I would be much obliged if I could take a minute of your time and give me your expert opinion on, for myself is, an important issue. My credentials are:
a. history BA
-22 undergraduate biology credits
-20 undergraduate chemistry credits
-10 physics credits
-8 calculus credits
d. pharmacy doctorate (20 chemistry [mostly pharmacodynamic and kinetics], 10 biology credits; 90 therapeutic and medication therapy credits)
e. masters in secondary education with biology, chemistry and history credentials
I'm seriously contemplating making the switch from pharmacy to education, but I am having trouble getting a definitive, informed opinion on my competitiveness as a chemistry/biology teacher, in the context of not having a degree in chemistry or biology, but having several undergraduate credits in chemistry (20 credits) and biology (22 credits), and several graduate biology (10) and chemistry (10) credits in pharmacy doctorate program (of which I hold the degree). (The pharmacy doctorate also has many therapeutic courses about disease states and medication therapy, which I also do not know how it will be perceived.)
The prefix for the pharmacy courses are PHM. I feel that much science was covered in that doctorate degree. The only thing a chem BA or a Bio BA would have in addition to my degree is physical, - chemistry and botany, zoology, more lab work for biology.
My question is ultimately: Would a doctorate in pharmacy be considered equivalent, enhanced, or less than a chemistry or biology degree in regards to teaching chemistry or biology from an HR point of view, internationally and stateside?
Would this put me at a disadvantage to a candidate with a BA in chem/bio or masters in chem/bio? How would the pharmacy doctorate be perceived? How would several years working as a pharmacist intern be perceived? What would an HR viewpoint be in this matter?
(Please make these determinations apart from the factor of years of experience, from which I understand trumps any degree?) Thank you for your time. It is most appreciated!
Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
As far as your experience goes the Physical chemistry background might be important for teaching DP Chemistry but the Zoology (and maybe the botany) wouldn't for DP Biology. That said clearly learning the subject knowledge would not be an issue. In my opinion the flexibility you would give school (especially small ones) means that if anything you would be at an advantage over contemporaries with a single subject degree. Just a point - in most international schools there is an expectation/requirement for science teachers to be able and willing to teach all three sciences to the end of G10 (Pre AP,IBDP). Your experience as a pharmacist can be spun as an advantage as you can build in real world situations to your teaching where you have used what you have learned.
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
To clarify, when you mention 'credentials', do you mean you have a teaching certificate? This point might be vital.
In addition, do you have teaching experience?
If and when you move to teaching, expect to be applying for positions as new teacher (unless I missed the part with experience). It will be a challenge to find a position overseas - schools generally look for applicants with at least 2 years FT experience before they go overseas; schools willing to accept less may well be schools of lower quality and present tougher teaching challenges.
Do not expect to teach older students, at least at first. With your unorthodox credential, as you put it, and lack of experience, an administrator would be taking a huge risk giving you DP or AP classes. Expect to first prove yourself with grades 6-10.
Your best bet may be smaller schools, where a single teacher, or a pair, does all the science courses. Such schools often have a harder time finding a willing teacher, so you could be in with a chance.
Recruiters don't usually scour college transcripts to see what courses you took. It is normal to look only at the actual degree. So use your personal statement or cover letter to explain that you have significant academic experience with subjects x, y and z. Do not go into credit hours. With a pharmacy degree, it'll be obvious that you have lots of bio and chem experience.
In addition, do you have teaching experience?
If and when you move to teaching, expect to be applying for positions as new teacher (unless I missed the part with experience). It will be a challenge to find a position overseas - schools generally look for applicants with at least 2 years FT experience before they go overseas; schools willing to accept less may well be schools of lower quality and present tougher teaching challenges.
Do not expect to teach older students, at least at first. With your unorthodox credential, as you put it, and lack of experience, an administrator would be taking a huge risk giving you DP or AP classes. Expect to first prove yourself with grades 6-10.
Your best bet may be smaller schools, where a single teacher, or a pair, does all the science courses. Such schools often have a harder time finding a willing teacher, so you could be in with a chance.
Recruiters don't usually scour college transcripts to see what courses you took. It is normal to look only at the actual degree. So use your personal statement or cover letter to explain that you have significant academic experience with subjects x, y and z. Do not go into credit hours. With a pharmacy degree, it'll be obvious that you have lots of bio and chem experience.
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
Thanks, Sid. I am aware the first position will be lackluster and that experience is paramount. I will take it in stride. (I used to work for NOVA Japan, so I've "seen things you wouldn't believe"--Blade Runner.)
I am interested in finding out if, down the road several years, and in the position to apply to a gainful tier one school, my lack of a degree in biology or chemistry will automatically put me in a reject pile or, at the least, put me at a disadvantage. From what you say, recruiters are apt to only look at degree or course listing, e.g. biology, which all of my graduate credits are listed as PHM or pharmacy? I am reiterating this point because I have discovered that post-secondary education is pendantic in aligning degree for credential, i.e. chemistry masters for a chemistry junior college teacher.
In the U.S., several states only give a Praxis test to get certified, as opposed to other states that require a degree equivalent, which is what I have, making the value of credentials in the U.S. vary considerably. Again my credential degree equivalents are biology, chemistry and history.
P.S. Would the pharmacy doctorate be considered a doctorate in relation to schools' step scales? This seems to be a contentious issue from those I have queried.
Thanks!
I am interested in finding out if, down the road several years, and in the position to apply to a gainful tier one school, my lack of a degree in biology or chemistry will automatically put me in a reject pile or, at the least, put me at a disadvantage. From what you say, recruiters are apt to only look at degree or course listing, e.g. biology, which all of my graduate credits are listed as PHM or pharmacy? I am reiterating this point because I have discovered that post-secondary education is pendantic in aligning degree for credential, i.e. chemistry masters for a chemistry junior college teacher.
In the U.S., several states only give a Praxis test to get certified, as opposed to other states that require a degree equivalent, which is what I have, making the value of credentials in the U.S. vary considerably. Again my credential degree equivalents are biology, chemistry and history.
P.S. Would the pharmacy doctorate be considered a doctorate in relation to schools' step scales? This seems to be a contentious issue from those I have queried.
Thanks!
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jesatlarge
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:31 am
- Location: China
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
It is quite likely that your PhD will be given full salary step credit, as well it should. Many (most?) schools are quite easy to please in this regard, either requiring only a look at the transcript, or maybe even taking you at your word. I have taught at three IS and all have given me Phd credit for my US JD degree,
Don't know if it is still true, but 8-9 years ago, the state of Florida would certify you in your initial field thru a review of your college transcripts, requiring a certain number of UG credits in order to get this initial certification. But you still had to pass the teacher certification (Praxis) in that field. But after this, you could challenge the Praxis exam in any field, and if you passed, Florida would add this to your certification regardless of any coursework in that area. I added PE, English and Math (MS and HS) thru this method. PS.these exams are pretty easy.
Don't know if it is still true, but 8-9 years ago, the state of Florida would certify you in your initial field thru a review of your college transcripts, requiring a certain number of UG credits in order to get this initial certification. But you still had to pass the teacher certification (Praxis) in that field. But after this, you could challenge the Praxis exam in any field, and if you passed, Florida would add this to your certification regardless of any coursework in that area. I added PE, English and Math (MS and HS) thru this method. PS.these exams are pretty easy.
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
Whether your PhD will count will be individual to the schools. Many will be sympathetic, but others are very strict that any degree must be in either teaching or the subject taught, so then it becomes a question of whether the school considers Pharm aligned with Chem or whatever you're teaching.
As for whether down the road you can teach in better schools, probably yes you can. Start wherever you can, prove yourself, and work your way into it. Once you have the experience, it's much easier to convince new schools to take a chance on you, as long as you have the teaching certificate I mentioned before. (Do you have one? If not, you will find it very hard to get a post.) The tricky bit will be with certain countries (or schools) that have laws about acceptable qualifications for teachers. Turkey comes to mind - unless things have changed, you must have a degree in the subject you'll be teaching, and with your CV, that is simply not a requirement you can meet, so the whole country is out. Individual schools sometimes, but rarely, have the same rule even if the country doesn't.
As for whether down the road you can teach in better schools, probably yes you can. Start wherever you can, prove yourself, and work your way into it. Once you have the experience, it's much easier to convince new schools to take a chance on you, as long as you have the teaching certificate I mentioned before. (Do you have one? If not, you will find it very hard to get a post.) The tricky bit will be with certain countries (or schools) that have laws about acceptable qualifications for teachers. Turkey comes to mind - unless things have changed, you must have a degree in the subject you'll be teaching, and with your CV, that is simply not a requirement you can meet, so the whole country is out. Individual schools sometimes, but rarely, have the same rule even if the country doesn't.
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Rhysboy
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
I am by no means an expert on this but here's my 2 pennies worth.
You original degree is in history, which may put off some potential recruiters. It's not uncommon to see science teachers teaching outside their major (I have an environmental science major, but my teaching license is in chemistry), but you rarely see a science teacher who has a history degree.
Having said that, your other qualifications are certainly impressive and I'm sure that you will find a teaching position.
One question you haven't yet answered is whether you have a teaching license or credential which will be a deal breaker for most schools.
You original degree is in history, which may put off some potential recruiters. It's not uncommon to see science teachers teaching outside their major (I have an environmental science major, but my teaching license is in chemistry), but you rarely see a science teacher who has a history degree.
Having said that, your other qualifications are certainly impressive and I'm sure that you will find a teaching position.
One question you haven't yet answered is whether you have a teaching license or credential which will be a deal breaker for most schools.
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
Your license is in chem, you have a PHd. Your only issue seems to be that it has been a while since you have been in a classroom, and that you are not conversant on any of the 3 big syllabus.
Personally I often wonder what the heck do we actually remember from our undergrad days? Not a ton! Everyone knows this, so your PHd speaks loudest. It might not get you into one of the world colleges right off the bat (example only), but plenty of schools would talk to you. Find a decent one with IB, get some experience and have a nice career. Good luck!
Personally I often wonder what the heck do we actually remember from our undergrad days? Not a ton! Everyone knows this, so your PHd speaks loudest. It might not get you into one of the world colleges right off the bat (example only), but plenty of schools would talk to you. Find a decent one with IB, get some experience and have a nice career. Good luck!
Re: Perceptions of HR/principals on Unorthodox Credentials
jesatlarge wrote:
> It is quite likely that your PhD will be given full salary step credit, as
> well it should. Many (most?) schools are quite easy to please in this
> regard, either requiring only a look at the transcript, or maybe even
> taking you at your word. I have taught at three IS and all have given me
> Phd credit for my US JD degree,
>
> Don't know if it is still true, but 8-9 years ago, the state of Florida
> would certify you in your initial field thru a review of your college
> transcripts, requiring a certain number of UG credits in order to get this
> initial certification. But you still had to pass the teacher certification
> (Praxis) in that field. But after this, you could challenge the Praxis
> exam in any field, and if you passed, Florida would add this to your
> certification regardless of any coursework in that area. I added PE,
> English and Math (MS and HS) thru this method. PS.these exams are pretty
> easy.
Thank you for the information. Was the mere attainment of your "PE, English and Math..." credentials sufficient to be hired to teach them at an international school? I believe PsyGuy mentioned that, in his opinion, an administrator would be taking a chance on a candidate's ability to teach a subject with only a credential.
> It is quite likely that your PhD will be given full salary step credit, as
> well it should. Many (most?) schools are quite easy to please in this
> regard, either requiring only a look at the transcript, or maybe even
> taking you at your word. I have taught at three IS and all have given me
> Phd credit for my US JD degree,
>
> Don't know if it is still true, but 8-9 years ago, the state of Florida
> would certify you in your initial field thru a review of your college
> transcripts, requiring a certain number of UG credits in order to get this
> initial certification. But you still had to pass the teacher certification
> (Praxis) in that field. But after this, you could challenge the Praxis
> exam in any field, and if you passed, Florida would add this to your
> certification regardless of any coursework in that area. I added PE,
> English and Math (MS and HS) thru this method. PS.these exams are pretty
> easy.
Thank you for the information. Was the mere attainment of your "PE, English and Math..." credentials sufficient to be hired to teach them at an international school? I believe PsyGuy mentioned that, in his opinion, an administrator would be taking a chance on a candidate's ability to teach a subject with only a credential.