Guidance Counselors

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:51 pm

Do International Schools hire foreign guidance counselors? I'd much rather do that than teach imo. And I would be able to just get my MA and not go back for a BA in education. [/i]

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:59 pm

EDIT*

Ok so after reading another thread it appears International Schools do hire foreign guidance counselors.

I am quite happy to see this. Im 25 years old with a BA in business. Hopefully I can find a MA in guidance counseling program that I can do without having an undergrad in counseling.

Im going to teach ESL in Colombia till next Jan. And will return to the US to knock out this MA in counseling hopefully.

Then apply for positions abroad but if im not successful I will just get some experience state side.

PsyGuy · Post by **PsyGuy** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:29 pm

Thats a nice plan, but its not that simple (though yes international school do hire foreign counselors, they almost always do). You need to be certified as a School Counselor, which isnt just getting an MA. Different states have different requirements, my two home states require you to have 2-3 years of certified teaching experience before you can be certified as a counselor. Second, just banging out the certification/degree will not get you hired at an international school. You need experience as well, typically 2 years, before an international school will look at you, especially for counselor positions, where your part of the leadership team in some capacity.

You dont need an undergrad in psychology, education etc to find a Masters program in school counseling, though some schools may require you to take some leveling courses first.

dreamgiver · Post by **dreamgiver** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:36 pm

A school counseling degree will take you 2-3 years. If you don't have a teaching degree, you very likely will have extra requirements as part of your degree program. Then you will need 2+ years of experience just like teachers must have to be qualified for an international job. And it depends on which level you want to counsel. Elementary and middle school usually require quite a bit of classroom teaching in the form of guidance lessons. So if you don't want to "be a teacher" you should find a different career or stick with high school/career counseling. It definitely is not as simple as you make it sound. Time and effort is probably not that different between going the teaching vs. counseling route. Plus, you will have a hard time getting into the good school counseling programs with no education or psychology background. But there are LOTS of second rate programs out there.

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:54 pm

Yea I would have to get licensed by my state. I will need to see what is their requirements for that. Hopefully nothing absurd or I will look for a more lenient state.

The program at my local Uni is 60 hours.

Just like with teaching you can find jobs without the 2 yr exp requirement, esp at lower level schools.

But if I cant get a job when I first get certified I will just get one state side and repeat the process until I land my first International gig.

So glad I found another route to take besides teaching to live abroad! And it is actually in something that id enjoy doing.

What ever I need to do ill do.

dreamgiver · Post by **dreamgiver** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Just do your research about the ease of getting a counseling job stateside. With educational budget cuts, counselors are frequently one of the first positions to be cut. In my state there are a ton of counselors and very few jobs. The competition is absolutely fierce.

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:13 pm

My state looks good (NC). No experience needed for licensing.

http://www.schoolcounselor.org/content. ... tentid=242

And holds reciprocity with many states.

I am alittle bummed the MA program is 60 hours long!

Oh well, gotta do what you gotta do.

PsyGuy · Post by **PsyGuy** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:45 pm

Dont believe non government licensing websites. From the NC department of professional licensing: http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/licensure/administrator/

In the first sentence and under the heading further down titled "Requirement for All Areas" (which includes school counselor) you must have and obtain a "Standard Professional 2 (SP2) Professional Educator's License.", when you follow that link you will find that the SP2 license requires "3 or more years of teaching experience".

This is in addition to the School counselor requirements of:
* Completion of an approved program in school counseling at the master's level or above
* NTE/Praxis School Guidance and Counseling test. Educational Testing Service (ETS)

Im sorry but your going to need to become a teacher first, then teach for 3 years before you can qualify for a certification as a school counselor.

As mentioned above, most campuses have one counselor per campus. Compared with the number of faculty thats a VERY small pool of candidates, and of the "admin" positions specialists and then counselors are the first to go.

Lastly, at small international schools the school counselor often has a light teaching load, either career development or sometimes IB psychology as well.

dreamgiver · Post by **dreamgiver** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:52 pm

You absolutely do NOT need to be a teacher with teaching experience before being a school counselor! However some states or districts require it. But many do not! But like I said in my earlier post, this field in many parts of the US is very competitive right now with budget issues being what they are. Being a teacher first is good because you have that to fall back on if you don't get a school counselor position. Just know what else you're going to do if you don't get a job!

PsyGuy · Post by **PsyGuy** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:58 pm

Sorry, I have to disagree with you dreamgiver. While its not an ABSOLUTE requirement, the reverse is more true. MANY states DO require either prior teacher certification and or experience. In the NC case above, it appears that you do need a teaching certificate and 3 years prior experience.

I only know of two states that dont (not that i know ALL the states) Hawaii, and Washington state (and Washingtons license requirements are specifically nice, in that the school counselor and school psychologist are combined into ONE certificate).

dreamgiver · Post by **dreamgiver** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:15 am

Okay, we can agree to disagree. You are correct that some states do require a teaching certification and experience. However I unequivocally know many do not. And if you get your school counseling degree and certification in a state that doesn't require it, once you get a few years of experience as a counselor, it's not much of an issue to teach in other states, as long as there is reciprocity. I know most of the international counseling jobs don't require you to have taught first. However you do need years of counseling experience. And what you said about WA state combining their school counselor and school psychologist certification is very misleading. They both require an ESA certificate. Same as school social workers, nurse, SLP, physical therapist, etc. However the educational program and requirements for that certificate are very different. Totally different masters degrees.

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:19 am

Im almost 100% sure that the GC at my mother's middle school was never a teacher.

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:24 am

PsyGuy,

The word that is used is "INTENDED". Big difference from REQUIRED.

The only 2 things that are required for the Standard Professional 2 (SP2) Professional Educator's License is

A) Complete a Masters program

B) Pass the PRAXIS

PsyGuy · Post by **PsyGuy** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:31 am

I didnt say some do not, I still maintain that many states DO require either prior teaching certification and/or experience to qualify for a school counselor certification. While few IS's require prior counseling experience (though practically I cant imagine a tier 2 or better school hiring one without the requisite 2+ years) its a moot point if the prior teaching and teacher certification is required for certification as a counselor to begin with.

Yes Washington has two separate ESA's but the degree/education requirements can be fulfilled within ONE program, and Id advance the claim that, thats what really matters, because outside of the degree (and the preparation program as part of that degree) the only other requirement is passing the appropriate Praxis test. It very clearly states at: http://www.k12.wa.us/certification/ESA/Residency.aspx
"It is not necessary for a candidate who holds a master's degree or doctorate in another field to obtain the specified master's degree if he or she has completed all course work requirements relevant to the required master's degree."
So no you dont need "totally different" Masters degrees. In the Washington case of reciprocity a candidate WOULD need to show three years prior experience as a counselor.

Aside from all that the OP's state (NC) DOES require a teaching certificate and 3 years prior experience.
http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/licensure/administrator/

CaliPro · Post by **CaliPro** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:36 am

PsyGuy,

Where are you getting / seeing that NC requires a TEACHING license?

The only license I see that is required to become a GC is the Standard Professional 2 (SP2) Professional Educator's License which is different for each job / area

http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/licensure/administrator/

For a School Counselor the requirements are listed as follows

School Counselor
-Completion of an approved program in school counseling at the master's level or above
-NTE/Praxis School Guidance and Counseling test. Educational Testing Service (ETS)

The SP2 license doesnt require you to hold a teaching license OR any experience from what im reading....

Guidance Counselors

Guidance Counselors

Uhm?????

Dont Believe

Have to disagree

Sorry