Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Hi - I've been reading a lot on this forum - thank you all for your excellent advice and insider info. I have a question to follow-up on a number of other threads. I teach in California, and I have two colleagues who have been encouraging me to go into international teaching -- they both taught internationally for 10-15 years (one single, and the other with a spouse and 3 kids), and both returned to the U.S. about 6-9 years ago. They taught in Bangkok, Japan, and S Korea at Tier 1 schools, both saved about 50K each year, and both have invested wisely. They think that my kids and I would love the adventure of the international teaching/education experience, and they want to see me with a better financial situation than I am in now as a teacher in the U.S. I'm 51yo, I've been teaching private high school Theater and English for 13 years (before that I was involved professionally in theater as a director and an adjunct professor), I make $72K now (but living expenses are v. high in California), I have California teaching credentials and a PhD from Stanford, and my kids are 10 and 12yo. No trailing spouse. They say, Ohhh you'll be so desirable with your years of experience and your PhD, everyone will love you, it doesn't matter that you don't have IS teaching experience b/c you have so much other teaching and artistic experience, you'll be able to save 50K/year easy, your kids will love the education there, you'll be so happy for the next 10-15 years, you'll be able to retire comfortably, it will be amazing, etc. But from what I'm reading on the forum, things may have changed in IS since they returned to the States in terms of, well, everything -- housing allowance, tax-free, IS paying so well, flights home, competitiveness for jobs, even ageism, etc. It seems to me that my years of experience and my PhD and my kids will actually count against me b/c it will be too expensive for the school. It also seems that jumping into a high pay Tier 1 or Tier 2 school may not be as easy as it was when they did, and it also seems that I'd have to move around a bit, and that would be harder with/for my kids. I also can't make it to one of the job fairs internationally b/c of the expense and b/c of Covid. Of course there is no way to know the answers to my questions until I start the job search process! But I'm curious to know what you think -- are you in agreement with my colleagues? If not, what explains the differences in your opinions? (ie, have things changed since they returned?) Other thoughts? Thanks millions!
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Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Waverly,
with Stanford PhD, real-life experience, and decades in theatre, you will be surprised at interest. Do your due diligence. 50K now a year is a long shot, but 30 - 40K is doable, even with two kids. But you need a school with coin to invest in you. Kids if they are bring skills, won't be a deal breaker.
See what's out there - you already have a job you don't have to leave, so you can wait and wait until YOUR job opens and you get an offer.
with Stanford PhD, real-life experience, and decades in theatre, you will be surprised at interest. Do your due diligence. 50K now a year is a long shot, but 30 - 40K is doable, even with two kids. But you need a school with coin to invest in you. Kids if they are bring skills, won't be a deal breaker.
See what's out there - you already have a job you don't have to leave, so you can wait and wait until YOUR job opens and you get an offer.
Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
It really depends on which jobs are open when you are recruiting, and there are a limited number of schools that would allow for 50k in savings on one salary. But there are a lot of English teaching jobs out there, and even with two or three dependants, those gold-plated credentials will make you an absolute top candidate. But you are right to notice that the golden age of international teaching has passed. Globalization means there are droves of candidates searching for fewer and fewer jobs. The perks are fewer and the money is less. There are still great opportunities out there, but avoid moving overseas unless you have a great job offer.
Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Your qualifications, methods and living situation have a lots of pushes and pulls compared to others. I'll try and break them down below but I'm sure others will have different views.
Your methods (English + Theater): English is one of the most common methods and the best schools often look for proven results either in A-Levels, DP etc. Theater is more specialized and is probably your ticket into the better schools as you'll have to sell your ability to put on flashy shows which are a major selling point of the better schools. I have heard of some drama/theater teachers losing jobs after average shows at the end of the school year.
Your Qualifications: Have a PHD from a major university ironically more important for the schools that you won't be working at. So call perceived lower tier schools will often look at the qualifications of a teacher as a selling point to parents. At the better true international schools - they will look at your experience. Not having experience putting on a show at an international school can be seen as a drawback as there are some 'so-called' rockstar theater teachers which bounce between the better schools.
Living Situation: Being a single parent puts further pressure onto that parent. If something happens to one of your kids - your out of class until your kids are back as you are their sole carer. Add on top of that a theater position which has a LOT OF OUT OF WORK HOURS and having two dependents is a major negative. Some schools might employ you for having kids with a foreign face - but they don't often pay what your looking for. In the time of covid - having two kids is taking two paying positions for some schools in for-profit schools
Pay Situation: To be honest - there are only a handful of schools where a single teacher can SAVE $50 K USD a year with two traveling dependents. Many of these schools are not in the best location (think Saudi Arabia) and people often spend lots of money on travel for a reason. I can tell you that NO SCHOOL IN JAPAN allows a single person to save $50K a year with 2 dependents. Don't forget that many countries in asia have tuition as a taxable benefit which significantly cuts down on potential savings. The only thing which may allow you to earn more is if your position gives you a significant pay increase over a normal teacher.
So are you hireable? Yes - but the number of ME and Chinese schools offering you a position paying 30 - 45 K a year before tax will be large. Looking for which schools that would allow you to save your desired amount would be interesting.
Your methods (English + Theater): English is one of the most common methods and the best schools often look for proven results either in A-Levels, DP etc. Theater is more specialized and is probably your ticket into the better schools as you'll have to sell your ability to put on flashy shows which are a major selling point of the better schools. I have heard of some drama/theater teachers losing jobs after average shows at the end of the school year.
Your Qualifications: Have a PHD from a major university ironically more important for the schools that you won't be working at. So call perceived lower tier schools will often look at the qualifications of a teacher as a selling point to parents. At the better true international schools - they will look at your experience. Not having experience putting on a show at an international school can be seen as a drawback as there are some 'so-called' rockstar theater teachers which bounce between the better schools.
Living Situation: Being a single parent puts further pressure onto that parent. If something happens to one of your kids - your out of class until your kids are back as you are their sole carer. Add on top of that a theater position which has a LOT OF OUT OF WORK HOURS and having two dependents is a major negative. Some schools might employ you for having kids with a foreign face - but they don't often pay what your looking for. In the time of covid - having two kids is taking two paying positions for some schools in for-profit schools
Pay Situation: To be honest - there are only a handful of schools where a single teacher can SAVE $50 K USD a year with two traveling dependents. Many of these schools are not in the best location (think Saudi Arabia) and people often spend lots of money on travel for a reason. I can tell you that NO SCHOOL IN JAPAN allows a single person to save $50K a year with 2 dependents. Don't forget that many countries in asia have tuition as a taxable benefit which significantly cuts down on potential savings. The only thing which may allow you to earn more is if your position gives you a significant pay increase over a normal teacher.
So are you hireable? Yes - but the number of ME and Chinese schools offering you a position paying 30 - 45 K a year before tax will be large. Looking for which schools that would allow you to save your desired amount would be interesting.
Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
I’m wondering if you should reframe the question. Is it really about whether you can save $50,000 annually, or about whether you could save far more than you are currently, while having an amazing experience for you and your boys? The answer to that second question is a resounding yes.
Having two dependents will make it harder to get some jobs, true. And the PhD is a draw- a boon for some schools, a waste for others. Not attending a fair is not really an issue- there might not even be any in-person fairs this year anyway, and tons of interviews are done over Zoom these days. There are jobs out there that will give you a nice life and good savings. Go for it, cast your net widely, and look at any offers carefully to see what they would mean for you.
Having two dependents will make it harder to get some jobs, true. And the PhD is a draw- a boon for some schools, a waste for others. Not attending a fair is not really an issue- there might not even be any in-person fairs this year anyway, and tons of interviews are done over Zoom these days. There are jobs out there that will give you a nice life and good savings. Go for it, cast your net widely, and look at any offers carefully to see what they would mean for you.
Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Sid makes a great point that I think many people should seriously consider. Would it be better to consider saving $20-30K a year, living in a location you want to live in, at a school that you want to work at along with visiting places for holidays that you would like to travel to.
Saving 50K as a single parent with 2 dependent might allow for say - somewhere between 5-20 schools internationally that would allow this. Changing that to a slightly lower amount of 20-30K savings a year significantly would increase the number of schools on your potential radar.
There may be the main outlier school - but forget Western Europe. Taxes are high - but not as high as teacher demand in working here. I mentioned that there are no schools in Japan that would allow you to save 50K a year with 2 kids (Japan taxes tuition) but it's possible at two schools. The same is probably true at 2-4 schools in South Korea and 2 schools in Taiwan. 3-4 schools in Singapore are also probably the same.
One thing to seriously consider is being flexible with the year that you go overseas if you are focusing mainly in theater. There are not a large number of high quality theater teachers (say - compared to English teachers) but the jobs that come up are also less common.
For example - there may be 50-100 jobs that would allow you to save what you want as an English teacher each each - but specialist positions depends on the year. Some years you can count it one your fingers - other years its an embarrassment in riches.
I'm a Science teacher and have been to a number of fairs and Skype interviews. I've been to a fair one year and there were like 5 or so jobs that I was suitable for at a Bangkok fair (130+ schools) that year. Then I've gone to a London and a smaller fair in a secondary location and have ignored more that 5 interview requests. It depends on the year!
Do note that I'm happy that fairs are kind of dead and online fairs are not the future.
Saving 50K as a single parent with 2 dependent might allow for say - somewhere between 5-20 schools internationally that would allow this. Changing that to a slightly lower amount of 20-30K savings a year significantly would increase the number of schools on your potential radar.
There may be the main outlier school - but forget Western Europe. Taxes are high - but not as high as teacher demand in working here. I mentioned that there are no schools in Japan that would allow you to save 50K a year with 2 kids (Japan taxes tuition) but it's possible at two schools. The same is probably true at 2-4 schools in South Korea and 2 schools in Taiwan. 3-4 schools in Singapore are also probably the same.
One thing to seriously consider is being flexible with the year that you go overseas if you are focusing mainly in theater. There are not a large number of high quality theater teachers (say - compared to English teachers) but the jobs that come up are also less common.
For example - there may be 50-100 jobs that would allow you to save what you want as an English teacher each each - but specialist positions depends on the year. Some years you can count it one your fingers - other years its an embarrassment in riches.
I'm a Science teacher and have been to a number of fairs and Skype interviews. I've been to a fair one year and there were like 5 or so jobs that I was suitable for at a Bangkok fair (130+ schools) that year. Then I've gone to a London and a smaller fair in a secondary location and have ignored more that 5 interview requests. It depends on the year!
Do note that I'm happy that fairs are kind of dead and online fairs are not the future.
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Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Do you have a paid for house in California that you can rent out and count towards your savings? If so, you might be able to hit a big savings number though 50k is a stretch I think - maybe technically possible at the right school but your lifestyle would probably take too much of a hit. You would drop in at the top of the salary scale for a new hire (most are capped at 10 years exp for incoming hires), but it seems fewer and fewer schools are paying an extra amount for advanced degrees.
Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
I really appreciate all this advice! Especially @sid: "I’m wondering if you should reframe the question. Is it really about whether you can save $50,000 annually, or about whether you could save far more than you are currently, while having an amazing experience for you and your boys? The answer to that second question is a resounding yes." Looking at things from different angles is so smart. Actually, you have all helped me reframe the question, and that's the best kind of advice out there. Thank you!! Really grateful.
Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
One other thing to bear in mind is your age. Certainly in China, and also possibly the ME too, a lot of countries won't let you stay beyond 60 (or at least not without a lot of hassle.) If you're looking at covering your kids through university, then that is something to bear in mind.
Response
I agree with your colleagues under the following scenarios:
1) If you can jump right into an Elite tier IS in some regions you could with a modest lifestyle (difficult with 2 tween kids) save about USD$50K. The main problem with this is the entry cap, lower tier ISs generally put the cap at 5 years and upper tier ISs at 10 years, some are higher though.
2) If you spin yourself into leadership. You have a Ph.D. from Stanford, one of the Global Ivys in IE, there are ISs that will give you the keys based on that alone. Even lower tier ISs have salaries for executive leadership where you can save that. Senior leadership in mid and upper tier ISs would allow you to save that.
3) You use the IS and IE to get into the country and you supplement your savings with a side hustle. Community theater too private test prep and ESOL. You could make USD$50K combined with that.
Some issues to consider:
1) What will happen to your pension and retirement in CA if you leave before retirement age. You could be leaving a lot of coin on the table if you exit DE for IE now.
2) Ageism. You really need to be settled in an IS your comfortable with around 50. After that it just gets harder.
3) Typically ISs apply a 1:1 formula for employees and tuition/place waivers. Single parent, two school age kids with your resume youre going to read like a very expensive hire and you are to meet your goals.
4) The ISs that will be shooting for have really high production expectations. Thats a lot of non-contract hours and with two kids and your the sole caregiver those are logistical challenges.
I tend to disagree with @Sid, mainly because when you look at value of your pension youre probably already saving USD$30K-40K and nothing about your post indicates you dont enjoy your DS or where youre teaching now.
I do tend to agree that the current state of IE isnt the golden period youre colleagues describe.
1) If you can jump right into an Elite tier IS in some regions you could with a modest lifestyle (difficult with 2 tween kids) save about USD$50K. The main problem with this is the entry cap, lower tier ISs generally put the cap at 5 years and upper tier ISs at 10 years, some are higher though.
2) If you spin yourself into leadership. You have a Ph.D. from Stanford, one of the Global Ivys in IE, there are ISs that will give you the keys based on that alone. Even lower tier ISs have salaries for executive leadership where you can save that. Senior leadership in mid and upper tier ISs would allow you to save that.
3) You use the IS and IE to get into the country and you supplement your savings with a side hustle. Community theater too private test prep and ESOL. You could make USD$50K combined with that.
Some issues to consider:
1) What will happen to your pension and retirement in CA if you leave before retirement age. You could be leaving a lot of coin on the table if you exit DE for IE now.
2) Ageism. You really need to be settled in an IS your comfortable with around 50. After that it just gets harder.
3) Typically ISs apply a 1:1 formula for employees and tuition/place waivers. Single parent, two school age kids with your resume youre going to read like a very expensive hire and you are to meet your goals.
4) The ISs that will be shooting for have really high production expectations. Thats a lot of non-contract hours and with two kids and your the sole caregiver those are logistical challenges.
I tend to disagree with @Sid, mainly because when you look at value of your pension youre probably already saving USD$30K-40K and nothing about your post indicates you dont enjoy your DS or where youre teaching now.
I do tend to agree that the current state of IE isnt the golden period youre colleagues describe.
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Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Waverly, check out Dulwich College Beijing. They have a head of theatre arts job going...
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Re: Comment
PsyGuy wrote:
> The LW wont save USD$50K there.
Uh yes. Dulwich would pay $65000 for teachers with a MA and 8 years experience, plus 25000 in housing allowance. Yes youd pay 25% in taxes and that would leave 67500 in salary. Then youd pay 25% in taxes over the free tuition which then leaves you with 45000. Add the annual flight allowance for the three of you, and that would leave you with $51276.
Youd have to mitigate your housing costs somehow, something like boarding, etc. and you would have to eat lite but yes you could squeak out 50K in savings.
;-)
> The LW wont save USD$50K there.
Uh yes. Dulwich would pay $65000 for teachers with a MA and 8 years experience, plus 25000 in housing allowance. Yes youd pay 25% in taxes and that would leave 67500 in salary. Then youd pay 25% in taxes over the free tuition which then leaves you with 45000. Add the annual flight allowance for the three of you, and that would leave you with $51276.
Youd have to mitigate your housing costs somehow, something like boarding, etc. and you would have to eat lite but yes you could squeak out 50K in savings.
;-)
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Re: Senior teacher with a PhD and 2 kids - could I save 50K annually?
Just on the off chance some of you don't realize I'm referencing a recent post by @PsyGuy in my previous comment (this one: https://internationalschoolsreview.com/ ... 709#p61709):
No, you won't save 50,000 USD at Dulwich, but they do pay well so you'll save a good sum. However, Dulwich works you VERY hard, perhaps more than any of the other good ISs in Beijing. With two kids that you supposedly want to spend some time with, it might not be what you're looking for, even if the money is very decent (although not very close to your 50K in savings goal).
No, you won't save 50,000 USD at Dulwich, but they do pay well so you'll save a good sum. However, Dulwich works you VERY hard, perhaps more than any of the other good ISs in Beijing. With two kids that you supposedly want to spend some time with, it might not be what you're looking for, even if the money is very decent (although not very close to your 50K in savings goal).
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@Heliotrope
No, First youre assuming the SA data is right unlike in the previous topic the actual published salary data was available. Assuming youre values are accurate its still no. You cant save the housing allowance because you have to obtain housing and with that allowance single parent and two kids, a 3LDK youre going to use up that allowance. The same is true of the flight allowance, you cant save it because you need to travel. Tuition is also steep, assuming one child is in years 3-6 thats RMB¥269,000 and the other in years 7-9 thats RMB¥289,000 together thats ¥558,000 thats USD$86,728 add that to your USD$65,000 salary and USD$25,000 in housing and you have USD$176,728 in gross compensation at a 25% tax rate thats USD$44,182 in taxes subtract that from the USD$65K in salary and theres $20,818 in net salary. Thats before food, sundries, and everything else and you cant save USD$50K when you only have USD$20K.
Its not housing you have to mitigate (nor eating lite), its the cost of kids, specifically the 25% tax on over half a million RMB that comes out to USD$22K. Even if you scrap the tuition, send the kids to a local public/maintained DS youre still only looking at USD$44K. Even with TLR or an exception to the salary cap thats still before any other costs of living. Youre not saving USD$50K, youre not even saving $40K or $30K, more like USD$10K AND they will make you earn every coin.
No, First youre assuming the SA data is right unlike in the previous topic the actual published salary data was available. Assuming youre values are accurate its still no. You cant save the housing allowance because you have to obtain housing and with that allowance single parent and two kids, a 3LDK youre going to use up that allowance. The same is true of the flight allowance, you cant save it because you need to travel. Tuition is also steep, assuming one child is in years 3-6 thats RMB¥269,000 and the other in years 7-9 thats RMB¥289,000 together thats ¥558,000 thats USD$86,728 add that to your USD$65,000 salary and USD$25,000 in housing and you have USD$176,728 in gross compensation at a 25% tax rate thats USD$44,182 in taxes subtract that from the USD$65K in salary and theres $20,818 in net salary. Thats before food, sundries, and everything else and you cant save USD$50K when you only have USD$20K.
Its not housing you have to mitigate (nor eating lite), its the cost of kids, specifically the 25% tax on over half a million RMB that comes out to USD$22K. Even if you scrap the tuition, send the kids to a local public/maintained DS youre still only looking at USD$44K. Even with TLR or an exception to the salary cap thats still before any other costs of living. Youre not saving USD$50K, youre not even saving $40K or $30K, more like USD$10K AND they will make you earn every coin.