Chances of getting any tier school abroad in maths?

[Möbius StripTease]

So I am strongly giving a thought of looking into teaching again. I was set on being a teacher many years ago but as soon as I shadowed a teacher and was told of the workload, I was immediately put off (80-90 hours a week, seriously?!).

I am a maths graduate and I have started my application for the PGCE in September. I have heard maths is an in-demand subject everywhere. What are the chances that any school will take me on as soon as I gain my PGCE? My preferred location would probably be somewhere in Eastern Europe. Would love Ukraine, Russia or even Kazakhstan.

If not, do chances increase greatly after getting the two years?

[shadowjack]

You will find crap schools before two years. You will find better schools after two years. When you gain experience on how to streamline things, workload goes down.

That said, there are schools who have a sudden opening come up due to various reasons. There might be an opening late for a KS 3 or 4 maths teacher. A level they usually want experience and if they are hiring you without any, it would speak shedloads about the school.

[Möbius StripTease]

shadowjack wrote:
> You will find crap schools before two years. You will find better schools
> after two years. When you gain experience on how to streamline things,
> workload goes down.
>
> That said, there are schools who have a sudden opening come up due to
> various reasons. There might be an opening late for a KS 3 or 4 maths
> teacher. A level they usually want experience and if they are hiring you
> without any, it would speak shedloads about the school.
Thanks!

How easy is it after 2 years? Is it possible to walk into a comfortable tier 2 job? Ukraine or Russia don't seem like they're popular destination, so reckon it would be easy there?

[shadowjack]

it depends. If you are looking only at British schools, maybe, maybe not. The bottom line is you have to start somewhere. 2 years experience at home and stellar references (it helps knowing you are working your fingers to the bone to gain those stellar references to launch your international career) will definitely help you secure tier 2.

If you are going to teach maths in old blighty, you need to get GCSE experience and preferably GCSE AND A levels. They will transfer over nicely to international and make you more marketable. Then, the trick is to land at a school with IB and get DP and MYP training and you are a well-rounded maths teacher.

[PsyGuy]

The general bar to entry in IE is two years post certification experience. Among other reasons, ISs are not the place for an IT to make their bones. They arent properly mentored or resourced to supply a new DT/IT during those first two years they are learning curriculum delivery and management.

There are lower third tier ISs however that simply have to take what they can get given the comp they provide and their region.

The chances of an EE IS hiring you are very low. The issue is the entire region has maybe 20 ISs on the circuit, nd those are mainly the upper tier ISs. You just wouldnt be competitive for those ISs. The rest of the tiers are DSs and you arent going to find one that would be interested if you dont know the host language. The rest is a very small pool of ISs.
Your marketability greatly improves after two years but even then the upper tier ISs arent hurting for any type of IT, they usually have healthy applicant pools. Many ISs will need/want all secondary scheduling and without any experience you arent going to get a SLL appointment. Your going to have to get those lower secondary classes during those two years at KS3/4 and hopefully move up to GCSE and then A*, thats not going to happen right away.

I agree with @SJ once you know what your doing the workload greatly decreases.

[Möbius StripTease]

shadowjack wrote:
> it depends. If you are looking only at British schools, maybe, maybe not.
> The bottom line is you have to start somewhere. 2 years experience at home
> and stellar references (it helps knowing you are working your fingers to
> the bone to gain those stellar references to launch your international
> career) will definitely help you secure tier 2.
>
> If you are going to teach maths in old blighty, you need to get GCSE
> experience and preferably GCSE AND A levels. They will transfer over nicely
> to international and make you more marketable. Then, the trick is to land
> at a school with IB and get DP and MYP training and you are a well-rounded
> maths teacher.

Well, I am aiming to teach at grammar schools. Will this be helpful to my application to international schools?

PsyGuy wrote:
> The general bar to entry in IE is two years post certification experience.
> Among other reasons, ISs are not the place for an IT to make their bones.
> They arent properly mentored or resourced to supply a new DT/IT during
> those first two years they are learning curriculum delivery and management.
>
>
> There are lower third tier ISs however that simply have to take what they
> can get given the comp they provide and their region.
>
> The chances of an EE IS hiring you are very low. The issue is the entire
> region has maybe 20 ISs on the circuit, nd those are mainly the upper tier
> ISs. You just wouldnt be competitive for those ISs. The rest of the tiers
> are DSs and you arent going to find one that would be interested if you
> dont know the host language. The rest is a very small pool of ISs.
> Your marketability greatly improves after two years but even then the upper
> tier ISs arent hurting for any type of IT, they usually have healthy
> applicant pools. Many ISs will need/want all secondary scheduling and
> without any experience you arent going to get a SLL appointment. Your going
> to have to get those lower secondary classes during those two years at
> KS3/4 and hopefully move up to GCSE and then A*, thats not going to happen
> right away.
>
> I agree with @SJ once you know what your doing the workload greatly
> decreases.

Goddammit, it really does seem like an uphill battle. Will I even be able to get into a tier 2 after two years experience somewhere in China or Thailand?

I don't really want to go to the more competitive places in Eastern Europe like Hungary or Prague. My heart is pretty much set in the former soviet union countries, preferably Russia or Ukraine.

Since you said there are not many schools in these countries, I checked out the schools in Russia and Ukraine. In Russia, BISM and EIS say they take NQTs (although how likely they are to offer an NQT a job in the first place remains to be seen). There was another recently opened school in Russia that didn't even say if they required any experience.

In Ukraine, QIS has no information on their requirements (but then again, since it's an American school, chances of being hired for a Brit are low anyway). There was another school that teaches the Ukraine curriculum in English that seemed to have no requirements. Obviously, I would prefer to teach the British curriculum, but if it means an easier access to Ukraine, I'd take it.

[shadowjack]

Check out the 'stans, but Caveat Emptor.

[PsyGuy]

@Möbius StripTease

Teaching in selective grammar DSs will help you transition to ISs better and will add some utility to the marketability of your application but unless your at Eaton or the like they would have to be interested in you first before it would matter.

Probably not, the general rule is that an IT can move up a tier or over to a more desirable location with each contract (assuming a two year contract). You could move from a tier 3 IS in China to a tier 2 IS in China or one of the stans probably. You could potentially move from a tier 3 IS in China to a tier 3 IS in Russia. You would still be a challenge in marketability, as this transition scheme assumes an IT entered IE with the two years perquisite DE experience, which you wont have, youll have 2 years of experience total and thus half of the 4 years youd see in the candidate pool. It will be a smaller applicant pool given your subject is maths, but its not going to be a applicant pool of one. You would really want to distinguish yourself during those two years.
The other problem your going to have is that your going to be an NQT for a very long time, whereas the higher tier ISs will have candidates with full QTS and you wont have undergone induction, since the BSOs that are inspected and can offer induction are going to be higher tier ISs that can attract candidates who have already completed induction.
Maths has higher demand but your not competing against all ITs your competing against all other maths ITs.

I dont really see Hungary or Prague as less competitive, its still EE, maybe when you get deep enough into the details theres an order, I dont see much of a distinction on the circuit. Id agree with @SJ about the stans, but thats not where you want to be.

QSI hires NQTs, its not really very "American", their Mastery program isnt something thats commonly part of US EPP/ITT programs.

Regardless its still a small handful of ISs with an IT thats on the shorter spectrum of experience and a lack of full QTS, though you are in maths, you do have high and restrictive aspirations and you want them quickly. The forum has a Unicorn who does the majority of the follow your dreams, you only fail by giving up, you miss every shot you dont take, I generally dont do those types of things.
It really appears to me that your more interested in being in Russia/Ukraine ASAP than you care about what your doing there. You might want to consider ESOL and taking a flight there and then hitting the pavement applying to ESs when youre on the ground. Of course youll be getting by on what an ETs coin is. While your aspirations are doable (nothing surprises me anymore) the metrics are just against you on the time frame you have expressed. Change it to a PGCE, than 4 years in DE while you complete induction and a Masters as well (moving from a maintained DS to an independent DS), then enter IE and possibly 2 years in IE before your on the better end of the applicant pool to those couple of tier 2 Russia/Ukraine ISs , and your looking at 6-7 years. That story significantly changes the metrics.
Proposing an NQT with all of two years of experience who has a very narrow focus and wants to start in an upper tier IS, my coins against you mate.

[shadowjack]

Comes back to do your two years domestically. Get the GCSE and A level experience. Then look to go overseas.