American Pacific International School (APIS) Chiang Mai
American Pacific International School (APIS) Chiang Mai
I have read some very positive comments about APIS and its location, and I have to say I find this school very interesting, so much so that I made a special effort to have a look at the campus whilst on holiday in Chiang Mai a couple of months ago. It did look quite impressive and in a stunning area. However, I remember seeing them advertising on a site for local hires in Thailand (ajarn.com) about a year ago and the pay didn’t look too flash, especially in comparison with other international schools in Thailand. Do they have different packages for local and international hires, and do they offer the benefits I would usually expect to receive as an international hire such as airfares, relocation allowance etc?. They score 9 and 10 in the “cost of living in relation to salaryâ€
Pretty much
According to Search, their annual salary for BA+4 years is $17K USD, after conversion to Thai Baht, and depending on which conversion rate you use, the salary would be about 55K Baht a month, so 60K Baht is in the right neighborhood.
Reviewing their compensation package they provide fully furnished accommodations (single unshared apartments), with free utilities on campus. They also provide up to 3 free meals a day on campus. A one time $500 in relocation expenses ($200 settling in allowance, and a $300 shipping allowance). They also provide full round trip airfare from place of hire. You get full worldwide medical insurance (no dental), two tuition waivers for dependent children, and a retirement plan after 2 years.
They dont pay the same for ESL teachers in their language support department, and local hires dont get the same package either.
Reviewing their compensation package they provide fully furnished accommodations (single unshared apartments), with free utilities on campus. They also provide up to 3 free meals a day on campus. A one time $500 in relocation expenses ($200 settling in allowance, and a $300 shipping allowance). They also provide full round trip airfare from place of hire. You get full worldwide medical insurance (no dental), two tuition waivers for dependent children, and a retirement plan after 2 years.
They dont pay the same for ESL teachers in their language support department, and local hires dont get the same package either.
I had a friend who worked there and have seen the campus. It is a bit out of the way and some find life a bit boring after a while especially singles.
Singles get a small apartment on campus. Most ride bikes and also rent a room or apartment with someone else in town so they can stay off campus on weekends.
Singles get a small apartment on campus. Most ride bikes and also rent a room or apartment with someone else in town so they can stay off campus on weekends.
Re: Pretty much
[quote="PsyGuy"]According to Search, their annual salary for BA+4 years is $17K USD, after conversion to Thai Baht, and depending on which conversion rate you use, the salary would be about 55K Baht a month, so 60K Baht is in the right neighborhood.
Reviewing their compensation package they provide fully furnished accommodations (single unshared apartments), with free utilities on campus. They also provide up to 3 free meals a day on campus. A one time $500 in relocation expenses ($200 settling in allowance, and a $300 shipping allowance). They also provide full round trip airfare from place of hire. You get full worldwide medical insurance (no dental), two tuition waivers for dependent children, and a retirement plan after 2 years.
They dont pay the same for ESL teachers in their language support department, and local hires dont get the same package either.[/quote]
I had to laugh (and then cry) when I saw that 17K figure. It doesnt sound as bad when its in Thai Baht, but seeing the yearly figure in USD makes me want to hang myself.
Reviewing their compensation package they provide fully furnished accommodations (single unshared apartments), with free utilities on campus. They also provide up to 3 free meals a day on campus. A one time $500 in relocation expenses ($200 settling in allowance, and a $300 shipping allowance). They also provide full round trip airfare from place of hire. You get full worldwide medical insurance (no dental), two tuition waivers for dependent children, and a retirement plan after 2 years.
They dont pay the same for ESL teachers in their language support department, and local hires dont get the same package either.[/quote]
I had to laugh (and then cry) when I saw that 17K figure. It doesnt sound as bad when its in Thai Baht, but seeing the yearly figure in USD makes me want to hang myself.
Yeah
The problem is PTIS is in the middle of nowhere, its way out of Chiang Mai. They pay $28K for a BA+4 years and $34K for an MA+8 years, which is about 72,000 Baht a month and 87,000 baht a month respectively.
Even those amounts sound kind of laughable compared to a western salary, though the cost of living makes a huge difference. First year certified teachers with a BA were making $45K a year back in the states.
I was making 60K baht a month in BK and lived pretty well. I know people I worked with who didnt do anything and saved about $5,000 at the end of the year, which barely got them through the summer outside Thailand.
Even those amounts sound kind of laughable compared to a western salary, though the cost of living makes a huge difference. First year certified teachers with a BA were making $45K a year back in the states.
I was making 60K baht a month in BK and lived pretty well. I know people I worked with who didnt do anything and saved about $5,000 at the end of the year, which barely got them through the summer outside Thailand.
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Pretty much
[quote="ExpatGuy"][quote="PsyGuy"]According to Search, their annual salary for BA+4 years is $17K USD, after conversion to Thai Baht, and depending on which conversion rate you use, the salary would be about 55K Baht a month, so 60K Baht is in the right neighborhood.
Reviewing their compensation package they provide fully furnished accommodations (single unshared apartments), with free utilities on campus. They also provide up to 3 free meals a day on campus. A one time $500 in relocation expenses ($200 settling in allowance, and a $300 shipping allowance). They also provide full round trip airfare from place of hire. You get full worldwide medical insurance (no dental), two tuition waivers for dependent children, and a retirement plan after 2 years.
They dont pay the same for ESL teachers in their language support department, and local hires dont get the same package either.[/quote]
I had to laugh (and then cry) when I saw that 17K figure. It doesnt sound as bad when its in Thai Baht, but seeing the yearly figure in USD makes me want to hang myself.[/quote]
Yes, it can be a bit disconcerting, but it depends on the cost of living and whether you have a lot of fixed bills back in your home country.
When we taught in Egypt, we were making 19,000 each which sounds really bad. BUT, with the extra benefits we were able to live a nice life, travel and save one person's entire salary. If you have a mortgage, credit card bills and/or student loans that MUST be paid out of that "savings", however, then even 19,000 savings a year doesn't sound that great.
Reviewing their compensation package they provide fully furnished accommodations (single unshared apartments), with free utilities on campus. They also provide up to 3 free meals a day on campus. A one time $500 in relocation expenses ($200 settling in allowance, and a $300 shipping allowance). They also provide full round trip airfare from place of hire. You get full worldwide medical insurance (no dental), two tuition waivers for dependent children, and a retirement plan after 2 years.
They dont pay the same for ESL teachers in their language support department, and local hires dont get the same package either.[/quote]
I had to laugh (and then cry) when I saw that 17K figure. It doesnt sound as bad when its in Thai Baht, but seeing the yearly figure in USD makes me want to hang myself.[/quote]
Yes, it can be a bit disconcerting, but it depends on the cost of living and whether you have a lot of fixed bills back in your home country.
When we taught in Egypt, we were making 19,000 each which sounds really bad. BUT, with the extra benefits we were able to live a nice life, travel and save one person's entire salary. If you have a mortgage, credit card bills and/or student loans that MUST be paid out of that "savings", however, then even 19,000 savings a year doesn't sound that great.
Thank you for the responses.
I think that 70,000 baht up would be ok, considering the place and cost of living, and 80,000 baht up would make it a good move. But if you're looking at the 60,000 baht range then regardless of benefits, that's really not much more than some of Thailand's bilingual schools that I've seen advertising requiring just any degree+2 years experience. If you've gone to the trouble of a B.Ed, PGCE or Masters and getting previous international school experience then I think it's reasonable to hope for more than that. I know the 60,000 baht range is probably good for in that part of Thailand, and I wouldn't be going there with hope of hoarding stacks of cash, but I would at least want to be able to pay a couple of hundred UK pounds per month towards my pension and have a decent summer every year. I just don't see how that would be possible for anything under 70,000 baht. Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick with that. Can anyone living in Thailand shed any further light on the reality?
Regards,
Inman
I think that 70,000 baht up would be ok, considering the place and cost of living, and 80,000 baht up would make it a good move. But if you're looking at the 60,000 baht range then regardless of benefits, that's really not much more than some of Thailand's bilingual schools that I've seen advertising requiring just any degree+2 years experience. If you've gone to the trouble of a B.Ed, PGCE or Masters and getting previous international school experience then I think it's reasonable to hope for more than that. I know the 60,000 baht range is probably good for in that part of Thailand, and I wouldn't be going there with hope of hoarding stacks of cash, but I would at least want to be able to pay a couple of hundred UK pounds per month towards my pension and have a decent summer every year. I just don't see how that would be possible for anything under 70,000 baht. Perhaps I've got the wrong end of the stick with that. Can anyone living in Thailand shed any further light on the reality?
Regards,
Inman
Its all in the Cost of Living
I dont know what the package would be for a bilingual school so I dont know if its fair to compare them. But to give you some insight:
1) Professional Opportunities: You cant do anything after teaching ESL/EFL except teach more ESL/EFL. After two years at an international School (IS) in Thailand (preferably with IB experience) you can move on and up to better schools. You can transfer IS experience, not so much with a LS (language school). IB training is valuable and marketable anywhere. If you ever want to get a doctorate or a Masters (from a top level school), education departments are unlikely to consider LS experience when considering you for admission or funding.
2) Prestige: LS's are pretty much entry level jobs. No one considers them seriously. I did JET after college and when i came back it didnt really impress anyone at all. A tier one IS on the other hand, is going to look like "professional experience". On top of that you have networking, not just other teachers but past students when you teach somewhere you are automatically building contacts with people youve never met. My consulting work I do, because my boss was a student at the same school I taught at in China.
3) Hours/Perks: You have a heavier course load at LS's 30 or so teaching periods a week, and they really only pay you based on your teaching periods. At an IS 20 hours is more the norm, and you get paid an hourly rate for extras like tutoring and club work. At an LS you may find yourself under resourced with supplies and materials. At an IS (a tier 1 school) your going to have all the things you need. Your also going to get access to little perks, such as free printing, copying, WiFi, etc. Your school will most likely give you a free lunch (and you can drink a beer with that on campus). You will actually get to know your co-workers, who will likely be helpful. The office staff will take care of a lot of "paperwork" such as paying your internet bill, and your police clearance to work with children. Depending on the LS your at you might never really get to know anyone but your supervisor, and the secretaries (and the secretaries will be unhelpful).
4) 10K Baht is only about $325 or 205£. So that 60K to 70K baht difference is your pension, and another 10K Baht or 70K to 80K Baht is your "nice summer"? 60K is only 1,200£ to begin with.
5) At an IS in Thailand pretty much ALL (100%) of your salary is going to be available for discretionary spending. pension, or whatever. Your going to have housing, utilities, airfare, insurance paid for. You will probably get 1-3 free meals a day on campus. Basically, the only thing you will have to pay for yourself for sure is your mobile phone, and stocking the fridge with beer (your apartment may or may not have internet and satellite). Everything else (including eating out) I lump under entertainment expenses. So it might be lean but at 1200£ a month (a 60K Baht salary) you could bank 200£ and live off the remaining 1000£ (or $50K Baht) still very nicely, considering you could pretty much do what ever you want with it, as you wont have really any bills that arent paid for. Really, I think your discounting the Cost of Living in a place like Thailand.
Imagine living in London and you contribute 200£ a month to your pension. You dont have to pay rent on your flat, and no utility bills, heres some AVERAGE costs:
Basics:
Monthly Metro Pass 18.93 £
Internet (6 Mbps, Flat Rate, Month) 11.62 £
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile/1 SMS (non plan) 0.03 £
(thats 6 £ for 200 minutes/messages a month)
TOTAL: 36.55 £
(that leaves 963.45£ left over and youve paid all your bills)
Restaurant:
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-courses 12 £
Combo Meal at McDonalds 2.5 £
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 1.15 £
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.72 £
Cappuccino 1.40 £
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 0.34 £
Entertainment:
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat 3.00 £
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 1.51 £
(It would not be "appropriate" to list the "other" forms of "night life" entertainment that Bangkok is known for in this forum).
Market:
Milk (regular), 1 liter 1.07 £
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.71 £
Eggs (12) 1.12 £
Fresh Cheese (1kg) 10.76 £
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg) 2.16 £
Apples (1kg) 1.32 £
Oranges (1kg) 1.75 £
Potato (1kg) 0.76 £
Lettuce (1 head) 0.21 £
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 0.31 £
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 10.87 £
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.06 £
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.68 £
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 1.51 £
Clothing:
1 Pair of Levis 501 23.07 £
1 Pair of Mens Leather Shoes 40.92 £
1 Pair of Nike Shoes 52.83 £
Hows that 963 £ leftover looking? Just to give you an example of your neighbors:
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 286.46 £
Your making 3 times that in DISPOSABLE income after all your bills....
1) Professional Opportunities: You cant do anything after teaching ESL/EFL except teach more ESL/EFL. After two years at an international School (IS) in Thailand (preferably with IB experience) you can move on and up to better schools. You can transfer IS experience, not so much with a LS (language school). IB training is valuable and marketable anywhere. If you ever want to get a doctorate or a Masters (from a top level school), education departments are unlikely to consider LS experience when considering you for admission or funding.
2) Prestige: LS's are pretty much entry level jobs. No one considers them seriously. I did JET after college and when i came back it didnt really impress anyone at all. A tier one IS on the other hand, is going to look like "professional experience". On top of that you have networking, not just other teachers but past students when you teach somewhere you are automatically building contacts with people youve never met. My consulting work I do, because my boss was a student at the same school I taught at in China.
3) Hours/Perks: You have a heavier course load at LS's 30 or so teaching periods a week, and they really only pay you based on your teaching periods. At an IS 20 hours is more the norm, and you get paid an hourly rate for extras like tutoring and club work. At an LS you may find yourself under resourced with supplies and materials. At an IS (a tier 1 school) your going to have all the things you need. Your also going to get access to little perks, such as free printing, copying, WiFi, etc. Your school will most likely give you a free lunch (and you can drink a beer with that on campus). You will actually get to know your co-workers, who will likely be helpful. The office staff will take care of a lot of "paperwork" such as paying your internet bill, and your police clearance to work with children. Depending on the LS your at you might never really get to know anyone but your supervisor, and the secretaries (and the secretaries will be unhelpful).
4) 10K Baht is only about $325 or 205£. So that 60K to 70K baht difference is your pension, and another 10K Baht or 70K to 80K Baht is your "nice summer"? 60K is only 1,200£ to begin with.
5) At an IS in Thailand pretty much ALL (100%) of your salary is going to be available for discretionary spending. pension, or whatever. Your going to have housing, utilities, airfare, insurance paid for. You will probably get 1-3 free meals a day on campus. Basically, the only thing you will have to pay for yourself for sure is your mobile phone, and stocking the fridge with beer (your apartment may or may not have internet and satellite). Everything else (including eating out) I lump under entertainment expenses. So it might be lean but at 1200£ a month (a 60K Baht salary) you could bank 200£ and live off the remaining 1000£ (or $50K Baht) still very nicely, considering you could pretty much do what ever you want with it, as you wont have really any bills that arent paid for. Really, I think your discounting the Cost of Living in a place like Thailand.
Imagine living in London and you contribute 200£ a month to your pension. You dont have to pay rent on your flat, and no utility bills, heres some AVERAGE costs:
Basics:
Monthly Metro Pass 18.93 £
Internet (6 Mbps, Flat Rate, Month) 11.62 £
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile/1 SMS (non plan) 0.03 £
(thats 6 £ for 200 minutes/messages a month)
TOTAL: 36.55 £
(that leaves 963.45£ left over and youve paid all your bills)
Restaurant:
Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-courses 12 £
Combo Meal at McDonalds 2.5 £
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter draught) 1.15 £
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.72 £
Cappuccino 1.40 £
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle) 0.34 £
Entertainment:
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat 3.00 £
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 1.51 £
(It would not be "appropriate" to list the "other" forms of "night life" entertainment that Bangkok is known for in this forum).
Market:
Milk (regular), 1 liter 1.07 £
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 0.71 £
Eggs (12) 1.12 £
Fresh Cheese (1kg) 10.76 £
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg) 2.16 £
Apples (1kg) 1.32 £
Oranges (1kg) 1.75 £
Potato (1kg) 0.76 £
Lettuce (1 head) 0.21 £
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 0.31 £
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 10.87 £
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 1.06 £
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 1.68 £
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 1.51 £
Clothing:
1 Pair of Levis 501 23.07 £
1 Pair of Mens Leather Shoes 40.92 £
1 Pair of Nike Shoes 52.83 £
Hows that 963 £ leftover looking? Just to give you an example of your neighbors:
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 286.46 £
Your making 3 times that in DISPOSABLE income after all your bills....
Fair comments there PsyGuy. I appreciate you putting together such a detailed and thoughtful response. Thanks for that.
Perhaps it was unfair of me to compare a bilingual school/higher paying language school with APIS. Indeed, the benefits of having the words "International School" on your resume are of greater value than pretty much any language school, with the likes of the British Council being the exception.
Considering all the points mentioned so far then, would it be fair to suggest that this school is the kind of place that's a good starting spot for anyone wishing to make the jump from Language/bilingual schools to International Schools? If it really is that easy to make 100k up in Bangkok, I don't think there are many who would choose 60K in Chiang Mai instead. However, there are many who would love to get their foot in the international school door (citing many of the benefits mentioned by PsyGuy, and especially the added bonus that you'd get IB experience and possibly IB training at APIS) and would feel happy to do so for 60K + benefits. I did very similar to this myself a few years ago. As an additional benefit for an experienced IB teacher, I guess it might be a good place to go for a co-ordinator position?
Personally, I'm completely sold on the place. The school sounds very positive, I love that it has all IB programmes, and I hear nothing but good things about living in Chiang Mai. Comparing it to the UK then it's true that the place provides a good package. Still though, you can get return flight from Bangkok to anywhere in the country 5k per time (or 20k per month if you went every weekend) so if I was offered 40k baht or more to work in the same country then it'd be hard not to.
Perhaps it was unfair of me to compare a bilingual school/higher paying language school with APIS. Indeed, the benefits of having the words "International School" on your resume are of greater value than pretty much any language school, with the likes of the British Council being the exception.
Considering all the points mentioned so far then, would it be fair to suggest that this school is the kind of place that's a good starting spot for anyone wishing to make the jump from Language/bilingual schools to International Schools? If it really is that easy to make 100k up in Bangkok, I don't think there are many who would choose 60K in Chiang Mai instead. However, there are many who would love to get their foot in the international school door (citing many of the benefits mentioned by PsyGuy, and especially the added bonus that you'd get IB experience and possibly IB training at APIS) and would feel happy to do so for 60K + benefits. I did very similar to this myself a few years ago. As an additional benefit for an experienced IB teacher, I guess it might be a good place to go for a co-ordinator position?
Personally, I'm completely sold on the place. The school sounds very positive, I love that it has all IB programmes, and I hear nothing but good things about living in Chiang Mai. Comparing it to the UK then it's true that the place provides a good package. Still though, you can get return flight from Bangkok to anywhere in the country 5k per time (or 20k per month if you went every weekend) so if I was offered 40k baht or more to work in the same country then it'd be hard not to.