I am in contact and interviewing with three schools-- the American School of Madrid, the International School of Krakow, and the International School of Brussels-- and I would like to know anyone's thoughts about the costs of living between all of them. I am married with a non-teaching spouse, have two young children who would attend the schools, and I have nine years of experience. My husband works freelance with clients in the U.S. and would be providing some money to our budget, but I would provide the benefits. We would be renting our current home here for about $1200 and have some other debts to pay back home. We know how to budget and do not live extravagant lifestyles, but we would like to pay our bills and travel a little bit.
I like all of the schools very much and all of the locations as well, even though they are in different climates and different sizes in school population.
I am going to go through the numbers, but any personal thoughts from experience or otherwise would be greatly appreciated, too. Thank you!
Comparing cost of living for three schools in Europe
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NicoleMarieSchreiber
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:12 am
Im sorry
How much is your husband going to contribute, thats the REALLY big question? I cant speak too much directly about IS Krakow, but the cost of Living in Madrid and Brussels, are going to really be about the same for you, after considering their packages and juggling the salaries, taxes, and various allowances they come out "about the same" and the truth is you will starve on 1+ income with 2 kids and a husband in those cities with that money. Let me put it this way, your housing and other fixed expenses will eat up pretty much your entire salary for a three bedroom villa/apartment.
You also say you have some bills back home and would like to travel, and thats not going to happen. Unless your husband is REALLY pulling in some money meaning hes gotta make about the same as you JUST to break even. Add the traveling and your broke, after the "other bills"and your going into debt on your credit cards.
I know a lot of teachers when I was in Italy who had this same problem, Two salaries and kids and they were living pay check to pay check. I need to be honest here, you need to look outside Western Europe... The other problem is that these schools will be very reluctant to hire you. Under EU law an employer that hires someone with disregard to their salary and cost of living can be held liable. Unless your husband has a Business visa, and tax permit for those countries he cant legally work (freelance or not) meaning that a school can really only consider your income and salary to support a family of 4. If anything happened to you or your family, the school could be criminally liable.
You also say you have some bills back home and would like to travel, and thats not going to happen. Unless your husband is REALLY pulling in some money meaning hes gotta make about the same as you JUST to break even. Add the traveling and your broke, after the "other bills"and your going into debt on your credit cards.
I know a lot of teachers when I was in Italy who had this same problem, Two salaries and kids and they were living pay check to pay check. I need to be honest here, you need to look outside Western Europe... The other problem is that these schools will be very reluctant to hire you. Under EU law an employer that hires someone with disregard to their salary and cost of living can be held liable. Unless your husband has a Business visa, and tax permit for those countries he cant legally work (freelance or not) meaning that a school can really only consider your income and salary to support a family of 4. If anything happened to you or your family, the school could be criminally liable.
Visas
Hmmmm interesting about the visas. Does the same apply in Asia? We are thinking of going to Asia for a couple of years soon. We are in a similar position to the first poster - same amount of experience, 2 kids, husband working freelance online and would like to try for job in Asia - maybe somewhere warm! We are both EU citizens....
How often is the info posted on Search wrong, especially in terms of taxes?
I looked at one school in Europe recently that stated the taxes/other deductions were 5%, but after doing some research on my own (because that didn't seem possible), I'm thinking it was a typo and should have read "50%!" That is quite a....difference.
Who could survive on 20,000 Euro a year? Seriously. You'd have to be single, extremely frugal, and live in a hovel while having no bills back home to worry about. (Or have a high-income producing spouse, but even then....)
How do people manage???? I don't live high on the hog here in the states, but I'm not too keen on a constant diet of ramen noodles.
I looked at one school in Europe recently that stated the taxes/other deductions were 5%, but after doing some research on my own (because that didn't seem possible), I'm thinking it was a typo and should have read "50%!" That is quite a....difference.
Who could survive on 20,000 Euro a year? Seriously. You'd have to be single, extremely frugal, and live in a hovel while having no bills back home to worry about. (Or have a high-income producing spouse, but even then....)
How do people manage???? I don't live high on the hog here in the states, but I'm not too keen on a constant diet of ramen noodles.
Responses
Generally no, there are a lot of people in China, SK, Thailand, etc that are working on Tourist visas. In Asia's, it depends more on how visible your freelance business is and what your doing. A programmer would have a very easy job, a photographer would be much harder. Lastly, it depends how much money you make, but lots of people in Asia, moonlight.
The simple answer is that people don't manage, but their isn't the competition to acquire wealth like there is in the USA. Many people rent, and don't own homes, and cars are less frequent and popular in major cities. Most people who do own cars, also opt for smaller sedans and compacts. Not a lot of SUVs or Trucks in private non commercial use.
With smaller spaces and homes comes other economies of scale, most professionals have small wardrobes, of high quality good clothes, and yes, clothing is usually more expensive. In Italy, I was AMAZED at how small some of the shoe collections of woman are. Maybe 6 pairs on average, how many pairs of black heels do you neeD when they are a REALLY GOOD pair of black heels? It's the same way with other things from kitchen cookware to electronics. For instance one family, I'm friends with, a family of four, has only one Television in their apartment instead of the one in each room in the States.
Most people in Europe eat more on the economy. Eating out is expensive so in Italy I often had a continental breakfast (pastry and juice) and ate lunch at the school, which was my big meal because school lunch is cheap, (free if you eat with your mentor, or homeroom and a couple euro if you eat in the faculty dining room. Vino is a single euro a glass). Then I usually ate at home, or grabbed dinner at a cafe on the tail end of the lunch (and cheaper) menu. People also do dinner parties a lot, it feels like eating out, but when you rotate the hosting family it's very economical. Lastly, most people get some kind of tax break for a while in Europe, and many teachers move on when their tax exemptions run out.
Europe is not the place to get wealthy, build savings, or lead an affluent lifestyle. If you want to live on the high end of the economy, stick to Asia.
The simple answer is that people don't manage, but their isn't the competition to acquire wealth like there is in the USA. Many people rent, and don't own homes, and cars are less frequent and popular in major cities. Most people who do own cars, also opt for smaller sedans and compacts. Not a lot of SUVs or Trucks in private non commercial use.
With smaller spaces and homes comes other economies of scale, most professionals have small wardrobes, of high quality good clothes, and yes, clothing is usually more expensive. In Italy, I was AMAZED at how small some of the shoe collections of woman are. Maybe 6 pairs on average, how many pairs of black heels do you neeD when they are a REALLY GOOD pair of black heels? It's the same way with other things from kitchen cookware to electronics. For instance one family, I'm friends with, a family of four, has only one Television in their apartment instead of the one in each room in the States.
Most people in Europe eat more on the economy. Eating out is expensive so in Italy I often had a continental breakfast (pastry and juice) and ate lunch at the school, which was my big meal because school lunch is cheap, (free if you eat with your mentor, or homeroom and a couple euro if you eat in the faculty dining room. Vino is a single euro a glass). Then I usually ate at home, or grabbed dinner at a cafe on the tail end of the lunch (and cheaper) menu. People also do dinner parties a lot, it feels like eating out, but when you rotate the hosting family it's very economical. Lastly, most people get some kind of tax break for a while in Europe, and many teachers move on when their tax exemptions run out.
Europe is not the place to get wealthy, build savings, or lead an affluent lifestyle. If you want to live on the high end of the economy, stick to Asia.
Brussels is tax free for the first two years....Krakow may be the least for spending but you have to see the salary/package first. Who gives housing, flights home etc? That will be a big expense if the school doesn't offer it (my guess is Brussels and Madrid do not) I think that you can save money on one salary (I do - one teacher, family of 4, europe) but you have to be thoughtful about it. You won't make as much as you think you might, but you can live.
[quote="nancyt"]Brussels is tax free for the first two years....Krakow may be the least for spending but you have to see the salary/package first. Who gives housing, flights home etc? That will be a big expense if the school doesn't offer it (my guess is Brussels and Madrid do not) I think that you can save money on one salary (I do - one teacher, family of 4, europe) but you have to be thoughtful about it. You won't make as much as you think you might, but you can live.[/quote]
Are you sure that Brussels is tax free? I taught there 10 years ago and the Director often complained about his fruitless discussions with the govt to get Belgium to have the same status as Germany or Luxembourg.
My recommendation would be to focus on regions that offer housing and a tax free salary. That would mean Asia or the Middle East. Leave Europe until the kids are off your hands and the debts paid off.
Are you sure that Brussels is tax free? I taught there 10 years ago and the Director often complained about his fruitless discussions with the govt to get Belgium to have the same status as Germany or Luxembourg.
My recommendation would be to focus on regions that offer housing and a tax free salary. That would mean Asia or the Middle East. Leave Europe until the kids are off your hands and the debts paid off.
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Crgallen22
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:43 am
I was offered a job at the school in Krakow a couple years back. Their package was minimal, not including housing, shipment, or even medical insurance. I am not sure if things have improved.
However, I have a couple friends who work/have worked there and they all have greatly enjoyed their time at ISK.
However, I have a couple friends who work/have worked there and they all have greatly enjoyed their time at ISK.
Belgium
There is a tax break for your first 2 years, but it's not tax free. You stil have to pay social security which is 9% and municipal tax (for Brussels). The tax break is a flat 15%. A lot of people still think that tax treaties mean you get 2 years tax free, and as I've written on earlier forums, those don't really apply to many international teachers. The combined tax rate would still be a minimum of 24%.
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NicoleMarieSchreiber
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:12 am
Thank you everyone for all of your advice. I am surprised by the minimal package in Krakow mentioned above. How long ago were you offered it, Crgallen22? I spoke at length to someone who worked there ten years ago when it was really a small school, and his package sounded better, at least with medical insurance covered and reasonable salary. I am surprised it would go downhill like that. Is that why you didn't take it?
Thanks again to you all!
Thanks again to you all!
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rumour5182
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:08 pm
- Location: U.S.
Hi Nicole,
I found out some information about the ISK package this week. I've been interviewing with them as well, and learned more about their salary/benefits information. If you're still interested, let me know and I can e-mail you directly. (I feel weird posting it on the board.)
Hope your interviewing is going well!
I found out some information about the ISK package this week. I've been interviewing with them as well, and learned more about their salary/benefits information. If you're still interested, let me know and I can e-mail you directly. (I feel weird posting it on the board.)
Hope your interviewing is going well!
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NicoleMarieSchreiber
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:12 am
My email is nschreiber@integrity.com. Yes, please write today if you can! I am on the computer right now. Thank you so much. :-)
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Crgallen22
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:43 am
Teaching in europe with dependents
[quote="nancyt"]Brussels is tax free for the first two years....Krakow may be the least for spending but you have to see the salary/package first. Who gives housing, flights home etc? That will be a big expense if the school doesn't offer it (my guess is Brussels and Madrid do not) I think that you can save money on one salary (I do - one teacher, family of 4, europe) but you have to be thoughtful about it. You won't make as much as you think you might, but you can live.[/quote]
Can you tell me if it possible to afford the living costs for myself and 3 dependents teaching at an international school in europe? We are very interested in eastern Europe as packages seem better. We will have eu visas sonmy husband would like to find work too though he only speaks english. He is a trained teacher assistant. We are careful spenders and would love the chance to see various parts of europe. Regards Kylie
Pasalichelliott@hotmail.com
Can you tell me if it possible to afford the living costs for myself and 3 dependents teaching at an international school in europe? We are very interested in eastern Europe as packages seem better. We will have eu visas sonmy husband would like to find work too though he only speaks english. He is a trained teacher assistant. We are careful spenders and would love the chance to see various parts of europe. Regards Kylie
Pasalichelliott@hotmail.com