Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

MusicTravel30
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 8:52 am

Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by MusicTravel30 »

Hello everyone!

This year I have made the difficult choice to leave teaching. I have been in the field for 12 years and I have taught in the USA and four other countries. It has been an interesting journey but I feel burned out, like I don't have the energy for this anymore. I am looking at starting a business with my wife in her home country, we will try to run a hotel her father built.

I started to think about leaving the field in February and the feeling has intensified with each passing week. I sat down with my wife and told her how I felt in late March but I think she knew before I even opened my mouth. Thank goodness she was open to the idea of me leaving teaching. I would be a liar if I said I am not nervous, I am very scared but I am also hopeful and her support helps a lot!

As I said, this has been a difficult year. I have been observed for a grand total of TWENTY MINUTES. Yes, you read that right, 20 minutes between August and today. If this is my first year at the school, I don't understand how that is possible. I never got feedback on those 20 minutes either. I have pleaded with members of admin to come to one of my classes, stopping short of begging. I told them I want to improve, I want to be transparent and my door is always open. Give me 5 minutes warning, I don't care, COME! Come to my class, please! I tagged members of admin in google calendar. Nada. Why would a teacher so desperate for feedback receive nothing in return? I think around March I realized I was not going to get what I wanted, feedback, and I became more firm in my decision to leave the field.

I see the agony in the faces of teachers who have not been told, one way or the other, if they are coming back next year or not. I sense it in the air, it is a stressful atmosphere. I feel like it is very unfair that some teachers still don't know. The school started to offer contracts for next year (which starts in August) in March. Other teachers were offered in April, others in May but some still do not know! Not to sound selfish, but it has strengthened my resolve that I am making the correct choice. I don't have the patience to play that game, not anymore. No one really knows why contract renewals are done that way. Some think it is based on seniority but there is no evidence that is the case.

There is a lot more I could say, including a member of admin who is only negative with me but that is not the point of the post, despite my rantings. I would love to hear from ex-teachers. How was the transition out of teaching? What do you do now? What advice can you offer? Thank you for any advice you can give!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Perspective, your perceptive needs more perspective.

First, the experience you are having at this IS is just one experience across an entire spectrum of experiences. Youve been doing this for 12 years across 4 countries, surely this year this one IS is not emblematic for all of them?

Second, okay youre burned out now, but where you burned out before you started this position, or is it all bubbling over because of this position and this IS? Is the symptom of your angst the profession as a whole all 12 years of it, or is it this year and this IS? Changing professions may solve either cause of your problems, but you dont want to throw the baby out with the bathwater if its just this one IS and this one experience.

Third, are you sure your fears arent just showing you rationalizations as a defense and coping mechanism? I get it you have feelings, but I didnt hear you once mention the students, or the good times, or the warm fuzzy feelings youve gotten from being an IT, were there none of those in the last 12 years, what about this year? How do you feel exchanging those experiences and joys, for customer service in managing a hotel? I cant say I know, but I couldnt see how hotel management would in any way equate to the joys of teaching. People get into teaching because for all the poo they have to deal with, there are real joys in making a difference in a students life.

Fourth, perspective. Youre sounding needy about the whole observation issue. Whats the issue, they watched you for 20 minutes they didnt see any problems? Leadership moves into IE from DE for many of the same reasons that ITs do, one of them being tired of doing repetitive, senseless activities and tasks because someone in the DOE, LEA, or executive leadership says to fill your day with these activities. One of those is doing observations and informal evaluations and even formal evaluations of ITs that are basically doing the job. Part of being in IE leadership is getting to determine how you feel the pulse of your IS, and your faculty without having to senselessly document it ad nauseam. There are leaders who may disagree with that practice, but at least a leaders in IE has more freedom and autonomy to determine how they are going to manage their faculty and staff.

Fifth, no offense, but leaders have better things to do than attend to some IT nagging for observations and feed back on practice all the time. ISs are generally poorly resourced to mentor an IT, thats why its generally consensus of the major contributors that two years post credentialing in DE is the advised career pathway into IE. If they arent resourced to do it for new ITs who actually need it, why would they be able to do it for a career IT with a decade plus experience. I cant say whet they are thinking but the thought "whats with this guys hand holding" may have crossed their mind. It sounds like your fishing for praise and reassurance, and to be blunt about it, your leadership is not your therapist or MH professional.

Sixth, Yeah the contracts problem is an issue. Its two things either the IS is poorly organized, or the reality is the ISs leadership doesnt know who they want to come back and they may very well be exploring options for new hires, before giving the aforementioned ITs contract renewal. Yeah its pooey, experienced leadership know well before the end of the year who is a good fit and who isnt, and plan their recruiting efforts accordingly with what they are likely to be able to get. At a certain level of IE its not about getting what you want in an IT, its about choosing the least of all evils, and balancing the devil you know with the one you dont, and some leadership just have decision paralysis when deciding between nothing but undesirable options.

Seventh, not everyone you work with or for is going to be your friend or even like you. Recognize it for what it is, you have a personality conflict with a supervisor. Again, youve been doing this for 12 years either youve dealt with this before and move on, or its about time you have to deal with this, stay professional, do the best by your students and move on.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by shadowjack »

If you've been at 5 schools (minimum) in the last 12 years, you're doing it wrong. 2 and done is the kiss of death internationally. Try the hotel business, but if it isn't for you, look to start subbing in a GOOD local school, break your butt, then use that as either a springboard to a local hire contract (functions booked at the hotel, school visitors etc) or a contract elsewhere...
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

to and done is not the kiss of death or even anything close to it. Thats why contracts have dates, as long as you fulfill your contract and have a good reference you can bounce around IE as much as you want.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

Most ITs do only one contract at their first and second IS, and maybe their third. But after that, it does become a problem, although it depends on which caliber school you're looking at.
In my experience, the good schools will prefer it if you've stayed for more than one contract after your second or third school. They don't want to be just another two year stop on your travel itinerary.

Likewise, at this point in my career, if I'd hear that a certain school fires most ITs after two years, I wouldn't be interested in them either.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

It dosnt become a problem, as long as 1) You complete your contract. 2) Have a positive reference. 3) Have a reasonable response for the movement in an interview. There is no you have 2 or 3 contracts before you must somehow do more than your contract, or its doom and gloom or a kiss of death.
Doctor
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:28 am

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by Doctor »

shadowjack wrote:
> If you've been at 5 schools (minimum) in the last 12 years, you're doing it wrong.
> 2 and done is the kiss of death internationally. Try the hotel business, but if
> it isn't for you, look to start subbing in a GOOD local school, break your butt,
> then use that as either a springboard to a local hire contract (functions booked
> at the hotel, school visitors etc) or a contract elsewhere...

My longest stretch at any one school has been 5 years and I honestly regret having stayed that long. My next longest posting is my current one, which has been 3 years. For the other 20 odd years, they have ALL been "2 and done" or less. A few were less than a year.

Why is this wrong? The main perk of IST IMHO is the potential for so much and such varied travel.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> It dosnt become a problem, as long as 1) You complete your contract. 2)
> Have a positive reference. 3) Have a reasonable response for the movement
> in an interview. There is no you have 2 or 3 contracts before you must
> somehow do more than your contract, or its doom and gloom or a kiss of
> death.


I'm not saying doom & gloom, I'm saying that in my experience the better schools will prefer it if you have proven that you don't mind staying around for more than one contract.
If you're going for that kind of schools, it might be good to have a longer stint at a prior IS on your CV.
I'm not saying it's true for all schools on the circuit, but at my current school there's maybe one or two ITs who don't have a longer stint on their CVs.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Doctor

Agreed if you had to stay longer than 2 years your contract ould be longer than to years, and if your just going to sit and stay somewhere you could just as easily have stayed in DE in your HOR, one of if not they primary advantage of IE is the travel opportunities.

@Heliotrope

We disagree.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by shadowjack »

Doctor wrote:
> My longest stretch at any one school has been 5 years and I honestly regret having
> stayed that long. My next longest posting is my current one, which has been 3 years.
> For the other 20 odd years, they have ALL been "2 and done" or less. A few
> were less than a year.
>
> Why is this wrong? The main perk of IST IMHO is the potential for so much and such
> varied travel.

Doctor - the problem is if you want to work your way up to a recognized good school, rather than a hidden gem, then 2 and done over 3 or more contracts is not going to get you in the door, no matter how good you are. At 2 years you are value neutral to a school. At 3 years you are value added and become more so every year you stay beyond that.
secondplace
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Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by secondplace »

As a school if we were looking at two candidates that were very equal in terms of experience, references, 'fit' for our school etc. and one had completed four year stints at two schools, and the other two year stints at four schools, I would lean strongly towards the teacher who had stayed longer.

Why? Because their previous experience would suggest they are more likely to do the same and we would be building stability for the school.

Obviously this isn't guaranteed, but it would influence my preference.
Doctor
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:28 am

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by Doctor »

secondplace wrote:
> As a school if we were looking at two candidates that were very equal in terms of
> experience, references, 'fit' for our school etc. and one had completed four year
> stints at two schools, and the other two year stints at four schools, I would lean
> strongly towards the teacher who had stayed longer.
>
> Why? Because their previous experience would suggest they are more likely to do the
> same and we would be building stability for the school.
>
> Obviously this isn't guaranteed, but it would influence my preference.

I never have a problem getting jobs. Maybe I'm missing out on jobs at tier 1 schools and elite tier schools but that isn't my career goal. Two year contracts at a string of well paying tier 2 schools from one end of the planet to the other is a more attractive career goal for me then maximizing my earning potential and benefits at a tier 1 school.

Really how much better can the overall package be at a tier 1 school compared to a well paying tier 2 school? At the end of the day, it's a teachers salary. Teaching isn't a money profession and I have yet to meet a teacher who became one to get rich.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by Thames Pirate »

Doctor wrote:
>
> I never have a problem getting jobs. Maybe I'm missing out on jobs at tier 1 schools
> and elite tier schools but that isn't my career goal. Two year contracts at a string
> of well paying tier 2 schools from one end of the planet to the other is a more
> attractive career goal for me then maximizing my earning potential and benefits at a
> tier 1 school.
>
> Really how much better can the overall package be at a tier 1 school compared to a
> well paying tier 2 school? At the end of the day, it's a teachers salary. Teaching
> isn't a money profession and I have yet to meet a teacher who became one to get rich.

There are a lot of great, truly international and well-paying ISs that are considered Tier 2. In the long run the 2 year thing might hurt and staying third year once or twice might not be a bad idea--just to show you had the option--because there is a difference between 3 or 4 consecutive 2 year stints and 8 consecutive 2 year stints. The former might be getting into the game, "working your way up," etc. while the latter might be construed as being unable to keep a job because you aren't offered a new contract. At some point it might catch up to you and make it harder for you to get something. Then again, it might not. There are a lot of jobs out there, and if you are happy with what you are finding, great! But just something to keep in the back of your mind, even for the Tier 2s.

Schools are less likely to want to invest in someone they know for sure is going to be halfway out the door right after getting settled when they could find someone who is a lower risk of leaving after 2. It takes a few months to settle into a new place, and once you have decided to leave you are unlikely to be as invested as well--meaning schools only get January to January--one year--of your full investment. So for schools that can afford to be picky, this does become a factor in the long run.

But of course everyone needs to do what works for them and their goals, and if it's working for you, fantastic. Don't change just because people tell you that you should.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

None of that is accurate. While youre value neutral at 2 years to an IS given the cost of recruiting, if ISs anted more value positive they would offer only 3 or more year contracts to increase their value. You can absolutely get in the door at top tier ISs with 2 year contracts, you can get into a top tier IS with no IE experience at all. The idea you have to stay longer at an IS to prove something is fear mongering smoke and mirrors by leadership that want to reduce their cost of attrition and maturation.
The reference letter is what shows you were eligible for renewal and rehire. Thats what you need: 1) You complete your contract. 2) Have a positive reference. 3) Have a reasonable response for the movement in an interview.

Differences between elite tier and second tier in salary and comp can be substantial.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by Thames Pirate »

When I say you can get in without "working your way up," it's wrong. When PsyGuy says it, it's accurate.

Schools want the option to drop you as much as you want the option to drop them. Staying the extra year says you had the option to stay on AND are willing to make commitments/see things through/aren't just bouncing around aimlessly. But of course it's completely optional and, like I said, you can get nice jobs, particularly off the beaten track, without it. It's just something to keep in the back of your mind, particularly if offers start drying up after a few gigs.
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