Firing

[chilagringa]

Hello, here is my curiosity of the day:

How often does your school fire people? Is it a common occurrence at your school? When it happens, is it usually deserved? Is it a reflection of poor hiring practices, or low teacher support?

At both international schools I've worked for, one third tier, one first, both in Latin America, firing seemed quite common. More often than not it is understandable, although usually I feel like it could have been avoided by hiring someone better (ie more expensive / experienced / qualified / better references) to begin with.

I'm not worried myself, as all indicators say I'm respected here, but it does lead to slightly low morale. Thoughts?

[vandsmith]

maybe i've been lucky, but i've never heard of it happening at any of the schools i've worked at. some runners for sure, but no explicit firings - some contracts were not offered to be extended but again, no out and out sackings...except a director once. but she was shite and deserved it because she was unqualified and suffered from some horrible personality traits. but teachers no.

v.

[chilagringa]

You're right, not having a contract extended isn't really the same thing, and that wasn't what I was talking about, but now that I think about it, isn't that a soft form of firing?

[Thames Pirate]

One, but it was pretty deserved. Person arrived at school in Europe, and after a few weeks took advantage of paternity laws to go on leave. Turned out that while his wife and new baby stayed behind and he drew his salary, he actually took another job teaching in China, so he was drawing a double salary. Directors happened to chat, the whole thing was discovered, and our school sacked him. I think the school in China kept him because he was maths. I think his family moved to join him there. The expense of moving probably wiped out the financial gain of the two months he was doubling since zero assistance was provided and he had huge cancellation fees for everything in Europe.

[chilagringa]

Oh my goodness that is so dodgy.

[Thames Pirate]

Indeed. But very clever if it works. Not ethical, but clever. Though how he thought the China school would never talk to the Europe school is beyond me . . . .

[dude]

I am at a tier two school, going on my second year. Two people were fired during my time. One gave high school students the keys to her apartment while she was away so they could have a place to .. The other lied on his resume, which led to a step up on the pay scale. The school somehow found out (I think they were checking up on him for some reason) and fired him that afternoon. Two more had contracts not renewed for various reasons.

[sid]

Firings have been rare in my career, and deserved. Swearing at students was one trigger. Faking an injury was another. Faking a family (for the cash flight benefits) was a third. Other cases were less sensational, more along the lines of "just can't teach" though those were more of the non-renewal type instead of instantaneous.

[sid]

How can I forget. Using the system master key to change report card grades for certain favored students. The director had him on a plane within hours. This was in my first year of teaching.

[Glerky]

It happens... someone at my school was fired mid year. A parent said that the teacher was yelling at students. She wasn't. The parent found a school board member and complained. The teacher was let go. More often then not the school has not renewed contracts as labour laws mean they have to pay out a good portion of the contract.

[Nomad68]

I have worked at a couple of schools where folks have been fired - not including non-renewal of contracts. Some were fired for private tutoring, some for unprofessional behaviour in front of students (including insulting students), and one for for having a serious drinking problem. I have actually seen a teaching couple fired in front of me for clashing with the Director over the way one of them had been reprimanded, and I have worked at one school where post-accreditation a couple of people were fired for expressing personal views about the process within an hour of the accreditation team leaving. The same school had two active pedophiles on the staff whose inclinations were reported to the Principal but no action was taken. Go figure. Oh, and a long-serving and very self-serving head of department at a so-called Tier 1 school was fired 2 months from the end of his final year when he was found to have doctored grades, including those of his own kids, which also cost him the job he was moving to.

[global_nomad]

Firings (on the spot) have been rare in my international career as well, but both were deserved- HS teachers having inappropriate "relations" with HS students. If it would have happened in my home country, they would have been arrested. Many non-renewals and of course, runners.

[buffalofan]

I've seen it twice. In both cases it was a local hire and the reason was simply not showing up for work enough. In one case the teacher was calling in sick every single Friday until she was eventually sacked.

[PsyGuy]

It goes both ways, there are ISs that dismiss a lot of ITs compared to their recruiting, typically lower tier hardship ISs. On the other end of the spectrum its exceedingly rare, and depending on the regional labor and union laws/rules you essentially have to commit a crime to be dismissed (and that does happen).

The ISs that have greater dismissals share responsibility, of course leadership believes they are always right and they can do no harm, but often in the case of incompetence, the IT wasnt ready and the IS didnt provide them support. The other common factor is when recruiters and leadership misrepresented the IS and the work environment and the IT didnt want to budge.

Non-Renewals are a soft dismissal if the IT wants to stay, usually thy dont. The IS doesnt want them back and the IT doesnt want to stay. Their just isnt any commonality in the range of expectations. This is much more common in local host nation ISs, where differences in work culture are magnified.

The worst ones were:
1) The IT married his student after she graduated.
2) The IT who borrowed his brothers degree and credentials and was only found out when the actual brother applied.
3) The librarian who was selling the ISs books on Amazon.

@Thames Pirate

Id agree clever, if he hadnt gotten found out would have worked out well. Probably never listed it as a previous employer or used it as a reference. How they found out about each other would be interesting to hear.

[Thames Pirate]

Directors talk. But I am glad he was caught. Not fair to the school (and the rest of us or the kids).