I have been pleased to have had some very positive reactions to several recent International job applications such that contact followed soon afterwards with my referees. At that point, though, interest seems to have cooled in each case making me consider what the problem might be.
I am absolutely sure that references 2 and 3 are very positive and complimentary but I am less certain about my current employer for whom I have worked for almost 5 years and under whom I really feel I have been poorly and disrespectfully treated although I have made every effort to get on with my job and to keep things on a professional level. The fact is that in all those years the principal knows very little about me or my capabilities and I had cause to discover that he almost certainly scuppered another potential appointment 3 years ago when I discovered from the head of that school that my principal told them I was under contract and not eligible to apply. This was not true because new contract were being offered for the next contract term but nothing at that stage presented to me.
The fact is that I have only listed him, with his permission, on the basis that it is usually expected that a current employer be included. However, I am beginning to think that he is once again being less than positive and damaging my prospects. Pure speculation but a distinct pattern is emerging that leads me clearly to that conclusion.
Do i confront him about it, which could make matters worse? Do I just exclude him from my list of referees. If the latter, how do I explain this without it sounding like sour grapes?
References issue
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wrldtrvlr123
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- Location: Japan
Re: References issue
[quote="aphid"]I have been pleased to have had some very positive reactions to several recent International job applications such that contact followed soon afterwards with my referees. At that point, though, interest seems to have cooled in each case making me consider what the problem might be.
I am absolutely sure that references 2 and 3 are very positive and complimentary but I am less certain about my current employer for whom I have worked for almost 5 years and under whom I really feel I have been poorly and disrespectfully treated although I have made every effort to get on with my job and to keep things on a professional level. The fact is that in all those years the principal knows very little about me or my capabilities and I had cause to discover that he almost certainly scuppered another potential appointment 3 years ago when I discovered from the head of that school that my principal told them I was under contract and not eligible to apply. This was not true because new contract were being offered for the next contract term but nothing at that stage presented to me.
The fact is that I have only listed him, with his permission, on the basis that it is usually expected that a current employer be included. However, I am beginning to think that he is once again being less than positive and damaging my prospects. Pure speculation but a distinct pattern is emerging that leads me clearly to that conclusion.
Do i confront him about it, which could make matters worse? Do I just exclude him from my list of referees. If the latter, how do I explain this without it sounding like sour grapes?[/quote]
If he is sabotaging your chance at finding a new school, how much worse could it be (other than firing you)? I would ask for a written reference, but many schools know that confidential references could be very different than open references.
Are you a member of Search or ISS? If so, then your associate could look at the reference and give you an idea of whether you have a problem.
At worst, you need to respectfully try and talk to your current boss. You may also (if you haven't already) try and write to the principals that cooled on you and ask for their advice as to whether their was anything in your CV, interview, background etc that you could work on to improve your chances of being successful in the future (for your own personal/professional growth etc). Someone may give you enough feedback to allow you to read between the lines.
I am absolutely sure that references 2 and 3 are very positive and complimentary but I am less certain about my current employer for whom I have worked for almost 5 years and under whom I really feel I have been poorly and disrespectfully treated although I have made every effort to get on with my job and to keep things on a professional level. The fact is that in all those years the principal knows very little about me or my capabilities and I had cause to discover that he almost certainly scuppered another potential appointment 3 years ago when I discovered from the head of that school that my principal told them I was under contract and not eligible to apply. This was not true because new contract were being offered for the next contract term but nothing at that stage presented to me.
The fact is that I have only listed him, with his permission, on the basis that it is usually expected that a current employer be included. However, I am beginning to think that he is once again being less than positive and damaging my prospects. Pure speculation but a distinct pattern is emerging that leads me clearly to that conclusion.
Do i confront him about it, which could make matters worse? Do I just exclude him from my list of referees. If the latter, how do I explain this without it sounding like sour grapes?[/quote]
If he is sabotaging your chance at finding a new school, how much worse could it be (other than firing you)? I would ask for a written reference, but many schools know that confidential references could be very different than open references.
Are you a member of Search or ISS? If so, then your associate could look at the reference and give you an idea of whether you have a problem.
At worst, you need to respectfully try and talk to your current boss. You may also (if you haven't already) try and write to the principals that cooled on you and ask for their advice as to whether their was anything in your CV, interview, background etc that you could work on to improve your chances of being successful in the future (for your own personal/professional growth etc). Someone may give you enough feedback to allow you to read between the lines.
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overseasvet2
- Posts: 191
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references
We had a similar situation once and a couple of years later found out that indeed, the ES principal had all but killed my career in international schools by saying something about being hard to get along with. I was furious when I found out because she never hinted that it would be less than positive. With hindsight I can see why she'd write that - she was/is a pseudo educator and coming straight from the States, I didn't hesitate to call her on it. I wasn't savvy enough to hide my lack of respect from her.
What to do? I did have her reference pulled and never listed her again. I had other references that were stellar and since we had been fortunate enough to get other jobs before hunting again, she never came up again.
A friend just got a job at the job fairs without her current principal's rec. The teacher simply didn't trust her. She's happy where she's landed and will be able to build up a bank of references.
Do ask your associate for help and if it's too bad, ask to have it removed.
What to do? I did have her reference pulled and never listed her again. I had other references that were stellar and since we had been fortunate enough to get other jobs before hunting again, she never came up again.
A friend just got a job at the job fairs without her current principal's rec. The teacher simply didn't trust her. She's happy where she's landed and will be able to build up a bank of references.
Do ask your associate for help and if it's too bad, ask to have it removed.
Sociopaths
What do you expect to gain from talking to your principal. If she admits it, you cant do anything about it. If she denies it you already know shes lying. I'd ask for a written reference from her, as long as you understand that "open" references arent give much wait at all. What you need to do, is just stop using her as a reference, and ask your associate to "pull" her confidential reference from your file.
In the meantime you may have to step back your expectations a bit in your next job. What you need to do is "bury" this job and this principal, under your next job, and to do that you need a new job first. Beating your head against the tree is counter productive. Just move on.
In the meantime you may have to step back your expectations a bit in your next job. What you need to do is "bury" this job and this principal, under your next job, and to do that you need a new job first. Beating your head against the tree is counter productive. Just move on.
Thank you all for your varied and interesting responses and nice to know I am not alone. They are all greatly appreciated.
As has been mentioned, I have little doubt that my current Principal would not admit to poisoning my prospects and yet I believe that is precisely what has/is happening. With a weekend to reflect I have decided on a number of steps.
1. To remove him from my Resume, although I know i will have to explain that away since it is expected that you list your current employer.
2. Not to speak to him about it because it may do more harm than good and I do not believe I would see a genuine copy of what had been sent to schools...as PsyGuy has suggested.
3. If a promising opportunity that has recently cooled doesn't finally materialise I do intend to politely request clarification for the benefit of future applications....as wrldtrvlr123 has suggested.
What I has not considered was asking my Search Associate to check the reference from him contained any 'problem'. That I will certainly do, although not all interest is Search-based.
Thanks again, everyone, and finger's crossed for a better conclusion with future opportunities!
As has been mentioned, I have little doubt that my current Principal would not admit to poisoning my prospects and yet I believe that is precisely what has/is happening. With a weekend to reflect I have decided on a number of steps.
1. To remove him from my Resume, although I know i will have to explain that away since it is expected that you list your current employer.
2. Not to speak to him about it because it may do more harm than good and I do not believe I would see a genuine copy of what had been sent to schools...as PsyGuy has suggested.
3. If a promising opportunity that has recently cooled doesn't finally materialise I do intend to politely request clarification for the benefit of future applications....as wrldtrvlr123 has suggested.
What I has not considered was asking my Search Associate to check the reference from him contained any 'problem'. That I will certainly do, although not all interest is Search-based.
Thanks again, everyone, and finger's crossed for a better conclusion with future opportunities!
Also, perhaps there is a vice principal, director, department head or senior colleague that you can get a better reference from? When asked for a current reference, you can list one of these people instead. And only explain your situation if the recruiter insists on having your current principal as a reference.
Hi Imnop. A sensible idea you would think but if only things were that simple.
Management are under clear instructions not to provide references for colleagues. Instead, requests for references must be directed directly to the Principal. Not surprising then, that my HOD, although willing, would not do so for fear of being reprimanded.
Management are under clear instructions not to provide references for colleagues. Instead, requests for references must be directed directly to the Principal. Not surprising then, that my HOD, although willing, would not do so for fear of being reprimanded.
Yeah
Good thing your leaving anyway, your principal sounds like an all out tyrant. What I would do to extend on Imnop's suggestion is ask around about anyone else who is leaving or has already left and see if they would be a reference contact for you.
Handing in my letter confirming my intention to leave was certainly a nice feeling. Despite my personal feelings towards the Principal, which remain cordial on a face to face basis, I am extremely disappointed and saddened that he (apparently) has no desire to support my attempts to secure an appointment elsewhere despite.
Hard to blame him
I cant really say that thats uncommon though. Out of sight is out of mind. This might be a small business but its a fairly spread out one. Im sure there are people who had heads that really "mentored" them and maintain a relationship with, but to a large extent this is a business, and your head is your boss, and there really isnt much to the relationship beyond that.
I think thats a common misperception in education and teaching. You have to compartmentalize the student/teacher relationship you have with your kids from the employer/employee relationship you have with the school. It can be easy for a teacher to confuse or commingle the two.
It might be "nice" or "professional" for a head/principal to foster your professional growth and development, and there are heads that do, but its not required, and doesnt take precedence over the "business" aspect of running a school. Some heads and admins feel that such mentoring fosters too close or an inappropriate relationship with their staff. It can be hard to make business decisions when your friends with your employees.
I think thats a common misperception in education and teaching. You have to compartmentalize the student/teacher relationship you have with your kids from the employer/employee relationship you have with the school. It can be easy for a teacher to confuse or commingle the two.
It might be "nice" or "professional" for a head/principal to foster your professional growth and development, and there are heads that do, but its not required, and doesnt take precedence over the "business" aspect of running a school. Some heads and admins feel that such mentoring fosters too close or an inappropriate relationship with their staff. It can be hard to make business decisions when your friends with your employees.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
[quote="aphid"]Unfortunetely I have just had word from my area Search associate who is unwilling to give me any indication about the contents of any of my references, specifically the one causing concern.[/quote]
That's a shame. I guess they know where their money really comes from (and it's not the teachers). They could easily advise you on the best course of action, without breaking confidentiality.
That's a shame. I guess they know where their money really comes from (and it's not the teachers). They could easily advise you on the best course of action, without breaking confidentiality.
I fully agree. I didn't ask him to brake any confidence but, after explaining my suspicions, I just wanted an indication of whether or not it was best to replace the reference. In the circumstances I have no choice but to pull it anyway but without being able to offer another from my current school.