Dilemna/Questions....
Dilemna/Questions....
So I sense an offer is forthcoming from Hisar School (http://www.hisarschool.k12.tr) in Istanbul. I am scheduled for my 3'rd and final interview later in the week. I am excited about this school and location. I am also new to being an IS teacher - but have been in education for 15 years in public schools in the US. A few concerns - why hasn't this school been reviewed on ISR? I can't find hardly any info. on them. Is this a good or bad thing? Secondly, according to the Search profile on this school, the $ isn't all that great. I know Turkey isn't a high paying area, but the housing/moving package isn't bad. Hence my question, is it common to negotiate salaries with IS's (within reason of course)? I guess I am used to the US school system - where the salary chart says it all. Any info. appreciated.
it never hurts to ask
If you feel the money is low or there is a concern about housing you should ask and be open to their response. My friend was just offered a job with shared housing. This was a deal breaker for her. She asked and they offered her single housing. She would have turned the job down over this issue. You have to decide if it is a deal breaker or just a wish list item. Sometimes giving the best candidate a little extra is better than starting all over searching for a new candidate.
As far as reviews I am going to a school with no reviews and have the same question about why no reviews? Some schools are either new or perhaps people in general are satisfied and not super happy or super down on their schools.
I have heard good things about Turkey and want to travel their. Many of my friends have been there this past year and loved it. It is very Muslim though so be prepared for 4 am prayer calls (plus 4 more through out the day) and cultural differences if you are not muslim. Not necessarily good or bad differences but adjustment to our western liberal thinking.
As far as reviews I am going to a school with no reviews and have the same question about why no reviews? Some schools are either new or perhaps people in general are satisfied and not super happy or super down on their schools.
I have heard good things about Turkey and want to travel their. Many of my friends have been there this past year and loved it. It is very Muslim though so be prepared for 4 am prayer calls (plus 4 more through out the day) and cultural differences if you are not muslim. Not necessarily good or bad differences but adjustment to our western liberal thinking.
Prior post
he school and admin reviews tend to be a "dumping" place for upset, frustrated to vent about their negative experience. In that sense "no review" is about as good an endorsement as your going to find.
You find 4 type of posts on this forum:
1) Is the truly positive teacher review. Pretty rare, and usually short. When teachers have good things to say they tend to keep them short.
2) Is the "Horror Story". These you see pretty often and repeatedly for a school. Usually its year after year about bad things at the school, and how horrible it was, and how everyone left, or some other bad experience.
3) Is the "Deal Breaker" this review goes something like "the kids were great, or the people in the community wonderful, but....", which typically was an OK or even good school but there was one or two things that just made the job a bad experience. Some of these may not even be the schools fault or may be out of there control, etc. Usually these posts read like a line by comment on all or most of the evaluation criteria, they also tend to be long and -.
4) Is the "Shill", this is the post that comes after a bad review or a couple bad reviews, and reads almost like a brochure or sales pitch for the school, and have the "tone" that they were written by someone at the school (like an admin, owner, secretary, assistant). Basically, its the school trying to influnce their own review. ISR states several times that despite reviews being anonymous you have to read them for the overall tone, to get a sense of the authors intent.
Schools generally have two approaches to compensation either they have a 1) Public/Open pay scale/salary ladder, etc. In which case the school determines the contributing factors (usually years of experience and degree level) and your salary is what ever that box says. There can be adjustments/supplements for extra duty assignments, etc. The point of this scale is that everyone with a certain category makes the same. Its "equal" if not fair (fair in my opinion is actually pretty subjective). This is a lot like the "no hassle" car dealership. The price is clearly published and thats just "how much it is".
In the second type 2): Negotiated/Closed (Private tends to be avoided, but still used) you negotiate or discuss a compensation package. This can take several forms in itself, the two most common are the face to face negotiation, usually over the phone or Skype where you politely try to sell your value to the head, and they try to get you as cheaply as possible. The second most common type is the "letter" type which either occurs with the head, or more often with HR, and involves a series of email exchanges. Where they make an initial offer, you counter offer, they "check with the boss" then they counteroffer, and back an forth until you stop seeing progress/change in the offers happening. This experience is a lot more like the traditional "used car" buy experience, where your essentially haggling.
In my experience the open/public approach is the most popular, for two reasons (and different situations). The better schools are interested in fairness, equality and simplicity, its makes payroll easier (especially at bigger schools, which also tend to be the better schools). The second reason, is in schools that really dont care about the quality of their teachers, and they just want the cheapest body in the classroom they can get. They know they pay peanuts, and they dont really care, because anyone whos a decent teacher wouldnt teach there anyway, and likely has better offers.
The Closed/negotiated salary scale is usually found at 2nd tier schools all over the globe, who are usually young schools, have small enrollments, or constant turn around in faculty. For them minimizing costs is very important, as many teachers simply dont stay longer then their initial two year contract before moving on, so investing in faculty is a lost cause for them. Lastly, they just have more of a "paycheck to paycheck" mentality, they dont know what their enrollment will be in the future and with a small school it doesnt take much change in enrollment before they are over budget. For them a good teacher at less cost is better then a great teacher who is more expensive.
My advice to teachers, is that if there is nothing special about your qualifications, then you want the open/public type of compensation determination. If you have something thats special or "adds real value" (not to be confused with perceived value, like your "just a super great teacher") then your likely to benefit from a closed/negotiated compensation package, since the assumption is that you bring more "value" to the table then a comparable teacher.
Trends i see, is that when it comes to closed/negotiated packages, woman tend to get the face to face approach (typically against an assertive male), on the assumption that woman are less comfortable with conflict, and will cave to negotiation stress quickly (there are a couple heads ive met who were proven VERY incorrect in that assumption). Men tend to get the letter exchange typically with what you would infer is a younger female contact at the schools HR department. The assumption that the intermediary (the HR contact) is just the messenger, and little old them has no power to do anything, except relay your demands to the boss. men tend to be less aggressive, in those situation, as they are indoctrinated to yield ld to the female gender, and to exercise restraint when confronted with an inferior opponent.
You find 4 type of posts on this forum:
1) Is the truly positive teacher review. Pretty rare, and usually short. When teachers have good things to say they tend to keep them short.
2) Is the "Horror Story". These you see pretty often and repeatedly for a school. Usually its year after year about bad things at the school, and how horrible it was, and how everyone left, or some other bad experience.
3) Is the "Deal Breaker" this review goes something like "the kids were great, or the people in the community wonderful, but....", which typically was an OK or even good school but there was one or two things that just made the job a bad experience. Some of these may not even be the schools fault or may be out of there control, etc. Usually these posts read like a line by comment on all or most of the evaluation criteria, they also tend to be long and -.
4) Is the "Shill", this is the post that comes after a bad review or a couple bad reviews, and reads almost like a brochure or sales pitch for the school, and have the "tone" that they were written by someone at the school (like an admin, owner, secretary, assistant). Basically, its the school trying to influnce their own review. ISR states several times that despite reviews being anonymous you have to read them for the overall tone, to get a sense of the authors intent.
Schools generally have two approaches to compensation either they have a 1) Public/Open pay scale/salary ladder, etc. In which case the school determines the contributing factors (usually years of experience and degree level) and your salary is what ever that box says. There can be adjustments/supplements for extra duty assignments, etc. The point of this scale is that everyone with a certain category makes the same. Its "equal" if not fair (fair in my opinion is actually pretty subjective). This is a lot like the "no hassle" car dealership. The price is clearly published and thats just "how much it is".
In the second type 2): Negotiated/Closed (Private tends to be avoided, but still used) you negotiate or discuss a compensation package. This can take several forms in itself, the two most common are the face to face negotiation, usually over the phone or Skype where you politely try to sell your value to the head, and they try to get you as cheaply as possible. The second most common type is the "letter" type which either occurs with the head, or more often with HR, and involves a series of email exchanges. Where they make an initial offer, you counter offer, they "check with the boss" then they counteroffer, and back an forth until you stop seeing progress/change in the offers happening. This experience is a lot more like the traditional "used car" buy experience, where your essentially haggling.
In my experience the open/public approach is the most popular, for two reasons (and different situations). The better schools are interested in fairness, equality and simplicity, its makes payroll easier (especially at bigger schools, which also tend to be the better schools). The second reason, is in schools that really dont care about the quality of their teachers, and they just want the cheapest body in the classroom they can get. They know they pay peanuts, and they dont really care, because anyone whos a decent teacher wouldnt teach there anyway, and likely has better offers.
The Closed/negotiated salary scale is usually found at 2nd tier schools all over the globe, who are usually young schools, have small enrollments, or constant turn around in faculty. For them minimizing costs is very important, as many teachers simply dont stay longer then their initial two year contract before moving on, so investing in faculty is a lost cause for them. Lastly, they just have more of a "paycheck to paycheck" mentality, they dont know what their enrollment will be in the future and with a small school it doesnt take much change in enrollment before they are over budget. For them a good teacher at less cost is better then a great teacher who is more expensive.
My advice to teachers, is that if there is nothing special about your qualifications, then you want the open/public type of compensation determination. If you have something thats special or "adds real value" (not to be confused with perceived value, like your "just a super great teacher") then your likely to benefit from a closed/negotiated compensation package, since the assumption is that you bring more "value" to the table then a comparable teacher.
Trends i see, is that when it comes to closed/negotiated packages, woman tend to get the face to face approach (typically against an assertive male), on the assumption that woman are less comfortable with conflict, and will cave to negotiation stress quickly (there are a couple heads ive met who were proven VERY incorrect in that assumption). Men tend to get the letter exchange typically with what you would infer is a younger female contact at the schools HR department. The assumption that the intermediary (the HR contact) is just the messenger, and little old them has no power to do anything, except relay your demands to the boss. men tend to be less aggressive, in those situation, as they are indoctrinated to yield ld to the female gender, and to exercise restraint when confronted with an inferior opponent.