Greetings all!
First, I have read countless posts/replies here and I really appreciate that you support each other in the ways you do on the forum. I have gained a lot as a member here!
Shoutout to Thames who has provided me some insights already.
I am contacting you all for your perspective on my situation...
Quick Bio:
Trailing spouse & 2.5 year old (so 2 dependents)
Certified teacher in Business, Management, Marketing and Technology (a USA/Michigan cert)
Also have a occupational certification in marketing, sales and service - which may mean nothing in IT???
5+ years of experience in teaching (at a vocational center - covering a very wide array of content - economics, marketing, management, selling, psychology, etc)
Coaching experience
Also non-teaching experiences in sales and management
Strong references
Signed up with Search
Pursuing business studies or econ (though I also could be serviceable as a college counselor as it is part of my job right now)
The Good:
I teach for the right reasons and I’m pursuing IT for reasons other than money or escaping something (I’m sure they all say that)
I think my resume & cover letter game is better than average (“think” being the key word there)
I’m good in an interview - probably jinxing it, but I haven’t lost one yet
Great supporting wife that is all-in on pursuing this career move (though I’m sure they all say that too)
I’m flexible geographically
I have great gig and make good coin, so I’m not desperate by any means
The bad:
An operating under the influence conviction 11 years ago - can not get this expunged in Michigan (though I have a miracle-chance of getting a governors pardon) *I have read some suggestions of not disclosing this and that’s just not me
No IT experience - some international business experience
No IB experience
My network of international teaching connections is effectively non-existent (besides sitting on the sidelines of this forum)
The 2-dependent factor
Not willing to take a step back in my career (3rd tier in terms of pay/benefits) - that’s part of my risk management strategy
I have NO IDEA what I am up against in this job market... I like to know my competition, but this market offers little by way of metrics
I have contacted schools (and applied to a couple) - I am not shocked that I haven’t heard back with lacking experience. I am signed up for the Boston fair. I am farming these forums and constantly reading through school Websites. I’m writing a new cover letter for a different school about once a week.
I just find myself wondering... What the ____ am I doing? I feel like I am spinning my tires. Is there anything I am missing? I will get IB training on my own dime, but I don’t really want to do it to get a job, rather to best prepare myself for success in the classroom. I would like to do any training closer to the start of my first year in IT (while it is fresh in mind).
I’ll take any feedback you want to provide.
I appreciate you all!
Spinning Tires
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Spinning Tires
Some thoughts:
You can probably aim for a tier 2 in most places. Your conviction will probably make it more difficult in Europe than in other places, but it really depends. That and the lack of a traditional middle or high school will likely be your biggest hurdle. I have no idea how the conviction might affect your application, so I will speak as if it were not there (though I agree--you should disclose it).
I would seriously consider the IB Econ training. Some years, finding good econ teachers is easy, but other years IB econ teachers are rare. While experience trumps training every time, this training does two things for you; it sets you above the "I have business experience and teach social studies, so yes, I could teach econ" crowd and it demonstrates that your background in business is a supplement to your pedagogy rather than the other way around. It solidifies your teacher cred since you aren't in a traditional program. While it is nice to get it for the right reasons (and you can get a lot out of the training that will apply any time), the level 1 trainings are generally about the structure of the course and the philosophy of IB rather than pedagogy. When you are hired, you can go straight to a level 2 training, and regardless of how old (within reason) your level 1 is and what your experience is, if you are halfway able to read up on things you will be fine going straight into level 2. So don't feel guilty about doing the training to get a job.
As for the counselling, I would say have a separate resume for those jobs, but don't spend too much time pursuing them. You might be able to do something with that in a lower tier school in a country where everyone wants to study in the US, but unless your experience is extensive and particular to an international community/international universities, I wouldn't expect this job. Once you are in a school, you could always expand this part of your resume.
As to your competitiveness, I would say it really depends. Some friends and I were just discussing that schools want to be able to see references straight away, and teachers like to see salary and such straight away. That is Search's business model. So strong references can make you competitive when you wouldn't otherwise be, particularly in a more specialised field. I would say for this point in the season, you aren't competitive. Early jobs go to either the desperate schools hiring the people willing to take any job or the top teachers. Right now, schools can afford to be picky because they know many top teachers are still deciding whether to move on or where they want to go. However, by the time Boston rolls around, you are likely to be competitive. The big fairs are BKK and LON, so if schools haven't filled jobs by then, they will definitely be looking at you, particularly for econ.
Your strength will be in your personal game rather than on paper, so going to a fair, particularly BOS, is a good choice. You are likely the type of person people might bypass on paper but will interview when you make your pitch at a fair. So even with limited nibbles now you have a decent shot once you are actually at the fair. Our first IT job was like this--we knew we could land a good job if we could only get to recruiters in person rather than on paper since we didn't have IB/IT experience. People thought we were nuts, but we ended up at a nice tier 2 and got our IB/IT experience even though we were not popular candidates with slips in our boxes, etc. We did it primarily on personal interactions. So if that is your A-game (and it sounds like it is--that you are exactly who you claim to be, which is surprisingly rare and appealing to recruiters), expect that at the fair you can be reasonably competitive. I wouldn't expect much now, but don't let that bother you. Keep doing what you are doing.
Be patient and persistent. Look for ways to improve your resume--being part of a positive behaviour team, for example, or a leadership role such as HOD. Be clear on what you want (don't settle), but be open minded. There is a balance there! When we did our first job fair, we did it with the idea in mind that we would take something great, but that we were likely to come away without jobs because we weren't willing to settle. It was sort of a trial run job fair. We could have had jobs we didn't want, but we went home without anything and went home wiser and more prepared, more networked, and with a clearer plan of action. A year later, we got jobs we wanted. I think you are way ahead of where we were that first year, but if you are not desperate, then enjoy the process and take the time you need to get the job you want.
Good luck and keep us posted!
You can probably aim for a tier 2 in most places. Your conviction will probably make it more difficult in Europe than in other places, but it really depends. That and the lack of a traditional middle or high school will likely be your biggest hurdle. I have no idea how the conviction might affect your application, so I will speak as if it were not there (though I agree--you should disclose it).
I would seriously consider the IB Econ training. Some years, finding good econ teachers is easy, but other years IB econ teachers are rare. While experience trumps training every time, this training does two things for you; it sets you above the "I have business experience and teach social studies, so yes, I could teach econ" crowd and it demonstrates that your background in business is a supplement to your pedagogy rather than the other way around. It solidifies your teacher cred since you aren't in a traditional program. While it is nice to get it for the right reasons (and you can get a lot out of the training that will apply any time), the level 1 trainings are generally about the structure of the course and the philosophy of IB rather than pedagogy. When you are hired, you can go straight to a level 2 training, and regardless of how old (within reason) your level 1 is and what your experience is, if you are halfway able to read up on things you will be fine going straight into level 2. So don't feel guilty about doing the training to get a job.
As for the counselling, I would say have a separate resume for those jobs, but don't spend too much time pursuing them. You might be able to do something with that in a lower tier school in a country where everyone wants to study in the US, but unless your experience is extensive and particular to an international community/international universities, I wouldn't expect this job. Once you are in a school, you could always expand this part of your resume.
As to your competitiveness, I would say it really depends. Some friends and I were just discussing that schools want to be able to see references straight away, and teachers like to see salary and such straight away. That is Search's business model. So strong references can make you competitive when you wouldn't otherwise be, particularly in a more specialised field. I would say for this point in the season, you aren't competitive. Early jobs go to either the desperate schools hiring the people willing to take any job or the top teachers. Right now, schools can afford to be picky because they know many top teachers are still deciding whether to move on or where they want to go. However, by the time Boston rolls around, you are likely to be competitive. The big fairs are BKK and LON, so if schools haven't filled jobs by then, they will definitely be looking at you, particularly for econ.
Your strength will be in your personal game rather than on paper, so going to a fair, particularly BOS, is a good choice. You are likely the type of person people might bypass on paper but will interview when you make your pitch at a fair. So even with limited nibbles now you have a decent shot once you are actually at the fair. Our first IT job was like this--we knew we could land a good job if we could only get to recruiters in person rather than on paper since we didn't have IB/IT experience. People thought we were nuts, but we ended up at a nice tier 2 and got our IB/IT experience even though we were not popular candidates with slips in our boxes, etc. We did it primarily on personal interactions. So if that is your A-game (and it sounds like it is--that you are exactly who you claim to be, which is surprisingly rare and appealing to recruiters), expect that at the fair you can be reasonably competitive. I wouldn't expect much now, but don't let that bother you. Keep doing what you are doing.
Be patient and persistent. Look for ways to improve your resume--being part of a positive behaviour team, for example, or a leadership role such as HOD. Be clear on what you want (don't settle), but be open minded. There is a balance there! When we did our first job fair, we did it with the idea in mind that we would take something great, but that we were likely to come away without jobs because we weren't willing to settle. It was sort of a trial run job fair. We could have had jobs we didn't want, but we went home without anything and went home wiser and more prepared, more networked, and with a clearer plan of action. A year later, we got jobs we wanted. I think you are way ahead of where we were that first year, but if you are not desperate, then enjoy the process and take the time you need to get the job you want.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Response
So whats your response to the "What the ____ am I doing?"? You dont have any good, you just have bad and then afterwards listed some generic and rather valueless traits so that you had something in the good column to look at. What your missing is you have little to offer and are a logistically difficult hire (meaning expensive). Your DUI is not really all that important or damaging. The MAJOR issues are:
1) You have zero years of experience, your work in a vocational center, assuming its with adults isnt worth anything in IE.
2) Your "occupational certification in marketing, sales and service" is worth nothing your state credential has utility.
3) Coaching experience isnt worth anything unless its at the pro or Olympic level and your being considered for that type of vacancy. Everyone does ASPs and the ISs PHE staff probably do all the sports.
4) Non-teaching experiences in sales and management means nothing.
5) Strong references that arent in education there better than nothing, but not by much.
6) Everyone thinks their resume and interview skills are awesome, every IT thinks they are awesome.
7) You arent qualified to be a counselor, there are ITs in counselor positions who have moved up within the institution as there really isnt much mental health involved, but you dont even have IE/DE experience.
None of your items under "good" mean any value in IE except for being geographically flexible.
Now looking at your bad:
1) After 11 years not really that big of an issue anymore after 11 years.
2) You have no IE experience and no DE experience, you just have zero experience when it comes to IE.
3) Well most ITs come into IE without any contacts, and they find jobs
4) Wont settle for third tier. This is probably the second worse part of your resume. You are an intern class IT and you want to start near the top and you have a 3:1 traveler ration (expensive hire).
IB Training wont get you a job in IE, its nice a bit of a savings but everyone knows level 1 workshops are mostly worthless.
I have no idea why @Thames Pirate would say you were competitive at second tier, you arent. Your not even competitive for a floater third tier. You would be hard pressed with your resume to get into third tier at all considering your certification areas arent in very high demand.
None of the things @Thames Pirate has commented on about the benefits of IB Econ training are true, they are basically bunk. 17 hours or the online equivalent of going through the course syllabus means nothing. An art IT with NO maths background could successfully complete the IB maths training workshop. Level 2 workshops arent really much better.
I dont see any IS except really low tier and desperate ISs interested in you, and since you have a great job now I dont see them offering you anything youd be willing to take. Could you talk yourself into an interview, maybe if your as good as you say you are at the pitch. Id focus your efforts at presentations more where you have more time. Signup can be brutal and unless you have that magic charisma that works in 10 seconds, I think youre going to be disappointed.
While there are tier 2 and tier 1 ISs at BOS, they are not the majority, most of the ISs there and that will show interest in you are going to be third tier ISs and I think once you see their offers, your going to be shaking your head.
@Thames Pirate and I strongly disagree and butt heads over confidence compensates for competence, I think it appeals to those who lack the competence, but luck is a factor and right place right time can win the day. I see you as having a lot of frustration coming out of BOS.
1) You have zero years of experience, your work in a vocational center, assuming its with adults isnt worth anything in IE.
2) Your "occupational certification in marketing, sales and service" is worth nothing your state credential has utility.
3) Coaching experience isnt worth anything unless its at the pro or Olympic level and your being considered for that type of vacancy. Everyone does ASPs and the ISs PHE staff probably do all the sports.
4) Non-teaching experiences in sales and management means nothing.
5) Strong references that arent in education there better than nothing, but not by much.
6) Everyone thinks their resume and interview skills are awesome, every IT thinks they are awesome.
7) You arent qualified to be a counselor, there are ITs in counselor positions who have moved up within the institution as there really isnt much mental health involved, but you dont even have IE/DE experience.
None of your items under "good" mean any value in IE except for being geographically flexible.
Now looking at your bad:
1) After 11 years not really that big of an issue anymore after 11 years.
2) You have no IE experience and no DE experience, you just have zero experience when it comes to IE.
3) Well most ITs come into IE without any contacts, and they find jobs
4) Wont settle for third tier. This is probably the second worse part of your resume. You are an intern class IT and you want to start near the top and you have a 3:1 traveler ration (expensive hire).
IB Training wont get you a job in IE, its nice a bit of a savings but everyone knows level 1 workshops are mostly worthless.
I have no idea why @Thames Pirate would say you were competitive at second tier, you arent. Your not even competitive for a floater third tier. You would be hard pressed with your resume to get into third tier at all considering your certification areas arent in very high demand.
None of the things @Thames Pirate has commented on about the benefits of IB Econ training are true, they are basically bunk. 17 hours or the online equivalent of going through the course syllabus means nothing. An art IT with NO maths background could successfully complete the IB maths training workshop. Level 2 workshops arent really much better.
I dont see any IS except really low tier and desperate ISs interested in you, and since you have a great job now I dont see them offering you anything youd be willing to take. Could you talk yourself into an interview, maybe if your as good as you say you are at the pitch. Id focus your efforts at presentations more where you have more time. Signup can be brutal and unless you have that magic charisma that works in 10 seconds, I think youre going to be disappointed.
While there are tier 2 and tier 1 ISs at BOS, they are not the majority, most of the ISs there and that will show interest in you are going to be third tier ISs and I think once you see their offers, your going to be shaking your head.
@Thames Pirate and I strongly disagree and butt heads over confidence compensates for competence, I think it appeals to those who lack the competence, but luck is a factor and right place right time can win the day. I see you as having a lot of frustration coming out of BOS.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Spinning Tires
As always, I don't believe confidence is a substitute for confidence, but he always likes to attribute that sentiment to me . . . .
You can take the "it's hopeless" approach or you can consider what I have said. I will stand by it. A capable and dedicated person is appealing, and those traits do transmit, both on paper and especially in person. They often lead schools to hire someone who, on paper, isn't as strong. You know your resume and your skills. You know the nature of your vocational program and how to put it on paper. Trust your instincts on how to apply the myriad things you have read, here and elsewhere.
Good luck and keep us posted!
You can take the "it's hopeless" approach or you can consider what I have said. I will stand by it. A capable and dedicated person is appealing, and those traits do transmit, both on paper and especially in person. They often lead schools to hire someone who, on paper, isn't as strong. You know your resume and your skills. You know the nature of your vocational program and how to put it on paper. Trust your instincts on how to apply the myriad things you have read, here and elsewhere.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Reply
@Thames Pirate
"I don't believe confidence is a substitute for confidence", no its confidence is a substitute for competence.
As always you do, youre doing it now just as youve done so in the past.
As likewise I consider my position sufficiently strong to withstand debate.
Sure capable and dedicated do transmit during an interview, there isnt anything in the LWs bio that indicates their capability, its just the LW claiming that their vocational center experience transfers to K12/KS. Its nothing but unsupported claims, pixie dust and rainbow. How do you get dedicated in a 30 minute interview, because a candidate says they are?
How would you know these other candidates are stronger than the one on paper, how do you test those alternative hypotheses? You dont, its just more @Thames Pirate says so, thus it must be true.
All that though isnt going to be the problem, its going to be the LW. When all is said and done it wont be tier 2 or better ISs its going to be tier 3 ISs and once the LW sees the package and offer the LW will shake their head and walk away. Why because the LW has a spouse and a child to support and the cut in coin is going to be too much considering the ISs and the regions that get that far.
"I don't believe confidence is a substitute for confidence", no its confidence is a substitute for competence.
As always you do, youre doing it now just as youve done so in the past.
As likewise I consider my position sufficiently strong to withstand debate.
Sure capable and dedicated do transmit during an interview, there isnt anything in the LWs bio that indicates their capability, its just the LW claiming that their vocational center experience transfers to K12/KS. Its nothing but unsupported claims, pixie dust and rainbow. How do you get dedicated in a 30 minute interview, because a candidate says they are?
How would you know these other candidates are stronger than the one on paper, how do you test those alternative hypotheses? You dont, its just more @Thames Pirate says so, thus it must be true.
All that though isnt going to be the problem, its going to be the LW. When all is said and done it wont be tier 2 or better ISs its going to be tier 3 ISs and once the LW sees the package and offer the LW will shake their head and walk away. Why because the LW has a spouse and a child to support and the cut in coin is going to be too much considering the ISs and the regions that get that far.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Spinning Tires
Typo, as I am sure you knew.
Recruiters can tell who is good without the person having to say it.
Recruiters can tell who is good without the person having to say it.
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notverytrendy
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:35 am
Re: Spinning Tires
@psyguy @Thames Pirate
I'll explain a little more on my current position... Using "vocational center" was a bad choice of words on my part - I just didn't want to use the jargon my state has for career and technical ed.
I teach high school juniors and seniors. It is a two-year program where students earn both elective credit and Michigan Merit Curriculum credit (a full English credit, a full math credit, a visual & performing arts credit - and optional credits in economics and info tech). While I am not qualified to teach English, I have a consultant I work with on the curriculum development. I am qualified to teach business math. My undergrad and post-grad degrees are not in Econ, but I am qualified to teach it here in my state. Economics is part of the program that I currently teach. (The postgrad work was not a Masters, it was to gain my teaching credentials).
My curriculum actually hits all of the IB Business Studies syllabus and a huge chunk of the IB Econ syllabus (and I have curriculum developed for all of the syllabus which was part of a state grant project I worked on to get our business studies students the econ credit). So, maybe I have one more on the good?
@Psyguy - does this makes my experience & references more valued than at first look? I have a Professional Teaching license in the state and I am evaluated the same as any regular classroom teacher.
I really appreciate the perspectives from both of you. You both add a ton of value to those that are in IT and for those looking to enter this arena.
I'll explain a little more on my current position... Using "vocational center" was a bad choice of words on my part - I just didn't want to use the jargon my state has for career and technical ed.
I teach high school juniors and seniors. It is a two-year program where students earn both elective credit and Michigan Merit Curriculum credit (a full English credit, a full math credit, a visual & performing arts credit - and optional credits in economics and info tech). While I am not qualified to teach English, I have a consultant I work with on the curriculum development. I am qualified to teach business math. My undergrad and post-grad degrees are not in Econ, but I am qualified to teach it here in my state. Economics is part of the program that I currently teach. (The postgrad work was not a Masters, it was to gain my teaching credentials).
My curriculum actually hits all of the IB Business Studies syllabus and a huge chunk of the IB Econ syllabus (and I have curriculum developed for all of the syllabus which was part of a state grant project I worked on to get our business studies students the econ credit). So, maybe I have one more on the good?
@Psyguy - does this makes my experience & references more valued than at first look? I have a Professional Teaching license in the state and I am evaluated the same as any regular classroom teacher.
I really appreciate the perspectives from both of you. You both add a ton of value to those that are in IT and for those looking to enter this arena.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Spinning Tires
I figured it was something like that and stand by my advice and predictions. Make it clear you have 5 years' high school experience for business/econ because that's what you have. The type of program and the ready-made curriculum you have are topics for an interview; the resume should just say high school Econ, business, etc.
What your degrees are in is not really relevant. What matters is that you are certified to teach a subject and have experience teaching it. Of course, if you can get a Masters easily, that is worthwhile, as is getting at least a basic (lower level/middle school) math certification if that is possible.
Definitely include the state grant stuff; it looks good, especially if you word it right.
And I still say do the IB Econ training. It has limited pedagogical value, but it helps you understand how the course/assessments are structured (what % is the IA, etc.) as well as what they are looking for on the exams. Also, you'd have the jargon. Sure, you can probably find much of it on YouTube, for example, but it really is about the paper certificate since you don't have experience. It looks better than not having it, and the cost, both in money and effort, is relatively minimal.
Keep us posted!
What your degrees are in is not really relevant. What matters is that you are certified to teach a subject and have experience teaching it. Of course, if you can get a Masters easily, that is worthwhile, as is getting at least a basic (lower level/middle school) math certification if that is possible.
Definitely include the state grant stuff; it looks good, especially if you word it right.
And I still say do the IB Econ training. It has limited pedagogical value, but it helps you understand how the course/assessments are structured (what % is the IA, etc.) as well as what they are looking for on the exams. Also, you'd have the jargon. Sure, you can probably find much of it on YouTube, for example, but it really is about the paper certificate since you don't have experience. It looks better than not having it, and the cost, both in money and effort, is relatively minimal.
Keep us posted!
Reply
@Thames Pirate
No they cant, recruiters dont have telepathy or "magic".
As long as you know its a typo.
@notverytrendy
You really want to reword that then, "vocational center" sounds a lot like adult edu. Just call it high school or secondary business studies and economics.
Interesting, okay so parsing the metrics, and looking at the PASS:
PASS (PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System):
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
The 5 years of experience counts for IE so you get 2.5pts for experience.
You dont have an advance degree (just some credits that you used to get certified).
You dont have an actual certificate for economics or other social science (such as psychology) or anything in social studies. Nor do you have any cross curriculum experience. Nothing for logistical hire. No previous IT experience, no leadership experience. No Special populations. Nothing noteworthy for ASPs (the PASS works best when used against a specific vacancy, so its possible your coaching could be worth something). Your curriculm design experience with your state grant is worth .25 assuming an IS needs that.
This gives you a score of 2.75, which is in the entry class for IT. Compared to your zero score without the experience you are marketable, just not to the level of second tier
The issues you have are:
1) You have some experience teaching Economics, but there isnt anything in your background (I assume your 1st/UG degree wasnt in Economics?) and you havent taught anything at SLL such as AP/DIP/A*, because in IE economics isnt generally offered in lower secondary. Your really some type of Humanities/Business generalist (I picture you in a self contained classroom teaching a varity of career orientated subjects that cross a number of differing areas) which is bad in that at secondary you want to be a solid specialist, that you can point at and a recruiter doesnt need an explanation. The good is that you can spin your experience in a number of different ways to suit a particular vacancy. Which is what you need to do. Drop the 'Vocational Center" language your a DT in X (business, economics, social studies, etc.), and then you will want to have different resumes for specific vacancies.
2) You may also want to consider adding some additional credentials; social studies, social science, even literature. If you cant add the certificates by examination where you are, you should consider transitioning your credential to a state that does (NJ is a prime candidate for you). Youre making a lot of claims about things you can teach and have taught, but there isnt a lot of support for that other than you saying so. I dont see how you are qualified to teach business maths, you dont have a credential or academic background (unless thats what your 1st/UG degree was in). Add a maths credential and that changes.
3) You still have logistical issues, you are an expensive hire an IS has to travel 3 people to staff one classroom and you arent in a traditionally high needs area. An IS isnt going to have to provide a tuition waiver or place, its still a more expensive hire.
I see you being marketable, though with difficulties. Your challenge is going to be convincing a recruiter that you can teach these specific courses to SLL and that you are worth that cost. Thats going to be a hard sell without SLL experience. I dont see tier 2, though its more a possibility than before. I still see you marketable at the third tier, just not the bottom.
I strongly disagree with @Thames Pirate a credential isnt all that impressive compared to a degree and actual studies in a field. What matters most is experience, if you have strong experience teaching at K12/KS levels and have assessment performance than credentials and degrees mean less. Credentials just make you legal, and while thats important it says a lot less about how an IT will actually perform in a classroom.
I still strongly disagree with @Thames Pirate on the IB training for the reasons discussed above. It would be a pretty big waste of USD$800 (not including travel or if you do it online).
No they cant, recruiters dont have telepathy or "magic".
As long as you know its a typo.
@notverytrendy
You really want to reword that then, "vocational center" sounds a lot like adult edu. Just call it high school or secondary business studies and economics.
Interesting, okay so parsing the metrics, and looking at the PASS:
PASS (PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System):
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)
The 5 years of experience counts for IE so you get 2.5pts for experience.
You dont have an advance degree (just some credits that you used to get certified).
You dont have an actual certificate for economics or other social science (such as psychology) or anything in social studies. Nor do you have any cross curriculum experience. Nothing for logistical hire. No previous IT experience, no leadership experience. No Special populations. Nothing noteworthy for ASPs (the PASS works best when used against a specific vacancy, so its possible your coaching could be worth something). Your curriculm design experience with your state grant is worth .25 assuming an IS needs that.
This gives you a score of 2.75, which is in the entry class for IT. Compared to your zero score without the experience you are marketable, just not to the level of second tier
The issues you have are:
1) You have some experience teaching Economics, but there isnt anything in your background (I assume your 1st/UG degree wasnt in Economics?) and you havent taught anything at SLL such as AP/DIP/A*, because in IE economics isnt generally offered in lower secondary. Your really some type of Humanities/Business generalist (I picture you in a self contained classroom teaching a varity of career orientated subjects that cross a number of differing areas) which is bad in that at secondary you want to be a solid specialist, that you can point at and a recruiter doesnt need an explanation. The good is that you can spin your experience in a number of different ways to suit a particular vacancy. Which is what you need to do. Drop the 'Vocational Center" language your a DT in X (business, economics, social studies, etc.), and then you will want to have different resumes for specific vacancies.
2) You may also want to consider adding some additional credentials; social studies, social science, even literature. If you cant add the certificates by examination where you are, you should consider transitioning your credential to a state that does (NJ is a prime candidate for you). Youre making a lot of claims about things you can teach and have taught, but there isnt a lot of support for that other than you saying so. I dont see how you are qualified to teach business maths, you dont have a credential or academic background (unless thats what your 1st/UG degree was in). Add a maths credential and that changes.
3) You still have logistical issues, you are an expensive hire an IS has to travel 3 people to staff one classroom and you arent in a traditionally high needs area. An IS isnt going to have to provide a tuition waiver or place, its still a more expensive hire.
I see you being marketable, though with difficulties. Your challenge is going to be convincing a recruiter that you can teach these specific courses to SLL and that you are worth that cost. Thats going to be a hard sell without SLL experience. I dont see tier 2, though its more a possibility than before. I still see you marketable at the third tier, just not the bottom.
I strongly disagree with @Thames Pirate a credential isnt all that impressive compared to a degree and actual studies in a field. What matters most is experience, if you have strong experience teaching at K12/KS levels and have assessment performance than credentials and degrees mean less. Credentials just make you legal, and while thats important it says a lot less about how an IT will actually perform in a classroom.
I still strongly disagree with @Thames Pirate on the IB training for the reasons discussed above. It would be a pretty big waste of USD$800 (not including travel or if you do it online).
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notverytrendy
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:35 am
Re: Spinning Tires
@psyguy
This is really good information. I like the "PASS." That listing of criteria is something that will prove valuable. I want to know my weaknesses - or where I don't score - and you served them up proper.
I do not have "vocational" in any of my materials (cover letters, resume, Search stuff, etc.). I'm still not sure why I even said that here. BUT - I did notice that I didn't specifically note that I am a secondary, or high school teacher. You would have to actually read into my resume to see that. Fixed!
Funny how I always thought that my width of subjects taught would prove valuable. I understand (and agree) that the width may not be attractive to a school that is looking for a content specialist (depth). My core competency at this point in my career is IB DP Business Studies. Yes, I am capable of teaching econ, but as you noted, other than the grant work I have no credentials supporting the fact I can teach it. As for business math - I have taught a variety - mostly Accounting, Personal Finance and Financial -, but again, I am not credentialed in this area. I am definitely going to look into NJ teaching credential transfer. Math would definitely not be my fit at the high school level, it would be social science/studies as you suggested. In the end, I have no worries as I can spin this... Whether a recruiter will buy it is another matter.
I am better prepared for the pitch now that you have pointed to some of my weaknesses and shortcomings. I appreciate your input and will definitely put it to use as I do my best to convince a school that I am their guy. Thanks @Psyguy
This is really good information. I like the "PASS." That listing of criteria is something that will prove valuable. I want to know my weaknesses - or where I don't score - and you served them up proper.
I do not have "vocational" in any of my materials (cover letters, resume, Search stuff, etc.). I'm still not sure why I even said that here. BUT - I did notice that I didn't specifically note that I am a secondary, or high school teacher. You would have to actually read into my resume to see that. Fixed!
Funny how I always thought that my width of subjects taught would prove valuable. I understand (and agree) that the width may not be attractive to a school that is looking for a content specialist (depth). My core competency at this point in my career is IB DP Business Studies. Yes, I am capable of teaching econ, but as you noted, other than the grant work I have no credentials supporting the fact I can teach it. As for business math - I have taught a variety - mostly Accounting, Personal Finance and Financial -, but again, I am not credentialed in this area. I am definitely going to look into NJ teaching credential transfer. Math would definitely not be my fit at the high school level, it would be social science/studies as you suggested. In the end, I have no worries as I can spin this... Whether a recruiter will buy it is another matter.
I am better prepared for the pitch now that you have pointed to some of my weaknesses and shortcomings. I appreciate your input and will definitely put it to use as I do my best to convince a school that I am their guy. Thanks @Psyguy
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Spinning Tires
It is important to note that the PASS was invented by PsyGuy and is not an actual recruiting standard. It is useful to see what sorts of things schools want and what they value more or less, but it is important to remember that it is, in fact, a guide at best. I, too, found it useful to see where I could improve my resume, but at the end of the day, each recruiter is a human being looking for an X factor ("fit").
You won't find as many DP Business Studies jobs (sometimes, and sometimes IGCSE or generic or MYP Business Studies) as you will econ jobs. And since you lack credentials for it, get them (DP Econ training would be part of that, particularly if you already have business or social studies credentials on your license that cover it). And while it isn't always a high needs area, it can be (last year's LON job fair had only one DP Econ teacher and apparently a lot of jobs). It isn't the golden ticket that HL math or physics are, but it is far better than lit/English/humanities. So yes, it can be a high needs field. All the more reason to get that econ credential.
I would also agree that a degree trumps a credential just as experience trumps certification. But if you don't have a degree, get a credential, and if you don't have experience, get certification. You have experience, just not IB; sell it that way. You have five years' high school experience teaching economics (and not just on the side as part of a social studies gig, but as a specialist), so say that! It will go a very long way.
My husband is an econ teacher who had neither IB experience nor a degree in economics; he just had 5 years' teaching experience with it and some personal background in it, and he had a tier 2 IB gig right out of the gate. He, like you, has a strong personal game (resume, interviews, etc.). He now has IB experience and training (he did the level 1 online before our first job fair for the reasons I gave earlier) and has schools contacting him all the time asking him if he would like to work there.
I think you know where you can up your game, and hopefully you will have read up on the blog entries on here, the various forum threads, etc. on application strategies, what recruiters want, etc. Stay positive!
You won't find as many DP Business Studies jobs (sometimes, and sometimes IGCSE or generic or MYP Business Studies) as you will econ jobs. And since you lack credentials for it, get them (DP Econ training would be part of that, particularly if you already have business or social studies credentials on your license that cover it). And while it isn't always a high needs area, it can be (last year's LON job fair had only one DP Econ teacher and apparently a lot of jobs). It isn't the golden ticket that HL math or physics are, but it is far better than lit/English/humanities. So yes, it can be a high needs field. All the more reason to get that econ credential.
I would also agree that a degree trumps a credential just as experience trumps certification. But if you don't have a degree, get a credential, and if you don't have experience, get certification. You have experience, just not IB; sell it that way. You have five years' high school experience teaching economics (and not just on the side as part of a social studies gig, but as a specialist), so say that! It will go a very long way.
My husband is an econ teacher who had neither IB experience nor a degree in economics; he just had 5 years' teaching experience with it and some personal background in it, and he had a tier 2 IB gig right out of the gate. He, like you, has a strong personal game (resume, interviews, etc.). He now has IB experience and training (he did the level 1 online before our first job fair for the reasons I gave earlier) and has schools contacting him all the time asking him if he would like to work there.
I think you know where you can up your game, and hopefully you will have read up on the blog entries on here, the various forum threads, etc. on application strategies, what recruiters want, etc. Stay positive!
Re: Spinning Tires
I'm not quite sure why you think you are spinning your wheels? You have experience teaching, you've signed up to go to Boston and you have made some preliminary contacts. Not having heard from them is absolutely normal, especially considering your relative lack of experience and number of dependents. This happens to everyone. If you are still willing to go to Boston, and make those early contacts I think you are doing everything you can.
Reply
@notverytrendy
The PASS works best compared to an actual vacancy its a recruitment tool not an IT assessment tool. A good portion of it is circumstantial. If an IS needs someone to coach MUN and you have that skill set you get points for it, but just being able to do something or having experience in something isnt worth anything, and while there are vacancy posting that indicate those types of needs there are many that dont, and youd never know what skill set a particular recruiter is looking for if they dont come out and state it.
Yes I created the PASS (thats why its called the PSYGUY Applicant Scoring System and not something else), its been cited back to me by others (which I found extremely entertaining).
Most recruiters arent going to decode your resume, most of the screening isnt even done by executive leadership they have other staff sort applications into whatever groups they are given instructions for and they arent likely to try to decode what you can do and have done. At a fair you have somewhere between 10-30 seconds to make an impression, thats why the ichiro, it brings upfront the main selling points, but your resume shouldnt be something regarding a deep read:
* 5 years secondary business studies and economics.
* X Degree.
* Michigan professional certification in business, management, marketing and technology.
* State grant for curriculum development and research.
Thats 4 bullet points, you can fit it on a business card.
You would think the more credentials you bring the better, but its the opposite. A generalist is what you want in primary at upper secondary recruiters want specialists, ITs who do one subject or subject cluster and do it really, really well. Recruiters generally arent looking for ITs who can teach the entire IS curriculum (there are those vacancies though they are rare). I have 40+ credentials and I would spend the first 10-15 minutes or so of an interview explaining how I have so many. Think of it like a cake, the more credentials/qualifications/etc. you have the more slices you represent. Two slices (half a cake) is fine, you cant really eat half a cake. As you get to a certain critical point recruiters want bigger slices and they see your X number of credentials and qualifications (slices) as being insufficient for their needs.
I dont see how you can say your core competency is IB DIP Business Studies, you have no IB experience. Going through the course guide doesnt mean anything (and thats all the IB training does, that and the lexicon). Its just you claiming thats your core strength. Your real core strength is just business studies and economics. Saying you can teach those curriculum subjects at DIP without anything to support it is just narcissistic which is what an IB recruiter would think.
What would be highly beneficial is reading up on the IB and the various course guides so that you can talk the talk in an interview.
ANSWERS:
1) Add supporting credentials.
2) Research the IB and the various subject guides.
3) Write focused versions of your resume targeting specific vacancies.
The PASS works best compared to an actual vacancy its a recruitment tool not an IT assessment tool. A good portion of it is circumstantial. If an IS needs someone to coach MUN and you have that skill set you get points for it, but just being able to do something or having experience in something isnt worth anything, and while there are vacancy posting that indicate those types of needs there are many that dont, and youd never know what skill set a particular recruiter is looking for if they dont come out and state it.
Yes I created the PASS (thats why its called the PSYGUY Applicant Scoring System and not something else), its been cited back to me by others (which I found extremely entertaining).
Most recruiters arent going to decode your resume, most of the screening isnt even done by executive leadership they have other staff sort applications into whatever groups they are given instructions for and they arent likely to try to decode what you can do and have done. At a fair you have somewhere between 10-30 seconds to make an impression, thats why the ichiro, it brings upfront the main selling points, but your resume shouldnt be something regarding a deep read:
* 5 years secondary business studies and economics.
* X Degree.
* Michigan professional certification in business, management, marketing and technology.
* State grant for curriculum development and research.
Thats 4 bullet points, you can fit it on a business card.
You would think the more credentials you bring the better, but its the opposite. A generalist is what you want in primary at upper secondary recruiters want specialists, ITs who do one subject or subject cluster and do it really, really well. Recruiters generally arent looking for ITs who can teach the entire IS curriculum (there are those vacancies though they are rare). I have 40+ credentials and I would spend the first 10-15 minutes or so of an interview explaining how I have so many. Think of it like a cake, the more credentials/qualifications/etc. you have the more slices you represent. Two slices (half a cake) is fine, you cant really eat half a cake. As you get to a certain critical point recruiters want bigger slices and they see your X number of credentials and qualifications (slices) as being insufficient for their needs.
I dont see how you can say your core competency is IB DIP Business Studies, you have no IB experience. Going through the course guide doesnt mean anything (and thats all the IB training does, that and the lexicon). Its just you claiming thats your core strength. Your real core strength is just business studies and economics. Saying you can teach those curriculum subjects at DIP without anything to support it is just narcissistic which is what an IB recruiter would think.
What would be highly beneficial is reading up on the IB and the various course guides so that you can talk the talk in an interview.
ANSWERS:
1) Add supporting credentials.
2) Research the IB and the various subject guides.
3) Write focused versions of your resume targeting specific vacancies.
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notverytrendy
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:35 am
@Overhere
I guess I felt like I was spinning the tires because I have been spending a great deal of time farming Search, researching schools, writing the cover letters and working/re-working my resume while not getting any feedback. So I came to a point where I felt like I was wasting my time in some way. I know that I haven't been wasting time contacting schools, but when you are working in a vacuum it becomes confusing at best, frustrating at worst. That is why I ultimately posted here - looking for other ways that I can prepare myself for this challenge. I appreciate your encouragement and all of the others that have offered help on this thread. I don't care what anyone has told me here or elsewhere, I know what I am capable of and I know what I want. I am confident and whatever happens is for a reason.
@Thames Pirate
Your experience with IT, fairs and having a husband with experience that has some connections to my endeavor has REALLY helped. I am going to look into the IB training. Money is not a concern, but time is (I continue to work my tail off for my current students - I won't sacrifice their learning experiences and opportunities for my professional pursuits). I am going to see if I can get something done between now and the Boston fair. I'll keep learning regardless and will certainly stay positive. Thank you!
@Psyguy
I am going to pursue the supporting credentials (probably starting with NJ), continue to review the IB subject guides and I know that I have to make changes to the resume - and create different versions as well. Simplifying my resume is a fix that makes sense and won't take much time. I would consider my resume requiring a bit of what you called a "deep read." No problem. I'll make the necessary changes.
I have already created the "Ichiro." I'll be ready when it comes time for the fair. A lot of the insight you provided will help in that preparation.
I guess I felt like I was spinning the tires because I have been spending a great deal of time farming Search, researching schools, writing the cover letters and working/re-working my resume while not getting any feedback. So I came to a point where I felt like I was wasting my time in some way. I know that I haven't been wasting time contacting schools, but when you are working in a vacuum it becomes confusing at best, frustrating at worst. That is why I ultimately posted here - looking for other ways that I can prepare myself for this challenge. I appreciate your encouragement and all of the others that have offered help on this thread. I don't care what anyone has told me here or elsewhere, I know what I am capable of and I know what I want. I am confident and whatever happens is for a reason.
@Thames Pirate
Your experience with IT, fairs and having a husband with experience that has some connections to my endeavor has REALLY helped. I am going to look into the IB training. Money is not a concern, but time is (I continue to work my tail off for my current students - I won't sacrifice their learning experiences and opportunities for my professional pursuits). I am going to see if I can get something done between now and the Boston fair. I'll keep learning regardless and will certainly stay positive. Thank you!
@Psyguy
I am going to pursue the supporting credentials (probably starting with NJ), continue to review the IB subject guides and I know that I have to make changes to the resume - and create different versions as well. Simplifying my resume is a fix that makes sense and won't take much time. I would consider my resume requiring a bit of what you called a "deep read." No problem. I'll make the necessary changes.
I have already created the "Ichiro." I'll be ready when it comes time for the fair. A lot of the insight you provided will help in that preparation.
Reply
@notverytrendy
The earliest level 1workshop for Economics is online and starts February 7. There isnt anything between now and BOS. The training takes 4 weeks (online) At a cost of USD$600. You need to spend 4 hours a week engaging with the material and post twice for each deliverable.
You are likely to want a refund of your coin and your 16 hours at the end of it, as it will be one of the most expensive worthless pieces of paper you obtain.
The earliest level 1workshop for Economics is online and starts February 7. There isnt anything between now and BOS. The training takes 4 weeks (online) At a cost of USD$600. You need to spend 4 hours a week engaging with the material and post twice for each deliverable.
You are likely to want a refund of your coin and your 16 hours at the end of it, as it will be one of the most expensive worthless pieces of paper you obtain.