Bavarian International School
David, I'm not admin, just a teacher, but if was admin and saw your website I would not hire you in a million years. Yes, there is a place for teacher websites, but as a promotional tool, not an opportunity to gripe about past jobs. I think you are doing yourself an enormous amount of damage. The fact that you use your real name just exacerbates the damage.
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homeandaway
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:40 am
[quote="IAMBOG"]David, I'm not admin, just a teacher, but if was admin and saw your website I would not hire you in a million years. Yes, there is a place for teacher websites, but as a promotional tool, not an opportunity to gripe about past jobs. I think you are doing yourself an enormous amount of damage. The fact that you use your real name just exacerbates the damage.[/quote] Could not agree more. It was pretty foolish but David's actions and Higgsboson's comments are testimony to what the actions of international schools reduce teachers to doing. David felt so incensed by what had happened to him that he publicly slagged off the school. And Higgsboson freely admits that if the shoe fits, then he is going to take schools for all he can get. If that means interviewing, accepting a post and then taking off mid-contract or not coming out at all, then so be it. These schools only have themselves to blame. But you know what? They don't even care. They are a business and as a business they have contingency plans for all of this. They know that when they interview someone, leave them hanging and then finally offer them a job but with reduced contractual benefit that teachers are going to fly the coop and then they lean on existing teachers to cover the missing teacher's lessons, thereby avoiding paying the wages of one full teacher.
International schools will hire people with little experience or none, so that they can pay low wages, while fobbing off the good, experienced teachers with form letters saying, 'someone with greater experience and qualifications was found' which translates to 'someone with no experience and probably no teaching license was found so that we can pay them a lot less' maybe they will do what King George V in Hong Kong did to a friend of mine, interviewing him and then sending him an email saying they had hired someone else, which is their right to do, i agree. But they worded it 'we have found an excellent teacher. we are very fortunate'. He emailed them back saying that he was also an excellent teacher and could they tell him why exactly he was not hired to which they promptly ignored. that is par for the course as to how King George and ESF treat their teachers. There were deputy heads of school who had heart attacks at ESF because they were victimised by nasty and vicious staff and bosses.
Number 2. Tanglin Trust. Another bunch of losers. People I know who work/ed there say that they hire you to a two year contract but then by December, if you are not 'Tanglin' enough, you are summoned to a meeting, asked to explain yourself and then told that you will observed when you return from Xmas break. Wow! four months in to a 2 year deal, and you are already told you are not measuring up. Why hire a variety of teachers if you are too insecure to deal with a variety of personalities from various nationalities. You return in January, and oh boy! what a wonderful Xmas you must have had knowing the axe is hanging over your head and then, if/when you don't work out, they sack you immediately after the break, having observed two or three lessons, telling you it is time to 'help you move on with your career'. At the induction, the then Head of Secondary School, David Woods, an incredibly nasty piece of work, tells staff, that if you any have great ideas and stories from your last school, to not share them. They want to 'make you Tanglin' and that if your last school was so good, 'you should have bloody well stayed'. so that is the spiritual educational awakening you get at Tanglin Trust in Singapore.
Third, Bangkok Patana. Was at a job fair where I met two people who were really excited. they had an interview lined up at Patana. I saw them later on in the afternoon and they had faces that had completely dropped. Why? They read an email AFTER they had arrived in London and were told that the school had been urgently trying to contact them. They had cancelled their interviews as they said the jobs were no longer available. I bet they didn't get their flights and accommodation reimbursed. We stayed in touch and one of them applied for another position later that year. You think Patana would have had some remorse and said, 'ok, we are in a position to interview you this time.' But no, they got the insulting form letter response, 'other candidates with more experience, education, blah, blah, blah'
So good on your Higgsboson. And for the rest of you with bright eyes, bushy tails and notions that if you work hard and act decent, you will be rewarded, forget it. Listen to people who have been on the circuit for a while and observe what schools have reduced people like David Getling. I agree with Higgsboson though. I would not have put my name to it.
Find a job overseas, earn your tax-free income, teach your one club a week and enjoy your long holidays and free or subsidised apartment. Don't ask for professional development, don't expect a 'thank you', because it won't be coming. And for the record, I am not someone who has been sacked and have a cross to bear. But I am dismayed at the direction that international schools have taken and that is why I am not interested international education anymore. The schools are unethical, unprofessional and at times, downright nasty. You owe them NOTHING!
International schools will hire people with little experience or none, so that they can pay low wages, while fobbing off the good, experienced teachers with form letters saying, 'someone with greater experience and qualifications was found' which translates to 'someone with no experience and probably no teaching license was found so that we can pay them a lot less' maybe they will do what King George V in Hong Kong did to a friend of mine, interviewing him and then sending him an email saying they had hired someone else, which is their right to do, i agree. But they worded it 'we have found an excellent teacher. we are very fortunate'. He emailed them back saying that he was also an excellent teacher and could they tell him why exactly he was not hired to which they promptly ignored. that is par for the course as to how King George and ESF treat their teachers. There were deputy heads of school who had heart attacks at ESF because they were victimised by nasty and vicious staff and bosses.
Number 2. Tanglin Trust. Another bunch of losers. People I know who work/ed there say that they hire you to a two year contract but then by December, if you are not 'Tanglin' enough, you are summoned to a meeting, asked to explain yourself and then told that you will observed when you return from Xmas break. Wow! four months in to a 2 year deal, and you are already told you are not measuring up. Why hire a variety of teachers if you are too insecure to deal with a variety of personalities from various nationalities. You return in January, and oh boy! what a wonderful Xmas you must have had knowing the axe is hanging over your head and then, if/when you don't work out, they sack you immediately after the break, having observed two or three lessons, telling you it is time to 'help you move on with your career'. At the induction, the then Head of Secondary School, David Woods, an incredibly nasty piece of work, tells staff, that if you any have great ideas and stories from your last school, to not share them. They want to 'make you Tanglin' and that if your last school was so good, 'you should have bloody well stayed'. so that is the spiritual educational awakening you get at Tanglin Trust in Singapore.
Third, Bangkok Patana. Was at a job fair where I met two people who were really excited. they had an interview lined up at Patana. I saw them later on in the afternoon and they had faces that had completely dropped. Why? They read an email AFTER they had arrived in London and were told that the school had been urgently trying to contact them. They had cancelled their interviews as they said the jobs were no longer available. I bet they didn't get their flights and accommodation reimbursed. We stayed in touch and one of them applied for another position later that year. You think Patana would have had some remorse and said, 'ok, we are in a position to interview you this time.' But no, they got the insulting form letter response, 'other candidates with more experience, education, blah, blah, blah'
So good on your Higgsboson. And for the rest of you with bright eyes, bushy tails and notions that if you work hard and act decent, you will be rewarded, forget it. Listen to people who have been on the circuit for a while and observe what schools have reduced people like David Getling. I agree with Higgsboson though. I would not have put my name to it.
Find a job overseas, earn your tax-free income, teach your one club a week and enjoy your long holidays and free or subsidised apartment. Don't ask for professional development, don't expect a 'thank you', because it won't be coming. And for the record, I am not someone who has been sacked and have a cross to bear. But I am dismayed at the direction that international schools have taken and that is why I am not interested international education anymore. The schools are unethical, unprofessional and at times, downright nasty. You owe them NOTHING!
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:50 pm
international schools
Reading this forum really makes one aware of the disreputable schools (and teachers) that are out there. It's interesting that two of the schools that homeandaway mentioned, I've never heard of. I've been on the circuit for almost 20 years and in Asia. To be fair, it appears they may be British schools and that's not a group I know much about. For me, the message is to carefully research the schools and stick to the "top two tiers". (Please no more discussion on this - it's a mental rating system in which there is no shared ratings.)
By that same token, if teachers are going to act unprofessionally by doing runners then they can't expect to be considered by any schools but those that don't have a great reputation. If teachers stopped applying to the bad schools, perhaps the schools would have to change their ways.
I really can't blame schools for avoiding people who have an "us and them" attitude when it comes to work life. I currently work at a school that is filled with solid professionals who work well together, like kids and get the job done. The administration is supportive and the school just has a great "feel". I would be happy if my head didn't choose to hire someone who might add a difficult personality to the mix.
Those of you who need to start over, when you get your new job, keep your head down, work hard and don't make waves. Stick out the contract plus one more year if at all possible and then you'll soon be on track to move up the tier ladder in international schools. I know it would be rough but if your only option is a bottom of the pile school, I'd head back to your home country for some solid experience. At least you'd have legal protection.
By that same token, if teachers are going to act unprofessionally by doing runners then they can't expect to be considered by any schools but those that don't have a great reputation. If teachers stopped applying to the bad schools, perhaps the schools would have to change their ways.
I really can't blame schools for avoiding people who have an "us and them" attitude when it comes to work life. I currently work at a school that is filled with solid professionals who work well together, like kids and get the job done. The administration is supportive and the school just has a great "feel". I would be happy if my head didn't choose to hire someone who might add a difficult personality to the mix.
Those of you who need to start over, when you get your new job, keep your head down, work hard and don't make waves. Stick out the contract plus one more year if at all possible and then you'll soon be on track to move up the tier ladder in international schools. I know it would be rough but if your only option is a bottom of the pile school, I'd head back to your home country for some solid experience. At least you'd have legal protection.
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homeandaway
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:40 am
Re: international schools
[quote="overseasvet2"]
I really can't blame schools for avoiding people who have an "us and them" attitude when it comes to work life.
[/quote]
The schools are the ones who generate the 'us and them' attitude. Teachers follow this principle to survive at schools where it is blatantly obvious that loyalty provides nothing in the way of being treated decently. Which of the two schools have you not heard of. These are very big international schools in Asia and even though you only seem to teach in American schools I would have thought you would have heard of them.
In many ways I resent your 'us and them' comment and am heartily sick and tired of teachers that seem to jump to the defence of schools on the circuit that are continual examples of unethical workplaces. Great that you are at what seems to be a good school, but that doesn't mean that you school, or any other for that matter, has the right to steer clear of certain teachers simply because they have been around for a while, don't eat crap for breakfast, lunch and dinner served up by a 'good school' and for no other reason but continued survival, develop an 'us and them' attitude.
I really can't blame schools for avoiding people who have an "us and them" attitude when it comes to work life.
[/quote]
The schools are the ones who generate the 'us and them' attitude. Teachers follow this principle to survive at schools where it is blatantly obvious that loyalty provides nothing in the way of being treated decently. Which of the two schools have you not heard of. These are very big international schools in Asia and even though you only seem to teach in American schools I would have thought you would have heard of them.
In many ways I resent your 'us and them' comment and am heartily sick and tired of teachers that seem to jump to the defence of schools on the circuit that are continual examples of unethical workplaces. Great that you are at what seems to be a good school, but that doesn't mean that you school, or any other for that matter, has the right to steer clear of certain teachers simply because they have been around for a while, don't eat crap for breakfast, lunch and dinner served up by a 'good school' and for no other reason but continued survival, develop an 'us and them' attitude.
that is par for the course as to how King George and ESF treat their teachers. There were deputy heads of school who had heart attacks at ESF because they were victimised by nasty and vicious staff and bosses.
Everyone has their own experiences. That doesn't sound anything like the ESF that I work for. People work hard, but my no means would I call anyone a victim. I feel supported by my administrators and the other teachers, have plenty of opportunities for PD, and feel appreciated. I have not met one ESF teacher that I would classify as vicious. No place is perfect but I can recommend ESF in good conscience.
Everyone has their own experiences. That doesn't sound anything like the ESF that I work for. People work hard, but my no means would I call anyone a victim. I feel supported by my administrators and the other teachers, have plenty of opportunities for PD, and feel appreciated. I have not met one ESF teacher that I would classify as vicious. No place is perfect but I can recommend ESF in good conscience.
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homeandaway
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:40 am
[quote="DCgirl"]that is par for the course as to how King George and ESF treat their teachers. There were deputy heads of school who had heart attacks at ESF because they were victimised by nasty and vicious staff and bosses.
Everyone has their own experiences. That doesn't sound anything like the ESF that I work for. People work hard, but my no means would I call anyone a victim. I feel supported by my administrators and the other teachers, have plenty of opportunities for PD, and feel appreciated. I have not met one ESF teacher that I would classify as vicious. No place is perfect but I can recommend ESF in good conscience.[/quote]
Fine. Did you not ever read the national papers there when heads and deputy heads were documented as having serious health problems which came straight after teachers at some ESF schools got together to sign petitions and go on strike because they did agree with the appointment of a certain head teacher. So glad I never worked there but I know enough about schools in Asia.
Everyone has their own experiences. That doesn't sound anything like the ESF that I work for. People work hard, but my no means would I call anyone a victim. I feel supported by my administrators and the other teachers, have plenty of opportunities for PD, and feel appreciated. I have not met one ESF teacher that I would classify as vicious. No place is perfect but I can recommend ESF in good conscience.[/quote]
Fine. Did you not ever read the national papers there when heads and deputy heads were documented as having serious health problems which came straight after teachers at some ESF schools got together to sign petitions and go on strike because they did agree with the appointment of a certain head teacher. So glad I never worked there but I know enough about schools in Asia.
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higgsboson
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:13 am
[quote]lifeaintsobad quacks "You use the existence of unscrupulous schools as an excuse. You have made it clear that you are happy to lie and cheat, but say you do so because there are liars and cheats in the world."[/quote]
I don't need an excuse to do a runner just the urge to go someplace new. For what its worth though, I did start my overseas teaching career with the best of attitudes and intensions but quickly sussed it for what it was: a scam perpetrated largely against rich folk. So if a rich kid gets a little shit on him when I do a runner, that is too bad and its not my intention but honestly, I couldn't care less.
I've been doing runners for nearly 30 years now and I always mange to find a job, even ocassionally at a so-called top-tier school. What does that tell you about this life of ours? It screams of scam and the worst scammers aren't teachers like me just looking for a bit of fun and adventure but the schools that prey on both teachers and students.
I hold my ground: do them before they do you otherwise you'll just wish you had. And don't worry about employment - there are so many many many jobs out there!
Why, a few years back I went through THREE jobs in an 8 month period, each coming with a generous relocation allowance. I did THREE runner in one year from Europe to the Middle East to the Far East and then back home. I had enough cash for a down payment on a small house the bank had foreclosed on. The house belonged to some little old lady and she was tossed out into the streets to make way. I felt great! No regrets and certainly no fears that I wouldn't be able to find another job.
You right lifeaintsobad - life is good but only if you looked out for number and damn the schools and their damned uppity rich kids.
I don't need an excuse to do a runner just the urge to go someplace new. For what its worth though, I did start my overseas teaching career with the best of attitudes and intensions but quickly sussed it for what it was: a scam perpetrated largely against rich folk. So if a rich kid gets a little shit on him when I do a runner, that is too bad and its not my intention but honestly, I couldn't care less.
I've been doing runners for nearly 30 years now and I always mange to find a job, even ocassionally at a so-called top-tier school. What does that tell you about this life of ours? It screams of scam and the worst scammers aren't teachers like me just looking for a bit of fun and adventure but the schools that prey on both teachers and students.
I hold my ground: do them before they do you otherwise you'll just wish you had. And don't worry about employment - there are so many many many jobs out there!
Why, a few years back I went through THREE jobs in an 8 month period, each coming with a generous relocation allowance. I did THREE runner in one year from Europe to the Middle East to the Far East and then back home. I had enough cash for a down payment on a small house the bank had foreclosed on. The house belonged to some little old lady and she was tossed out into the streets to make way. I felt great! No regrets and certainly no fears that I wouldn't be able to find another job.
You right lifeaintsobad - life is good but only if you looked out for number and damn the schools and their damned uppity rich kids.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
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antitravolta
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:35 am
- Location: United States
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higgsboson
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:13 am
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David Getling
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:21 am
- Location: Enfield, UK
- Contact:
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homeandaway
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:40 am
[quote="David Getling"][quote="IAMBOG"]David, I'm not admin, just a teacher, but if was admin and saw your website I would not hire you in a million years. [/quote]
Of course, whether I might be able to deliver my subject well, or that students might enjoy being taught by me doesn't come into it :lol:[/quote]
Yes, but unfortunately you don't project yourself as someone who is able to deliver their subject well by creating that website and putting it one display to every school around the globe. No one is going to consider hiring someone that slags off other schools.
Of course, whether I might be able to deliver my subject well, or that students might enjoy being taught by me doesn't come into it :lol:[/quote]
Yes, but unfortunately you don't project yourself as someone who is able to deliver their subject well by creating that website and putting it one display to every school around the globe. No one is going to consider hiring someone that slags off other schools.
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David Getling
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:21 am
- Location: Enfield, UK
- Contact:
[quote="homeandaway"]Yes, but unfortunately you don't project yourself as someone who is able to deliver their subject well by creating that website and putting it one display to every school around the globe. No one is going to consider hiring someone that slags off other schools.[/quote]
I would love to know how this has any bearing on my ability to [i]deliver my subject well[/i].
What you call slagging off is an accurate report (with supporting documentation) of wrong doing. Yes, I'm sure schools that behave in a similar manner won't touch me with a barge pole, but the only thing a good school has to fear is that I'll write something nice about them.
I would love to know how this has any bearing on my ability to [i]deliver my subject well[/i].
What you call slagging off is an accurate report (with supporting documentation) of wrong doing. Yes, I'm sure schools that behave in a similar manner won't touch me with a barge pole, but the only thing a good school has to fear is that I'll write something nice about them.
You may have the ability to deliver your subject well, but you come across as not being able to fit in. You come across as not being a team player and somebody who, frankly, is going to be miserable. You also come across as someone who won't listen to advice from peers.
The fact that you are unable to see that your website is detrimental to your career and that you can't see that you need to separate the promotion of your skills and your personal gripes leads me to think you are socially inept.
I am a lowly teacher in my second year of teaching. If I think that, any admin viewing ISR or TES or your website are going to think the same. You are making yourself a pariah, and a very well-known one at that.
Nobody will give you the opportunity to show your ability, because they can't get over the other stuff.
[quote="David Getling"]the only thing a good school has to fear is that I'll write something nice about them.[/quote] Unfortunately, I don't think a good or bad school is going to give you that opportunity.
I feel for you, David, but you are your own worst enemy.
The fact that you are unable to see that your website is detrimental to your career and that you can't see that you need to separate the promotion of your skills and your personal gripes leads me to think you are socially inept.
I am a lowly teacher in my second year of teaching. If I think that, any admin viewing ISR or TES or your website are going to think the same. You are making yourself a pariah, and a very well-known one at that.
Nobody will give you the opportunity to show your ability, because they can't get over the other stuff.
[quote="David Getling"]the only thing a good school has to fear is that I'll write something nice about them.[/quote] Unfortunately, I don't think a good or bad school is going to give you that opportunity.
I feel for you, David, but you are your own worst enemy.