I don't think it's possible to come up with a definitive list. For once I agree with PG.
I also agree that compensation and work environment should be on everyone's list. So, again I agree with PG. However, there are certain subtleties that most educators do not consider. There are many ways to determine if a school is right for you. Here are some of the factors teachers could consider in order to decide if they will enjoy working at a school or not.
Is it non-profit. I don't believe that a school can be worthwhile if the bottom line is money.
One could use IB scores (for DP schools). Often times tiers are not aligned with facts. I guarantee that quite a few of the schools on the lists in these posts would not be up there if we took a look at their recent performance.
Ranking of the universities students enroll in is also an indicator of success.
You could also take a look at how well articulated the curriculum is all the way through. Is there a fully thought out and successful continuum? Is it even a documented curriculum? You'd be surprised to find how many of the top tier schools on the lists don't actually have anything written down!
How about taking a look at a school's pastoral programme? Are students provided with emotional and social support in order to succeed? Many 'top tier' schools in my experience are quite selective and either reject outright weaker candidates or weed them out leading into the DP. So, does the school have programmes in place to help weaker academic students?
If the school isn't selective, what does it do to keep school-wide expectations high? Schools in Bangkok, Singapore and Shanghai, for example, can be very selective. Schools in other cities, like in Africa and South America, can't because there are only one or two schools in town. This means that when a family moves in from overseas, the schools pretty much have to allow the children in.
Is the school leaning more toward a British or US style of education? I only see a handful of British international schools on the list...how about considering if you want a full IB Continuum school?
So, lots of things to consider...
I would have to say that Escuela Campo Alegre continues to be a top school for South America. They have excellent programmes, manage to keep all stake holders involved and generally happy and they recently upped salaries and finished a new addition to an already fantastic facility. They are also non-selective and continue to have excellent DP scores which allows their graduates to go onto great universities.
Master List of Tier 1 Schools?
One could use IB scores (for DP schools).[quote]
Lots of good thoughts on this subject, but I'm not sure that using DP scores, or A levels, or anything like that, would actually be a definitive measure, because you wouldn't be comparing apples to apples. Some schools run very selective DP programs, only letting the very best students in. They usually get great results, but those results reflect the value of the students, not of what the school added. Other schools are more welcoming of a variety of levels of students. Their results are generally lower, and in my mind their success reflects the value of the school and what the teachers add.
But really, there are so many different admissions scenarios, and levels of teaching, that it's hard to assign a definitive reason for why school A had higher results than school B, unless you really know the full backgrounds.
And as with all the other posters here, which scenario is the one you want to work in? Some will prefer teaching the very best and brightest, while others prefer the value-added approach. Which is Tier One? Up to the individual.[/quote]
Lots of good thoughts on this subject, but I'm not sure that using DP scores, or A levels, or anything like that, would actually be a definitive measure, because you wouldn't be comparing apples to apples. Some schools run very selective DP programs, only letting the very best students in. They usually get great results, but those results reflect the value of the students, not of what the school added. Other schools are more welcoming of a variety of levels of students. Their results are generally lower, and in my mind their success reflects the value of the school and what the teachers add.
But really, there are so many different admissions scenarios, and levels of teaching, that it's hard to assign a definitive reason for why school A had higher results than school B, unless you really know the full backgrounds.
And as with all the other posters here, which scenario is the one you want to work in? Some will prefer teaching the very best and brightest, while others prefer the value-added approach. Which is Tier One? Up to the individual.[/quote]
Regarding DP scores.
As far as I'm aware the highest scoring school in SE Asia is Anglo-Chinese School (Independent), Singapore. Their recent scores from the last November session are amazing!
I have a friend working there who encouraged me to apply for the currently advertised positions, but when I enquired about expat packages I was told forget it, there aren't any!!!
So results don't equate to good packages...
As far as I'm aware the highest scoring school in SE Asia is Anglo-Chinese School (Independent), Singapore. Their recent scores from the last November session are amazing!
I have a friend working there who encouraged me to apply for the currently advertised positions, but when I enquired about expat packages I was told forget it, there aren't any!!!
So results don't equate to good packages...
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Snowbeavers
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:56 pm
[quote="Ddd"]Bangkok Patana School
NIST Bkk
Alice Smith KL
Tanglin Trust School Sg
British School of Manila[/quote]
NIST is the only one there that is a tier 1. I've been to Alice Smith and Tanglin.. not even close.
My list after living in Asia for more than 10 years and have worked at several of the below:
ISB (Beijing)
WAB
ISB (Bangkok)
NIST
Yokohama
Taipei
ISM
ISKL
SAS
UWC
JIS
HKIS
Shanghai American
NIST Bkk
Alice Smith KL
Tanglin Trust School Sg
British School of Manila[/quote]
NIST is the only one there that is a tier 1. I've been to Alice Smith and Tanglin.. not even close.
My list after living in Asia for more than 10 years and have worked at several of the below:
ISB (Beijing)
WAB
ISB (Bangkok)
NIST
Yokohama
Taipei
ISM
ISKL
SAS
UWC
JIS
HKIS
Shanghai American
Discussion
IB scores or any other scoring metric would create a number of issues. Many schools have "selective" IBDP admission programs, meaning only the brightest are even allowed to do DIP. Another issue is that you can only test in 3-4 subjects depending on the school and students typically choose those tests they will do their best at. It would also be difficult to "weight" the different subject exams, a student who tests HL Physics is different then one that tests in HL Biology.
College/University acceptance rates would have no utility, so many schools have nearly a 100% acceptance rate, even a student who does poorly, can typically afford to get into somewhere.
College/University acceptance rates would have no utility, so many schools have nearly a 100% acceptance rate, even a student who does poorly, can typically afford to get into somewhere.
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
DP scores explicitly show the quality of a school's educational programmes whether you like it or not. Who cares if the programme is incredibly selective? If a school has an average score of 38+ it would be foolish to say that it is not a 'good' school academically. Whether you want to work at that school or not is another issue.
I stated in my post that '[u]rankings[/u] of the universities students enroll in' is an indication of a school's successful educational programmes - not the random university acceptance rates for that school. If you have students consistently enrolling (and I don't mean one student getting accepted into 5 top unis) in the top 20 universities in the world then your school is doing something right. Again, if you want to work at a school like that it's up to you.
I don't understand PG's claims about students only taking 3-4 exams in the DP - only the exams that they will do well in. This constitutes the minority of students at top international schools and those scores don't go towards diploma averages anyway.
The weight question is a non-issue. A DP score stands by itself. Weights have nothing to do with it at all.
I stated in my post that '[u]rankings[/u] of the universities students enroll in' is an indication of a school's successful educational programmes - not the random university acceptance rates for that school. If you have students consistently enrolling (and I don't mean one student getting accepted into 5 top unis) in the top 20 universities in the world then your school is doing something right. Again, if you want to work at a school like that it's up to you.
I don't understand PG's claims about students only taking 3-4 exams in the DP - only the exams that they will do well in. This constitutes the minority of students at top international schools and those scores don't go towards diploma averages anyway.
The weight question is a non-issue. A DP score stands by itself. Weights have nothing to do with it at all.
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Yantantether
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:41 am
Comment
@calciodirigore
People who know more about research design and statistics care a GREAT deal about if a school has a selective admission process into IB. Its called exclusion bias. When you "exclude" a set of the population that you want to study and then attempt to generalize those results to the excluded set of the population. When a school does not have an "open" admission standard then the IB scores are only representative of those students that were admitted. You can not extrapolate those conclusions to the general population of students.
No it would be very foolish to claim that an average score of 38+ or 42+ etc, is validity of any type of knowledge claim without understanding and accepting the assumptions and limitations of that result. If I take a school of 100 students and "admit" the top two students who receive scores of 36 and 40, it would be EXTREAMLY foolish and naive to claim that the average of those scores (38) is representative of the entire student population.
Whose rankings? Im not aware of any regulatory authority that has produced a tertiary ranking scale that has survived any type of scientific review. Rankings as generated by news Week, etc are little more then popularity surveys.
Their is no basis for your claim that any success of the student can be attributable to any actions of the school and and its education program. In absence of a pretest you cant determine that the students enrollment in this "top" university is a direct result of instruction. The student may very well have been admitted and enrolled without the influence of your school, or the education program of another school.
No exam scores dont "stand on their own". One of the problems with IB assessment is that it commingles objective standardized assessment with what can be very subjective internal assessment.
People who know more about research design and statistics care a GREAT deal about if a school has a selective admission process into IB. Its called exclusion bias. When you "exclude" a set of the population that you want to study and then attempt to generalize those results to the excluded set of the population. When a school does not have an "open" admission standard then the IB scores are only representative of those students that were admitted. You can not extrapolate those conclusions to the general population of students.
No it would be very foolish to claim that an average score of 38+ or 42+ etc, is validity of any type of knowledge claim without understanding and accepting the assumptions and limitations of that result. If I take a school of 100 students and "admit" the top two students who receive scores of 36 and 40, it would be EXTREAMLY foolish and naive to claim that the average of those scores (38) is representative of the entire student population.
Whose rankings? Im not aware of any regulatory authority that has produced a tertiary ranking scale that has survived any type of scientific review. Rankings as generated by news Week, etc are little more then popularity surveys.
Their is no basis for your claim that any success of the student can be attributable to any actions of the school and and its education program. In absence of a pretest you cant determine that the students enrollment in this "top" university is a direct result of instruction. The student may very well have been admitted and enrolled without the influence of your school, or the education program of another school.
No exam scores dont "stand on their own". One of the problems with IB assessment is that it commingles objective standardized assessment with what can be very subjective internal assessment.
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
I was never referring to selective IB programmes. I was referring to selective schools in general. That is why an average score of 38+ for this type of school is significant.
What type of school has a DP cohort of 100 students with only 2 taking exams? This is a ludicrous example. You clearly have never worked at a genuine DP school.
The THES, Lisbon Council and the OECD are pretty reliable sources for detailing the strengths of individual schools and local systems. Although works in progress and not without their faults, these are but a few of the highly respected and universally used listings.
Your comment about their being no basis for the claim that student success can be attributed to a school is laughable.
DP internal assessment is externally moderated. Any school worth its salt conducts extensive internal moderation on top of that – usually led by a staff member who is an examiner. Again, this shows that you have never worked at a genuine DP school.
What type of school has a DP cohort of 100 students with only 2 taking exams? This is a ludicrous example. You clearly have never worked at a genuine DP school.
The THES, Lisbon Council and the OECD are pretty reliable sources for detailing the strengths of individual schools and local systems. Although works in progress and not without their faults, these are but a few of the highly respected and universally used listings.
Your comment about their being no basis for the claim that student success can be attributed to a school is laughable.
DP internal assessment is externally moderated. Any school worth its salt conducts extensive internal moderation on top of that – usually led by a staff member who is an examiner. Again, this shows that you have never worked at a genuine DP school.
Comment
@calciodirigore
No selective is exclusionary regardless of the stage of admission, but the issue is comparing selective admission IB programs with open IB admission programs. Since that actually happens, you can not generalize or extrapolate the two.
This is called an example, I know of no IBDP program that has 100 students and only 2 IBDP students, the example is meant to illustrate the problem of generalizing to a non representative population.
Pretty reliable is not experimentally reliable, your anecdotal claim that they are reliable is unpersuasive. if you have some statistically valid research data to supply, i would be happy to reevaluate your claim.
Your claim that a a schools education program is causal to student performance is more laughable and tragic, if you can data can prove causation I would be more then happy to retract my comment.
Yes Internal assessment is externally moderated, External moderators are as capable of bias and error as teachers conducting the actual internal assessment. That protocol doesnt eliminate the bias/error. Its not even close actually the error in internal assessment is SIGNIFICANTLY higher then external exams. You dont know the IBO and you dont know research design.
No selective is exclusionary regardless of the stage of admission, but the issue is comparing selective admission IB programs with open IB admission programs. Since that actually happens, you can not generalize or extrapolate the two.
This is called an example, I know of no IBDP program that has 100 students and only 2 IBDP students, the example is meant to illustrate the problem of generalizing to a non representative population.
Pretty reliable is not experimentally reliable, your anecdotal claim that they are reliable is unpersuasive. if you have some statistically valid research data to supply, i would be happy to reevaluate your claim.
Your claim that a a schools education program is causal to student performance is more laughable and tragic, if you can data can prove causation I would be more then happy to retract my comment.
Yes Internal assessment is externally moderated, External moderators are as capable of bias and error as teachers conducting the actual internal assessment. That protocol doesnt eliminate the bias/error. Its not even close actually the error in internal assessment is SIGNIFICANTLY higher then external exams. You dont know the IBO and you dont know research design.
Re: Master List of Tier 1 Schools?
Reviving this for the 2014-5 schooyear. Here would be my top 10:
Concordia Shanghai
Singapore American
Shanghai American
WAB
ISB (Beijing)
JIS
IS Manila
Taipei American
NIST
ISKL
Concordia Shanghai
Singapore American
Shanghai American
WAB
ISB (Beijing)
JIS
IS Manila
Taipei American
NIST
ISKL