I have about 37,000 in student loans and am doing the Income Based Repayment plan, which is essentially just paying the interest. However, in 7 years that will be paid off. Financially it seems it would be smarter to stay in US for 7 years and then look to teach overseas, but not sure? Any suggestions? Anyone trying to make similar decisions? I'm probably a tier three, possibly two teacher, so that's the level I could earn in IT.
Also, how is the market for Computer Science for IT teachers? I was looking into getting trained in that area. Thanks...
Loans
Response
Every IT thinks theyre awesome.
If you are using one of the various teacher forgiveness schemes based there are only a handful of ISs (and DODDS) that you will continue to qualify for, as the vast majority of ISs are private/independent they dont count as "public service". You could also remain on the income sensitive repayment plans and either report your foreign income and then apply for forgiveness after 25 years or you could claim your unemployed, stop making payments and again request forgiveness after 25 years.
I went into IE originally in part to run away from my student loans. Once you leave the US if you make a career out of IE, you can leave your loans behind. Thee are no effective enforcement actions the US could take to collect, and you will have a new credit profile.
Understand that with the exception of elite tier ISs most ITs take a pay cut compared to their state side salary Average net IT salaries is mid USD20K$ (a lot of third tier ISs skew the average).
ICT has a healthy demand, theres greater demand currently for primary ICT ITs, but overall ICT demand is primarily seen in coordinator roles. CompSci in upper secondary is a niche field, ISs are going more towards 1:1 programs meaning computer lab/classrooms are disappearing. Those 1:1 programs are mostly Chromebooks, tablets or MacBooks, and the focus is on software literacy.
ICT was and is mostly neglected from the BS NC. In IB its in the same group as other experimental sciences (bio, chem, phys) which are more highly preferred. Many Unis in the states either dont give placement credit for CompSci or when they do its just the year 1 intro comp course, or it allows the student to meet the Uni comp literacy requirement, which is less motivating for CompSci or CompEng majors. The big tech Unis arent going to be impressed with an IB or AP exam. They want to see evidence of your coding skills, what apps have you published, what are your NetOps skills, etc.. Any student who is serious about ICT would be asleep/bored in an IS exit level ICT program. The focus in IS on potential CompSci/CompEng students is in maths more so than ICT.
If you are using one of the various teacher forgiveness schemes based there are only a handful of ISs (and DODDS) that you will continue to qualify for, as the vast majority of ISs are private/independent they dont count as "public service". You could also remain on the income sensitive repayment plans and either report your foreign income and then apply for forgiveness after 25 years or you could claim your unemployed, stop making payments and again request forgiveness after 25 years.
I went into IE originally in part to run away from my student loans. Once you leave the US if you make a career out of IE, you can leave your loans behind. Thee are no effective enforcement actions the US could take to collect, and you will have a new credit profile.
Understand that with the exception of elite tier ISs most ITs take a pay cut compared to their state side salary Average net IT salaries is mid USD20K$ (a lot of third tier ISs skew the average).
ICT has a healthy demand, theres greater demand currently for primary ICT ITs, but overall ICT demand is primarily seen in coordinator roles. CompSci in upper secondary is a niche field, ISs are going more towards 1:1 programs meaning computer lab/classrooms are disappearing. Those 1:1 programs are mostly Chromebooks, tablets or MacBooks, and the focus is on software literacy.
ICT was and is mostly neglected from the BS NC. In IB its in the same group as other experimental sciences (bio, chem, phys) which are more highly preferred. Many Unis in the states either dont give placement credit for CompSci or when they do its just the year 1 intro comp course, or it allows the student to meet the Uni comp literacy requirement, which is less motivating for CompSci or CompEng majors. The big tech Unis arent going to be impressed with an IB or AP exam. They want to see evidence of your coding skills, what apps have you published, what are your NetOps skills, etc.. Any student who is serious about ICT would be asleep/bored in an IS exit level ICT program. The focus in IS on potential CompSci/CompEng students is in maths more so than ICT.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Loans
wilcoman wrote:
> I have about 37,000 in student loans and am doing the Income Based
> Repayment plan, which is essentially just paying the interest. However, in
> 7 years that will be paid off. Financially it seems it would be smarter to
> stay in US for 7 years and then look to teach overseas, but not sure? Any
> suggestions? Anyone trying to make similar decisions? I'm probably a tier
> three, possibly two teacher, so that's the level I could earn in IT.
>
> Also, how is the market for Computer Science for IT teachers? I was looking
> into getting trained in that area. Thanks...
------------------------
Just to clarify, you loans will be forgiven in 7 years? Because if just the interest is being paid under your current plan then the loan will never be paid off.
We both have/had student loans and would not have dreamed of letting them dictate our life/career plans. We did much better financially overseas based on salary/package/cost of living (in most places we have taught) and so some years we made payments, some years we took forbearance and until we are now both with DoDDS, making reasonable payments AND getting loan forgiveness.
If you really want to get out there in the world then do your research, and take the loans into account but don't let them be the final decider. I tend to disagree about most int'l teachers taking a pay cut, especially if you teach in the South, or areas of upstate NY etc. There are many, many decent to good schools outside of the 1st tier/elite that pay a good base salary and with the package (and possibly more favorable cost of living/tax situation) you could easily find yourself in a better financial situation overseas and able to make reasonable.
If you wonder about your marketability then apply to some schools and see what happens (you might want to join Search to help with your research). If you are relatively content where you are and really worried about the loans then stay put for 7 more years.
> I have about 37,000 in student loans and am doing the Income Based
> Repayment plan, which is essentially just paying the interest. However, in
> 7 years that will be paid off. Financially it seems it would be smarter to
> stay in US for 7 years and then look to teach overseas, but not sure? Any
> suggestions? Anyone trying to make similar decisions? I'm probably a tier
> three, possibly two teacher, so that's the level I could earn in IT.
>
> Also, how is the market for Computer Science for IT teachers? I was looking
> into getting trained in that area. Thanks...
------------------------
Just to clarify, you loans will be forgiven in 7 years? Because if just the interest is being paid under your current plan then the loan will never be paid off.
We both have/had student loans and would not have dreamed of letting them dictate our life/career plans. We did much better financially overseas based on salary/package/cost of living (in most places we have taught) and so some years we made payments, some years we took forbearance and until we are now both with DoDDS, making reasonable payments AND getting loan forgiveness.
If you really want to get out there in the world then do your research, and take the loans into account but don't let them be the final decider. I tend to disagree about most int'l teachers taking a pay cut, especially if you teach in the South, or areas of upstate NY etc. There are many, many decent to good schools outside of the 1st tier/elite that pay a good base salary and with the package (and possibly more favorable cost of living/tax situation) you could easily find yourself in a better financial situation overseas and able to make reasonable.
If you wonder about your marketability then apply to some schools and see what happens (you might want to join Search to help with your research). If you are relatively content where you are and really worried about the loans then stay put for 7 more years.
Discussion
@WT123
My interpretation when reading the LWs post was that they were using the income based repayment plan and paying only interest, but had been teaching for 3 years and only had 7 years to go before the remaining balance would be forgiven.
My interpretation when reading the LWs post was that they were using the income based repayment plan and paying only interest, but had been teaching for 3 years and only had 7 years to go before the remaining balance would be forgiven.
Re: Loans
Psyguy is correct. I've paid for 3 years and still have 7 to go to have it forgiven. May just defer payments if I end up overseas and then when I get back will finish the 6 or 7 ....
I don't know for certain, but according to some of the packages I have read about here and cost of living, I would make more money overseas. I work in North Carolina(one of the lowest paying states) and live in the most expensive city in North Carolina. So, financially it seems on the surface to be better. However, it's difficult to factor in the amount that I'd be putting into retirement working in the states and wouldn't be able to have a retirement fund overseas unless I end up in Europe. That's unlikely.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to comment. I have some thinking to do about future plans. May try the Search Boston/Cambridge next year and see what happens.
I don't know for certain, but according to some of the packages I have read about here and cost of living, I would make more money overseas. I work in North Carolina(one of the lowest paying states) and live in the most expensive city in North Carolina. So, financially it seems on the surface to be better. However, it's difficult to factor in the amount that I'd be putting into retirement working in the states and wouldn't be able to have a retirement fund overseas unless I end up in Europe. That's unlikely.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to comment. I have some thinking to do about future plans. May try the Search Boston/Cambridge next year and see what happens.
Reply
@wilcoman
Unless your at the handful of ISs that qualify as public service, you will not be earning/adding to your forgiveness years.
Being in NC, youd very likely do better economically in IE if you end up in any decent 3rd tier IS (floater) or better.
Retirement is an issue, I doubt your vested yet in your NC pension/retirement. Your options in IE for retirement are:
1) Already have a domestic vested retirement/pension program.
2) Do it Yourself: ISs (specifically in Asia) either have a pension scheme that is horrible, and/or they give you a bonus of between a month and half a month salary, you can of course choose to invest this. You can find various financial institutions/firms that will set up retirement accounts for you and you can invest what you want (your IS will be making no contributions or matching funds).
3) Work at one of the elite tier ISs you can retire out of that provide a retirement/pension program.
4) Relocate to the EU in a country that has a social insurance program that provides a retirement/pension.
I would agree with @WT123, start searching and get an idea of your marketability.
Unless your at the handful of ISs that qualify as public service, you will not be earning/adding to your forgiveness years.
Being in NC, youd very likely do better economically in IE if you end up in any decent 3rd tier IS (floater) or better.
Retirement is an issue, I doubt your vested yet in your NC pension/retirement. Your options in IE for retirement are:
1) Already have a domestic vested retirement/pension program.
2) Do it Yourself: ISs (specifically in Asia) either have a pension scheme that is horrible, and/or they give you a bonus of between a month and half a month salary, you can of course choose to invest this. You can find various financial institutions/firms that will set up retirement accounts for you and you can invest what you want (your IS will be making no contributions or matching funds).
3) Work at one of the elite tier ISs you can retire out of that provide a retirement/pension program.
4) Relocate to the EU in a country that has a social insurance program that provides a retirement/pension.
I would agree with @WT123, start searching and get an idea of your marketability.
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coughingfurballs
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am
Re: Loans
PsyGuy, you wrote: "Once you leave the US if you make a career out of IE, you can leave your loans behind. Thee are no effective enforcement actions the US could take to collect, and you will have a new credit profile."
You are so very wrong! Those "effective enforcement actions" ARE in place: you have just avoided detection thus far. The reach of that "effective enforcement" increases with every year, and you will be caught out eventually in a very unpleasant way. Do you have an American bank account or assets in the US? Do you plan to keep applying for new US passports? At some point, you will have a nasty surprise related to one of these thing.
I can't believe you are advising other Americans to run away from their loans. The only way this would work indefinitely is if the American never intends to return to the US, and if the American has no US bank account, no assets at home, and doesn't plan ever to collect SS or the like, and the American isn't planning on holding a US passport for the rest of his/her life.
PsyGuy, wow...I just...I can't even....
You are so very wrong! Those "effective enforcement actions" ARE in place: you have just avoided detection thus far. The reach of that "effective enforcement" increases with every year, and you will be caught out eventually in a very unpleasant way. Do you have an American bank account or assets in the US? Do you plan to keep applying for new US passports? At some point, you will have a nasty surprise related to one of these thing.
I can't believe you are advising other Americans to run away from their loans. The only way this would work indefinitely is if the American never intends to return to the US, and if the American has no US bank account, no assets at home, and doesn't plan ever to collect SS or the like, and the American isn't planning on holding a US passport for the rest of his/her life.
PsyGuy, wow...I just...I can't even....
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Loans
LOL. Actually, he's apparently no longer on the lam, he's reportedly just gaming the system: Basically paying a greatly reduced monthly amount while working at a school that qualifies for loan forgiveness thereby ensuring that after 10 years the debt disappears without having had to pay back any significant percentage of principal/accrued interest.
I'm not judging since he inspired me to game my own relatively modest loans in a similar way.
I would not advise people to run from their loans. I would advise that everyone investigate and use every possible legal/feasible option to meet their legal/financial obligations while doing the best they can for themselves and their families. I would also say that there are some ways that defaulting can come back to bite you and these can change pretty quickly but admittedly most of them will likely have a lessened impact if you are living overseas (e.g. tax refunds confiscated, wages garnished, professional licenses interfered with, possible lawsuit etc).
I'm not judging since he inspired me to game my own relatively modest loans in a similar way.
I would not advise people to run from their loans. I would advise that everyone investigate and use every possible legal/feasible option to meet their legal/financial obligations while doing the best they can for themselves and their families. I would also say that there are some ways that defaulting can come back to bite you and these can change pretty quickly but admittedly most of them will likely have a lessened impact if you are living overseas (e.g. tax refunds confiscated, wages garnished, professional licenses interfered with, possible lawsuit etc).
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coughingfurballs
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am
Re: Loans
Well, wrldtrvlr123, what you are describing is not what PsyGuy indicated, but I hope your summary of his situation is accurate.
I've met several overseas teachers who simply "walked away" from their loans, and don't seem to understand the implications for their future. I have a family member who works in financial planning, etc., and he's encountered multiple people whose families have employed him to fix the financial messes of people who tried to avoid paying their student loans.
Moderators, this would be a great blog topic.
I've met several overseas teachers who simply "walked away" from their loans, and don't seem to understand the implications for their future. I have a family member who works in financial planning, etc., and he's encountered multiple people whose families have employed him to fix the financial messes of people who tried to avoid paying their student loans.
Moderators, this would be a great blog topic.
Reply
@coughingfurballs
AWT123 is pretty accurate currently. However, before my current position what I wrote previously is absolutely correct. There are no viable enforcement actions for the collection of student loans on ITs. The two most common are 1) AWG (Administrative Wage Garnishment) none of those orders would be enforceable on a foreign IS. 2) Forfeiture of US tax refunds, which no IT should be receiving after their first year at most, if theres no tax refund there is nothing to forfeit.
Looking at your other penalties. A judgement by a court (the result of a successful suite) has to be enforced, the court gives you a piece of paper that a loan servicer has to turn into coin.
You can have a US bank account, to garnish a bank account and empty it, a loan server would need to successfully file a civil suite, and to do so they would have to effectively serve you, which is very close to impossible. There is no administrative process for attaching a bank account like there is for AWG/Tax refunds. Besides that my US bank account ran a a very small balance, and I could have easily done without it, there were whole years I didnt have a single transaction (other than the accumulation of interest).
Property is a none issue. Again you would have to be successfully sued and a loan servicer would need to identify assets that are available to cease, most states exempt the homestead so assuming you only have one house, the loan servicer cant force foreclosure, etc. Most states exempt a certain amount of value in a vehicle, so a servicer could could take possession of your vehicles. The rest of an individuals personal property isnt worth going after. Most ITs take anything of value with them, and used furniture and clothes, etc isnt worth the time or trouble. Likely the servicer would spend more than they would gain.
Most ITs at a certain point early in their IE careers sell their house, and vehicles, so its a moot point by the time a loan servicer is at a point they are considering an action, there isnt anything to sue for.
There is no current process to deny passports or renewal for those who default on student loans. The US recently increased the cost of those who wanted to renounce their US citizenship. The US is having trouble keeping citizens. It could happen but it isnt now. Before my current position it wouldnt have mattered I have dual EU citizenship anyway.
Aside from that you describe the scenario under which it works very well, many ITs become career ITs and lifelong expats. They may visit the states but they dont plan on repatriating back to the states.
AWT123 is pretty accurate currently. However, before my current position what I wrote previously is absolutely correct. There are no viable enforcement actions for the collection of student loans on ITs. The two most common are 1) AWG (Administrative Wage Garnishment) none of those orders would be enforceable on a foreign IS. 2) Forfeiture of US tax refunds, which no IT should be receiving after their first year at most, if theres no tax refund there is nothing to forfeit.
Looking at your other penalties. A judgement by a court (the result of a successful suite) has to be enforced, the court gives you a piece of paper that a loan servicer has to turn into coin.
You can have a US bank account, to garnish a bank account and empty it, a loan server would need to successfully file a civil suite, and to do so they would have to effectively serve you, which is very close to impossible. There is no administrative process for attaching a bank account like there is for AWG/Tax refunds. Besides that my US bank account ran a a very small balance, and I could have easily done without it, there were whole years I didnt have a single transaction (other than the accumulation of interest).
Property is a none issue. Again you would have to be successfully sued and a loan servicer would need to identify assets that are available to cease, most states exempt the homestead so assuming you only have one house, the loan servicer cant force foreclosure, etc. Most states exempt a certain amount of value in a vehicle, so a servicer could could take possession of your vehicles. The rest of an individuals personal property isnt worth going after. Most ITs take anything of value with them, and used furniture and clothes, etc isnt worth the time or trouble. Likely the servicer would spend more than they would gain.
Most ITs at a certain point early in their IE careers sell their house, and vehicles, so its a moot point by the time a loan servicer is at a point they are considering an action, there isnt anything to sue for.
There is no current process to deny passports or renewal for those who default on student loans. The US recently increased the cost of those who wanted to renounce their US citizenship. The US is having trouble keeping citizens. It could happen but it isnt now. Before my current position it wouldnt have mattered I have dual EU citizenship anyway.
Aside from that you describe the scenario under which it works very well, many ITs become career ITs and lifelong expats. They may visit the states but they dont plan on repatriating back to the states.
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coughingfurballs
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am
Re: Loans
PsyGuy,
If you have federal student loans (and most borrowers due), and you default on those loans, the government may garnish your wages and seize your tax returns without suing you in court or "serving you" with any kind of documentation. In addition, your credit will be destroyed, making it very difficult to buy a car, home, and many other inconveniences when you do return to the US. I know you don't plan to return, but most people do, and it is very irresponsible to tell them here that there are no consequences for defaulting on student loans. Finally, the IRS is working with the D. of Homeland Security in ways it hadn't in the recent past: I know someone who was denied a passport renewal because he hadn't filed income taxes in years, and was flagged by the IRS to Homeland Security. This is happening more and more frequently: don't you think the ever increasing scrutiny and government involvement with Homeland Security will eventually begin to catch up people who defaulted? I do.
And...it is disgusting for anyone to borrow money to pay for a degree that prepares for a job for which the salary ranges are known, and then just skip the country to ignore the debt.
If you have federal student loans (and most borrowers due), and you default on those loans, the government may garnish your wages and seize your tax returns without suing you in court or "serving you" with any kind of documentation. In addition, your credit will be destroyed, making it very difficult to buy a car, home, and many other inconveniences when you do return to the US. I know you don't plan to return, but most people do, and it is very irresponsible to tell them here that there are no consequences for defaulting on student loans. Finally, the IRS is working with the D. of Homeland Security in ways it hadn't in the recent past: I know someone who was denied a passport renewal because he hadn't filed income taxes in years, and was flagged by the IRS to Homeland Security. This is happening more and more frequently: don't you think the ever increasing scrutiny and government involvement with Homeland Security will eventually begin to catch up people who defaulted? I do.
And...it is disgusting for anyone to borrow money to pay for a degree that prepares for a job for which the salary ranges are known, and then just skip the country to ignore the debt.
Reply
@coughingfurballs
As I discussed above the lender can garnish US wages through an AWG (Administrative Wage Garnishment) or by offsetting your federal income tax refund without receiving a judgement or suing. They do have to notify you, and you are entitled to a hearing to contest either action. This is only in the US however, neither remedies have any enforcement outside the States. Actually, even then they have to sue if the employer refuses to honor/accept the AWG, but few corporations/businesses will pay legal fees to fight an employees AWG, unless its the owner or director of the business/company
Your US credit would be destroyed, well partially, but thats in the US. You get a new and clean credit record established in the new country, your US credit profile stops at the US border. Many ITs with horrible or damaged credit often get new credit cards, etc when they relocate abroad. Bank representatives will often sponsor one of the lunches at the IS during orientation and will in addition to opening bank accounts offer various credit accounts with sizable credit lines.
Most ITs that are career ITs dont plan to return to the States. You have the ITs that do there 2 year contract (or less) and leave education entirely. For the majority of career ITs they dont return to the States.
There arent any consequences that arent fixable and ultimately far, far, far, far less expensive than paying student loans. You can not pay anything for a decade (or longer) and then make a call, get on an income based repayment plan and rehabilitate your loans, which saves you X years of payments. Lenders and loan servicers dont have any emotion about it, they dont feel betrayed, or ripped off. Its not even a person your dealing with most of the time. When I recertify my Income based repayment I login to the website fill out a web form, and hit submit.
Income taxes arent student loans, your someone you know is irrelevant. Also its DOS not DHS that maintains and manages passports. DHS can put a transit stop on a passport but thats about it.
No I dont think it will catch up, but neither mine or your thoughts matter, its reality that defaulting on student loans has no effect on a US passport. Even if it did, so what? Cant renew your passport for student loans... Call your lender enter repayment, get renewal lifted, renew passport, stop paying again.
I think its disgusting for universities and colleges and lenders to prey on young adults barely out of high school and dazzle them with school/degree/major profiles and statistics for degrees that are unmarketable and worthless. Its fraud and disgusting when a university anthropology program siting an 80% employment rate when not a single graduate of their program is doing or has done anything in the actual field of anthropology for 20 years. I think its disgusting when for profit medical training programs ride coattails on the employment opportunities of nurses and trade level medical fields when their degrees are laughed at and dont even qualify their graduates for licensure. I think its disgusting to claim the salaries for a particular field are known, and conveniently ignore the number of graduates who cant find employment in that field. There are some actors making amazing coin in their profession and then there are a whole lot of theater graduates with a degree who are still slinging coffee at Starbucks. There are some amazing writers who are making star level coin, and then a whole lot of Comp. Lit. graduates who were working at Bookstores until Amazon destroyed them so now those comp. lit majors go to graduate school to get an MLS, and maybe if they beat out the other couple hundred applicants can get a job making USD$20K a year directing people where the library toilets are.
As I discussed above the lender can garnish US wages through an AWG (Administrative Wage Garnishment) or by offsetting your federal income tax refund without receiving a judgement or suing. They do have to notify you, and you are entitled to a hearing to contest either action. This is only in the US however, neither remedies have any enforcement outside the States. Actually, even then they have to sue if the employer refuses to honor/accept the AWG, but few corporations/businesses will pay legal fees to fight an employees AWG, unless its the owner or director of the business/company
Your US credit would be destroyed, well partially, but thats in the US. You get a new and clean credit record established in the new country, your US credit profile stops at the US border. Many ITs with horrible or damaged credit often get new credit cards, etc when they relocate abroad. Bank representatives will often sponsor one of the lunches at the IS during orientation and will in addition to opening bank accounts offer various credit accounts with sizable credit lines.
Most ITs that are career ITs dont plan to return to the States. You have the ITs that do there 2 year contract (or less) and leave education entirely. For the majority of career ITs they dont return to the States.
There arent any consequences that arent fixable and ultimately far, far, far, far less expensive than paying student loans. You can not pay anything for a decade (or longer) and then make a call, get on an income based repayment plan and rehabilitate your loans, which saves you X years of payments. Lenders and loan servicers dont have any emotion about it, they dont feel betrayed, or ripped off. Its not even a person your dealing with most of the time. When I recertify my Income based repayment I login to the website fill out a web form, and hit submit.
Income taxes arent student loans, your someone you know is irrelevant. Also its DOS not DHS that maintains and manages passports. DHS can put a transit stop on a passport but thats about it.
No I dont think it will catch up, but neither mine or your thoughts matter, its reality that defaulting on student loans has no effect on a US passport. Even if it did, so what? Cant renew your passport for student loans... Call your lender enter repayment, get renewal lifted, renew passport, stop paying again.
I think its disgusting for universities and colleges and lenders to prey on young adults barely out of high school and dazzle them with school/degree/major profiles and statistics for degrees that are unmarketable and worthless. Its fraud and disgusting when a university anthropology program siting an 80% employment rate when not a single graduate of their program is doing or has done anything in the actual field of anthropology for 20 years. I think its disgusting when for profit medical training programs ride coattails on the employment opportunities of nurses and trade level medical fields when their degrees are laughed at and dont even qualify their graduates for licensure. I think its disgusting to claim the salaries for a particular field are known, and conveniently ignore the number of graduates who cant find employment in that field. There are some actors making amazing coin in their profession and then there are a whole lot of theater graduates with a degree who are still slinging coffee at Starbucks. There are some amazing writers who are making star level coin, and then a whole lot of Comp. Lit. graduates who were working at Bookstores until Amazon destroyed them so now those comp. lit majors go to graduate school to get an MLS, and maybe if they beat out the other couple hundred applicants can get a job making USD$20K a year directing people where the library toilets are.
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coughingfurballs
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am
Re: Loans
PsyGuy,
You are painfully ill-informed, and I hope nobody is encouraged to bail on their loans due to your reckless and irresponsible posts re: the matter.
Also, your opinion about the ethics of the loan situation doesn't change the fact that you borrowed money, knowing the implications and terms, and knowing the salary potential of a teacher.
You are painfully ill-informed, and I hope nobody is encouraged to bail on their loans due to your reckless and irresponsible posts re: the matter.
Also, your opinion about the ethics of the loan situation doesn't change the fact that you borrowed money, knowing the implications and terms, and knowing the salary potential of a teacher.
Reply
@coughingfurballs
No Im accurate, you just dont have the data to support your claims. You just have scary campfire stories that you cant support.
Most of the ITs I have met were either grossly lied too about education by their Universities or teaching is what they fell back on when they couldnt earn a living in their degree field. A lot of teachers are still looking for that perfect classroom you see so many times in movies and TV, no ones high school is like Glee.
Many fields especially in liberal arts have no corresponding business value. There are lots of History majors, yet the world needs very few historians. Even fields like maths, there isnt a lot of demand for mathematicians with a BS. Same with Physics, not a lot of need for Physicists with a BS degree. A BS in Chemistry will get you working in a lab somewhere as someones gopher. A BS in Biology will prepare you for grad school and nothing else for you, the world only needs a few marine and wild life biologists. The only bachelor degrees that produce job ready graduates are CompSci, engineering and business. A lot of those secondary ITs/DTs didnt go into University with dreams of being teachers, they got 3-4 years into their degree and realized they needed a job, and teaching was the only way they could see themselves getting a salary doing something in their major.
No Im accurate, you just dont have the data to support your claims. You just have scary campfire stories that you cant support.
Most of the ITs I have met were either grossly lied too about education by their Universities or teaching is what they fell back on when they couldnt earn a living in their degree field. A lot of teachers are still looking for that perfect classroom you see so many times in movies and TV, no ones high school is like Glee.
Many fields especially in liberal arts have no corresponding business value. There are lots of History majors, yet the world needs very few historians. Even fields like maths, there isnt a lot of demand for mathematicians with a BS. Same with Physics, not a lot of need for Physicists with a BS degree. A BS in Chemistry will get you working in a lab somewhere as someones gopher. A BS in Biology will prepare you for grad school and nothing else for you, the world only needs a few marine and wild life biologists. The only bachelor degrees that produce job ready graduates are CompSci, engineering and business. A lot of those secondary ITs/DTs didnt go into University with dreams of being teachers, they got 3-4 years into their degree and realized they needed a job, and teaching was the only way they could see themselves getting a salary doing something in their major.
Re: Loans
It is a crime how the college/loan systems work--but the fact remains--if you take loans outs, you need to repay them. That is what ethical, moral people do. If you were a person who used your student loans to attend a college you really couldn't afford, or one who used your student loans to finance your spring break and Christmas break trips, then yes--you have DEBT.
That being said--lots of people struggle with student loan debt, esp. those who choose professions where even a good income will make paying back loans a challenge.
My problem with PsyGuy's advice (aside from the nasty feeling of cheating and stealing that it sends) is that people who are in the loan situation are probably in their 20s or 30s. Do you really know that you'll be leaving the US FOREVER--never to come back to live, to retire, to do anything? Life is crazy unpredictable. Defaulting on your student loans (being 270+ days in arrears) means that you may lose the chance to participate in deferment or repayment plans. It ruins your credit score, so no car or home loan (or loans for your own kids who may need them). It means your wages and tax returns can be garnished. It means that it's a debt that can't be discharged even in bankruptcy. That's a LOT of overhead to think about in your younger-ish adult life and say, I'll never go back to the US.
I know a number of teachers working in areas/schools where it's not a great fit, but they know if they put in 2-3 years, they can pay off their debts. I personally wouldn't--and I wouldn't recommend--just walking away from loans like that because you never know what life hands you. We and 2 other families were hit with cancer diagnoses--forced to return to the States and spend time we never thought we would have to do. Be honest, work hard, do your best, keep your options open, protect yourself.
That being said--lots of people struggle with student loan debt, esp. those who choose professions where even a good income will make paying back loans a challenge.
My problem with PsyGuy's advice (aside from the nasty feeling of cheating and stealing that it sends) is that people who are in the loan situation are probably in their 20s or 30s. Do you really know that you'll be leaving the US FOREVER--never to come back to live, to retire, to do anything? Life is crazy unpredictable. Defaulting on your student loans (being 270+ days in arrears) means that you may lose the chance to participate in deferment or repayment plans. It ruins your credit score, so no car or home loan (or loans for your own kids who may need them). It means your wages and tax returns can be garnished. It means that it's a debt that can't be discharged even in bankruptcy. That's a LOT of overhead to think about in your younger-ish adult life and say, I'll never go back to the US.
I know a number of teachers working in areas/schools where it's not a great fit, but they know if they put in 2-3 years, they can pay off their debts. I personally wouldn't--and I wouldn't recommend--just walking away from loans like that because you never know what life hands you. We and 2 other families were hit with cancer diagnoses--forced to return to the States and spend time we never thought we would have to do. Be honest, work hard, do your best, keep your options open, protect yourself.