Hi,
With the recruiting season about to start, I was curious to hear peoples opinions on how BREXIT may impact the job market in Europe. With three potential pathways; leave with no-deal, leave with a deal or stay, there is a lot of uncertainty. Do you expect to see more openings this year, less, no change or something different?
Please try and keep this about the impact to the job market for teachers and not about personal political beliefs.
Brexit Impact on European Job Market
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
It already has made an impact.
With so many unknowns already a year ago, quite a few schools in the EU didn't make offers to UK passport holders, since they weren't sure it would be possible to get visas for them. They are also worried about being able to keep existing staff members, if the government decides against extending their visas.
Until the uncertainty changes to certainty, I predict many schools will continue recruiting with caution, hiring safe bets from other countries.
With so many unknowns already a year ago, quite a few schools in the EU didn't make offers to UK passport holders, since they weren't sure it would be possible to get visas for them. They are also worried about being able to keep existing staff members, if the government decides against extending their visas.
Until the uncertainty changes to certainty, I predict many schools will continue recruiting with caution, hiring safe bets from other countries.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
I'd imagine UK schools are being more careful about hiring EU passport holders for the same reason.
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Illiane_Blues
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
sid wrote:
> It already has made an impact.
> With so many unknowns already a year ago, quite a few schools in the EU
> didn't make offers to UK passport holders, since they weren't sure it would
> be possible to get visas for them. They are also worried about being able
> to keep existing staff members, if the government decides against extending
> their visas.
With the UK not in the EU anymore, wouldn't it be just as easy or difficult for mainland European schools to get visas for British teachers as it would be for North American teachers?
Or would a North American teacher be easier for schools?
> It already has made an impact.
> With so many unknowns already a year ago, quite a few schools in the EU
> didn't make offers to UK passport holders, since they weren't sure it would
> be possible to get visas for them. They are also worried about being able
> to keep existing staff members, if the government decides against extending
> their visas.
With the UK not in the EU anymore, wouldn't it be just as easy or difficult for mainland European schools to get visas for British teachers as it would be for North American teachers?
Or would a North American teacher be easier for schools?
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
That's the thing. We don't know if it will be easier, harder or the same as other passport holders. Until a deal (or even no deal) is actually in place, schools are hedging their bets just in case it's going to be harder.
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Illiane_Blues
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
Ah, ok. I thought it was just two groups: EU and non-EU. Thought UK teachers would just be in the non-EU group after no-deal Brexit, where North American teachers are already, so didn't think it might possibly be harder for UK teachers than for other passport holders.
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
I'll definitely not miss their grumpy, ever-complaining nature.
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
Illiane_Blues wrote:
> Ah, ok. I thought it was just two groups: EU and non-EU. Thought UK
> teachers would just be in the non-EU group after no-deal Brexit, where
> North American teachers are already, so didn't think it might possibly be
> harder for UK teachers than for other passport holders.
Individual countries make individual agreements with other individual countries. Or simply make rules when there is no agreement. Post brexit, some EU countries could take a punitive, unfriendly stance towards the UK, particularly if the UK makes it hard for that country’s nationals to remain in or enter the UK.
> Ah, ok. I thought it was just two groups: EU and non-EU. Thought UK
> teachers would just be in the non-EU group after no-deal Brexit, where
> North American teachers are already, so didn't think it might possibly be
> harder for UK teachers than for other passport holders.
Individual countries make individual agreements with other individual countries. Or simply make rules when there is no agreement. Post brexit, some EU countries could take a punitive, unfriendly stance towards the UK, particularly if the UK makes it hard for that country’s nationals to remain in or enter the UK.
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
fine dude wrote:
> I'll definitely not miss their grumpy, ever-complaining nature.
Trust me, the ever happy, "Everything Is Awesome!" attitude of a lot of American teachers grates even more.....
> I'll definitely not miss their grumpy, ever-complaining nature.
Trust me, the ever happy, "Everything Is Awesome!" attitude of a lot of American teachers grates even more.....
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
May make it easier for Irish teachers to get EU positions - no visa requirements.
Response
Brexit will actually improve the situation because then ISs will know what the issues are and what to do about them. An October exit allows ISs some time to figure out what the issues and work is going to be with current and future recruiting. The current situation of no one knowing hats going on and a possible extension to January 2020 the peak of IE recruiting is the more harmful.
I disagree ith @Sid, there wasnt a lot of impact last peak recruiting season, because the word out even though it wasnt chiseled in stone that recruiters and leadership were assuming as that it was going to get worked out and current offers ere valid and work/visa requirements were currently valid. There wasnt anything else to read into it. There wasnt much if any significant difference between prior years UK job appointments and last years.
There really isnt a third category of visa holders. Had the UK exited and it as the worse it would place UK ITs in the same non-EU category as US or other western passport holders. There is no Britan gets punished so it will be easier to hire US/AUS/CAN ITs over UK ones.
If the UK exists without a deal and UK ITs are considered the same as non-EU passport holders it very likely will be considerable a boon to Irish applicants.
I disagree ith @Sid, there wasnt a lot of impact last peak recruiting season, because the word out even though it wasnt chiseled in stone that recruiters and leadership were assuming as that it was going to get worked out and current offers ere valid and work/visa requirements were currently valid. There wasnt anything else to read into it. There wasnt much if any significant difference between prior years UK job appointments and last years.
There really isnt a third category of visa holders. Had the UK exited and it as the worse it would place UK ITs in the same non-EU category as US or other western passport holders. There is no Britan gets punished so it will be easier to hire US/AUS/CAN ITs over UK ones.
If the UK exists without a deal and UK ITs are considered the same as non-EU passport holders it very likely will be considerable a boon to Irish applicants.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Response
PsyGuy wrote:
> Brexit will actually improve the situation
NOBODY believes this.
>
> There really isnt a third category of visa holders. Had the UK exited and
> it as the worse it would place UK ITs in the same non-EU category as US or
> other western passport holders. There is no Britan gets punished so it will
> be easier to hire US/AUS/CAN ITs over UK ones.
The biggest problem is and remains the limbo of UK teachers in the EU and vice versa. However, UK teachers who fall under EU rules in other countries might need to get new visas. This process might take time even though Brexit happens overnight, and how each country deals with that is going to be different. It creates uncertainty, and nobody likes that. If a country decides to temporarily send back its British expats, a school with lots of UK teachers could be left with a skeleton staff. It's unlikely, but it's possible. This uncertainty might have made recruiters hesitate.
> Brexit will actually improve the situation
NOBODY believes this.
>
> There really isnt a third category of visa holders. Had the UK exited and
> it as the worse it would place UK ITs in the same non-EU category as US or
> other western passport holders. There is no Britan gets punished so it will
> be easier to hire US/AUS/CAN ITs over UK ones.
The biggest problem is and remains the limbo of UK teachers in the EU and vice versa. However, UK teachers who fall under EU rules in other countries might need to get new visas. This process might take time even though Brexit happens overnight, and how each country deals with that is going to be different. It creates uncertainty, and nobody likes that. If a country decides to temporarily send back its British expats, a school with lots of UK teachers could be left with a skeleton staff. It's unlikely, but it's possible. This uncertainty might have made recruiters hesitate.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
Yes, they do. If Brexit is the forgone outcome than the preference by everyone in IE is Brexit in October, rather than Brexit in January or some time later.
None of those issues were an concern or a thought back during peak recruiting season.
No, each country isnt going to do it differently, thats a lot of unique approaches and plans. Its going to be to outcomes, those countries that take a soft approach allowing ITs and other expats to remain for some transitional time and those countries that expel their UK expats abruptly. Brexit in October will fix that, it will dispel the limbo and the uncertainty, once Brexit is executed, then what happens is going to happen and ISs will be able to work with whatever options become available to them.
Yes, they do. If Brexit is the forgone outcome than the preference by everyone in IE is Brexit in October, rather than Brexit in January or some time later.
None of those issues were an concern or a thought back during peak recruiting season.
No, each country isnt going to do it differently, thats a lot of unique approaches and plans. Its going to be to outcomes, those countries that take a soft approach allowing ITs and other expats to remain for some transitional time and those countries that expel their UK expats abruptly. Brexit in October will fix that, it will dispel the limbo and the uncertainty, once Brexit is executed, then what happens is going to happen and ISs will be able to work with whatever options become available to them.
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Illiane_Blues
Re: Brexit Impact on European Job Market
Visas are issued for this year already so 19-20 won't be affected.
Choosing between Brexit in October 2019 or January 20200 then mainland school will prefer October. Gives more time to get agreements for the next academic year and just before main hiring season.
Any chance of Brexit not happening through second referendum or postponed a few years longer will be better though so preferable.
Choosing between Brexit in October 2019 or January 20200 then mainland school will prefer October. Gives more time to get agreements for the next academic year and just before main hiring season.
Any chance of Brexit not happening through second referendum or postponed a few years longer will be better though so preferable.
Reply
@Illiane_Blues
There could be a major issue, as UK ITs didnt need visas to work in other EU regions, they may have needed some kind of working papers or registration, etc. depending on the region, but thats not the same as a visa which depending on how Brexit is executed could have major significant problems.
Ye, if the choice is between Brexit and no Brexit, no Brexit is a lot more preferable in IE, but if Brexit is the outcome than having it executed in October is far better than in January.
There could be a major issue, as UK ITs didnt need visas to work in other EU regions, they may have needed some kind of working papers or registration, etc. depending on the region, but thats not the same as a visa which depending on how Brexit is executed could have major significant problems.
Ye, if the choice is between Brexit and no Brexit, no Brexit is a lot more preferable in IE, but if Brexit is the outcome than having it executed in October is far better than in January.