I currently work in Germany for SCE, my wife is currently a full-time Mum/hw. In the not too distant future (2-4 yrs) we will leave Germany with the options of either returning to the UK or staying overseas.
What are the work options for a non-teaching spouse, assuming I can get a job in Thailand or Malaysia (preferences). I am trying to weigh up the saving potential for UK or o/seas, bearing in mind I would not be earning the teachers pension. Some figures would be great!
Many thanks
Non teaching spouse employment
Asia
Saving potential in Thailand and Malaysia can be very high. Especially when you consider that housing is included in your compensation package. It really all depends where you are though. A school like ISB, Patanya, Harrow would make that an easy answer. The lessor tier 2 schools might allow you to live well, but youll whatever you save will be little more then vacation money once you leave (if you leave). Its not uncommon for people on pensions and retirement to retire in Thailand. if you have the time and years to dedicate you could eventually work your way up to an elite school in Thailand.
There are basically only a couple things a trailing spouse can do (that they would want to do).
1) ESL teaching.
2) Clerical staff position at the school you work at (happens all the time).
3) Start own business.
There are some other options but without Thai language proficiency they are pretty much low wage jobs. I know one woman that was a nanny and even though she got paid more then a thai, it was pitiful wages.
There are basically only a couple things a trailing spouse can do (that they would want to do).
1) ESL teaching.
2) Clerical staff position at the school you work at (happens all the time).
3) Start own business.
There are some other options but without Thai language proficiency they are pretty much low wage jobs. I know one woman that was a nanny and even though she got paid more then a thai, it was pitiful wages.
Yes
Thanks Ichiro, yes i meant working your way around the circuit to eventually an elite school in Thailand as an overseas hire. Most schools have a similar practice, since if you move from one school to another in the same locality you are really a local hire. Of course some schools make exceptions and some regions are different. I did not know though that it was an actual "understanding" among BKK schools. Of course some schools make exceptions and some regions are different.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
"Elite" status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Lastly, elite doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.
For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.
"Elite" status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).
Lastly, elite doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Thanks for that you two.
From what I can gather, it's best to get into a top tier school first time out and then you don't have to worry about moving onto local hire rate further down the line? I'm sure the competition is fierce, especially for someone with a non-teaching spouse and 2 children, even if I am Maths.
From what I can gather, it's best to get into a top tier school first time out and then you don't have to worry about moving onto local hire rate further down the line? I'm sure the competition is fierce, especially for someone with a non-teaching spouse and 2 children, even if I am Maths.
Hi Ichiro,
interesting comment about a "gentleman's agreement" about local hire status, as one of our teachers has come over from another Thai school and I'm sure he is on an expat contract. If not, he's doing very well in his salary, as he lives in very nice school accommodation. Do you think some schools will "forego" the gentleman's agreement? I only ask as I am currently talking with ISB about a possible move from my current school...
interesting comment about a "gentleman's agreement" about local hire status, as one of our teachers has come over from another Thai school and I'm sure he is on an expat contract. If not, he's doing very well in his salary, as he lives in very nice school accommodation. Do you think some schools will "forego" the gentleman's agreement? I only ask as I am currently talking with ISB about a possible move from my current school...
yeah
@nuts88
Well yeah it is best to just get on at an elite school to start, but thats easier said then done. You don't just decide to walk into that type of position/ school. Part of the reason for that is that inded competition is very fierce. There is also low turnover, as once a teacher has a position at an elite school they tend to stay, as their is little to move up to on the IS ladder. A number of teachers at schools like ISB (I'm sure Ichiro will confirm) retire out of their career at a school like ISB.
Logistics issues like family and non-teaching spouses dont matte as much at elite schools. They care more about your teaching ability and what kind of fit you will be with the school. That's what really matters. My experience in Thailand, is that married male teachers with kids, are less a "potential embarrassment" then a single male teacher.
Well yeah it is best to just get on at an elite school to start, but thats easier said then done. You don't just decide to walk into that type of position/ school. Part of the reason for that is that inded competition is very fierce. There is also low turnover, as once a teacher has a position at an elite school they tend to stay, as their is little to move up to on the IS ladder. A number of teachers at schools like ISB (I'm sure Ichiro will confirm) retire out of their career at a school like ISB.
Logistics issues like family and non-teaching spouses dont matte as much at elite schools. They care more about your teaching ability and what kind of fit you will be with the school. That's what really matters. My experience in Thailand, is that married male teachers with kids, are less a "potential embarrassment" then a single male teacher.
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
[quote="ChoirGuy"]Hi Ichiro,
interesting comment about a "gentleman's agreement" about local hire status, as one of our teachers has come over from another Thai school and I'm sure he is on an expat contract. If not, he's doing very well in his salary, as he lives in very nice school accommodation. Do you think some schools will "forego" the gentleman's agreement? I only ask as I am currently talking with ISB about a possible move from my current school...[/quote]
_______________________________________
While not a gentlemen's agreement, many schools here in Beijing have it in their school policy that if you are already here in Beijing, you will only get a local contract (same salary, no housing, flights etc).
But guess what? They frequently ignore the policy if they really want you. So by all means, do whatever you can to get into a place like ISB. The extra benefits may be negotiable.
interesting comment about a "gentleman's agreement" about local hire status, as one of our teachers has come over from another Thai school and I'm sure he is on an expat contract. If not, he's doing very well in his salary, as he lives in very nice school accommodation. Do you think some schools will "forego" the gentleman's agreement? I only ask as I am currently talking with ISB about a possible move from my current school...[/quote]
_______________________________________
While not a gentlemen's agreement, many schools here in Beijing have it in their school policy that if you are already here in Beijing, you will only get a local contract (same salary, no housing, flights etc).
But guess what? They frequently ignore the policy if they really want you. So by all means, do whatever you can to get into a place like ISB. The extra benefits may be negotiable.
Was in Cheap Charlies the other night, a lively expats rather than sexpats bar in downtown Bangkok.
Met up with a few IS teachers who I studied with a few years ago. Both have secured places at IS in Bangkok starting August after having previously worked at other IS in Bangkok.
They and another 'local hire' have all secured flights to country of origin, which surprised me as I also thought flights would be only given to foreign hires. One of my friends has lived in Thailand for 16 years!
Both are female, KS 1 teachers. The other teacher is KS 2.
Met up with a few IS teachers who I studied with a few years ago. Both have secured places at IS in Bangkok starting August after having previously worked at other IS in Bangkok.
They and another 'local hire' have all secured flights to country of origin, which surprised me as I also thought flights would be only given to foreign hires. One of my friends has lived in Thailand for 16 years!
Both are female, KS 1 teachers. The other teacher is KS 2.
Reflection
I think Ichiro is in a unique position to have insight on this issue. As worldtravler described and I believe and agree that like many large cosmopolitan cities (such as Hong Kong, Beijing, Singapore, Shanghai, Bangkok) certain understandings exist between between school heads. I also believe that exceptions are made when the best interests of the school are at issue. It would be difficult for a school to incentivize a highly desirable candidate, who happens to already be locally available, with only a "local" package. I think in such situations ones own interests (the schools) outweigh the understanding. Im also sure that there is probably a "lessor gentlemans understanding" that exceptions will be made.
My experience is that heads in the same city basically agree to "not stealing/poaching each others teachers", I can also see them having their fingers crossed and uttering under their breath "unless I get a teacher that has a resume I cant resist"...
My experience is that heads in the same city basically agree to "not stealing/poaching each others teachers", I can also see them having their fingers crossed and uttering under their breath "unless I get a teacher that has a resume I cant resist"...
In Malaysia, one of the main languages in business is English. It is a requirement for any skilled job. Whatever your wife is trained for, she can do the work. Expect local salaries which are crap, unless she can find a company willing to get her her own visa.
Costs in Malaysia are increasing quickly, and expect it to be worse once the ruling . win their election this year. Did I say win, I meant rigged.
You Need a car here, or live by one of the train stations. Or your life will suck, busses are ok, but don't really go anywhere and are stuck in traffic.
Costs in Malaysia are increasing quickly, and expect it to be worse once the ruling . win their election this year. Did I say win, I meant rigged.
You Need a car here, or live by one of the train stations. Or your life will suck, busses are ok, but don't really go anywhere and are stuck in traffic.