Sports at International Schools

Rudyard
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Sports at International Schools

Post by Rudyard »

What international schools have strong sports departments / consistently well-coached teams. It doesn't have to be a school with incredible facilities, but it could be. Also what international schools have strong web-platforms for their athletics programs?

Thanks
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

What do you mean by "strong sports departments" and "consistently well coached teams"?

In IE you arent going to find division 5A programs for example. Most students who participate and compete in serious athletics/sport do so through outside EC clubs and compete between clubs. The IS has little role in those programs, if any. ISs dont generally hire for sports coaches on a FTE basis, its usually a PHE IT whose ASP is typically football/soccer and/or volleyball. There arent a lot of ADs (Athletic Directors) in IE, and really its just an HOD of Sports/PHE. The programs that have full time coaches are for sports like equestrian riding or aquatics, where the IS has devoted significant resources to those kinds of facilities. ISs dont generally have vast sports/athletics complexs, if they have a outdoor field its going to be football/soccer. Inside they either have hoops for basketball/netball and posts for Volleyball. An IS with multiple fields, such as a rounders/softball field and a dedicated track is likely what I imagine you are looking for and those ISs are either first/elite tier ISs or they are DSs with an IA.

There are ISs that are specifically sports ISs (IE. SG Sports School, BJSS in KL, etc.). They are a niche subgroup of DSs/ISs. You need to be around the IF level of coaching to be marketable to those ISs/DSs for an appointment. You can find others most notably in the EE (Russia, Ukraine, etc), China and parts of the WE (IE. Germany, etc..)

I dont know of any ISs that have "strong web platforms", usually software is low on the HOD/ADs priority list. The ICT dept. will typically help with making a basic website/page with a template that an IT can update.
Rudyard
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by Rudyard »

I'm not talking about 5A Programs. I'm just talking about international schools that have a solid sports program (as far as international schools go). I am also not looking for a job. Actually followed your advice (and the advice from others on this forum) and found myself a very solid 2nd tier school with some room to grow in terms of its sports program, and most importantly, the desire to do so. I am looking for examples of international schools who have structured their sports programs efficiently, with good coaching, use of facilities, vision, promotion of program etc.
wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

You're basically talking about many Tier 1/Elite schools. I don't know if they will allow the naming of schools BUT basically the biggest/"best" schools in many large cities are going to fit that bill in many respects. ASIJ (Tokyo, Japan), ISBeijing, SASingapore, etc are all going to have excellent facilities and strong, competitive sports programs. Obviously some sports will be prioritized over others. Some of these schools do actually hire specialized coaches and/or hire teachers/subs with specialized training/experience. Many of them also have teams that travel for tournaments to other cities/regions, countries. Some of these teams would be competitive with large high schools in the states, others will just be well-equipped, well coached and competitive within their leagues. Some, like ASIJ, are able to live stream games and matches, etc. Many schools are using platforms like The Cube broadcast/replay games, highlight athletes, etc.
senator
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by senator »

And as an aside, these programs are CUTTHROAT! The coaches that I saw were the typical martinets: yelling at kids, arguing with umpires and refs AND encouraging parents to do the same.

I got so disgusted I dropped out of coaching altogether. Little boys and girls in adult suits so insecure that their entire lives are wrapped up in whether a bunch of high school -or middle or elementary kids- win a silly game. So pathetic.
wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

senator wrote:
> And as an aside, these programs are CUTTHROAT! The coaches that I saw were the typical
> martinets: yelling at kids, arguing with umpires and refs AND encouraging parents
> to do the same.
>
> I got so disgusted I dropped out of coaching altogether. Little boys and girls in
> adult suits so insecure that their entire lives are wrapped up in whether a bunch
> of high school -or middle or elementary kids- win a silly game. So pathetic.
=====================
I would assume that scenario varies widely from location to location. That hasn't been my experience with coaches, especially at the larger/"better" schools where parents are paying a lot of money to attend and possibly more for sports fees, travel costs, uniforms etc.

Some parents on the other hand....
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Rudyard

Your looking at 1st/elite tier ISs as i stated previously. I wouldnt bother with this forum. Id identify the elite/1st tier ISs in your location region, and make a plan to meet for lunch at their IS and talk shop. What you find is inevitably going to be your competition if you play any friendlies. You want to be putting in similar levels of resources if you dont want to get beat bad each and every competition.

One issue I have is that the elite tier ISs dont really do their sports programs efficiently, they have the coin to throw at the programs and its not usually the most efficient.
I disagree with @WT123 in a few aspects of their claims. As i stated previously its rare for an IS to appoint an FTE to coaching if it isnt something the IS has built a facility for. Yes, ISs do hire PT coaches for sports programs but they are not FTE and are local hire appointments. Any coach has to teach something from 8-2 either in PHE or something, in which case the coaching is a glorified ASP, or they are again doing it PT.
Yes those ISs might travel but its usually cross town, there might be an occasional out of country or region away game but its few and far between its nothing like an athletic conference you would find in the US, and parents pay for those trips, they arent budgeted from the sports dept.
I strongly disagree with the conclusion that the level of play you would see is competitive with a large city conference team thats a contender for regionals or nationals.

I dont find those programs very cutthroat, maybe at the level of the UK but certainly not big game regions in the US like FL, CA, TX, etc.
wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

PsyGuy wrote:
> I disagree with @WT123 in a few aspects of their claims. As i stated previously its
> rare for an IS to appoint an FTE to coaching if it isnt something the IS has built
> a facility for. Yes, ISs do hire PT coaches for sports programs but they are not
> FTE and are local hire appointments. Any coach has to teach something from 8-2 either
> in PHE or something, in which case the coaching is a glorified ASP, or they are
> again doing it PT.
> Yes those ISs might travel but its usually cross town, there might be an occasional
> out of country or region away game but its few and far between its nothing like
> an athletic conference you would find in the US, and parents pay for those trips,
> they arent budgeted from the sports dept.
> I strongly disagree with the conclusion that the level of play you would see is competitive
> with a large city conference team thats a contender for regionals or nationals.
====================
Yes, and as we previously discussed, you apparently disagree because you do not coach and/or have close experience with coaching and sports in many international schools (or at least the ones/types that I am familiar with). Teams like ASIJ play in leagues with other int'l schools/DoDEA schools and regularly travel to Division 1 championships for a number of sports (some of them in other countries). Some of their teams would be competitive with some large school districts. They have a full time AD. Some of their coaches over the years have been hired specifically because of their coaching training and experience (and do/did nothing but coach and maybe sub once in a while). Those are not facts because I say they are, they are just, you know, facts (in the old school meaning of the word). That is one school but there are other similar size schools with similar situations.

I know you that will never change your mind/accept reality so I won't bother posting anything further on this thread to you. I would recommend that anyone who is actually interested in reality do their own research and see it for themselves.
Overhere
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by Overhere »

Two big sports oriented associations found in Asia are APAC and IASAS, look them up. Each are multi-country organizations and each sponsor numerous sporting and cultural competitions that involve competition. Schools that belong to APAC include ISBeijing, Shanghai American, Conordia, Canadian Academy, Brent, and Hong Kong IS. I never had any kids play sports in North America but I did have kids participate in varsity sports in APAC and it was competitive. I have also coached APAC sports and that was equally competitive.

I have also worked at schools with only outdoor facilities in climates where the high temperature reached 40 C on occasion and at other schools with bubble gyms and artificial turf courts. At my current school coaches come from all grades K-12 and are stipended, most teams travel twice a season at the varsity and JV level and play in several tournaments every year.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@WT123

No its mostly because youre just wrong, not that youd admit it (about as much as I do). The teams that ASIJ and other elite tier ISs arent really leagues, not in the sense that the UIL (University Interscholastic League) are "leagues" Its just a name a handful of ISs decided to call them self a league, they could just as well call it a club, an association, or a federation and it wouldnt change anything, it s a handful of ISs that play each other regularly using agreed rules. UIL has around 840K student athletes. Its orders of magnitude in scale, scale that includes resources, staffing, infrastructure.

Division 1? Thats an NCAA term for Uni athletics, its not used by the ISF (International School Sports Federation) of which ASIJ isnt even a member and if they were the ISF has about 10K student athletes. It might be used by some state or provincial associations.

We would appear to disagree on their competitiveness, they are competitive with DODEA but thats not saying very much. They would get moped up by most large city teams. Put them against Houston, Los Angeles, Miami/Dade, I could go on. I suppose if your talking about their sumo team okay sure. I suppose if you mean by "some" that there is 1 large district DS somewhere then sure, I suppose there is one somewhere that they could prevail.

Yes they have a full time AD, I stated in my prior posts that is was rare not non-existent. Using the ISC data of 8,924 ISs (really hate this data, but its convenient) how many ISs have FTE ADs on OSH packages? 10, 20, 30, is it even 1% of ISs? No.
Sure they hired some coaches (I didnt state they didnt) they arent FTE on a OSH package. Lets say though that they are, what percentage, and how many? Add them all up over all ISs, again using the ISC data of 449K staff in ISs do those numbers of FTE OSH coaches come even close to 1%? No. Those coach ITs dont coach 8-6 they teach during the day they are PHE ITs, who have a well developed ASP thats coaching. Was their coaching experience a factor as part of their ASP/Skills experience, sure, that happens. I never claimed it didnt.

Those are you know, facts in the traditional sense of the term, since I consider my position sufficiently strong to withstand debate.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Overhere

Big? What do you define as big? APAC is 12 ISs and IASAS is 6 ISs. They are leagues in the sense as its a term the handful of ISs choose when they play against each other. As stated above they could have chosen club, or federation, or conference or association. They are multi country in the definition that there is ONE IS from different countries.

Competitive compared to what? What are you comparing it too? You stated youve never had your kids play in a US NFHS team, so how do you know its competitive? I assume you havent coached in a 5A/6A or equivalent DS?
Ive participated in both they arent comparable.

Traveling twice a year is nothing.
tommypizza
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by tommypizza »

Look up "ISST"...any international school that is in this "conference" has a good sport program. To be a member of ISST, the school must meet certain requirements such as large enrollment. This is a European centered league.

NECIS is another good league formed by all N. European schools.

From my experience, large ISs generally have well developed sport programs...contrary to what has been mentioned here.
wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

@ PG:

Are you sure that you actually work for DoDEA? Division1, Division 2 and Division 3 are DoDEA designations for all competing DoDEA/int'l high schools in DoDEA sports/academic programs. I know you would never actually coach because the money isn't good enough for the investment of your time but you might try poking your head outside of your classroom once in a while or even reading Stars and Stripes.
Overhere
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by Overhere »

Actually I never compared sports at the International level to sports at home, I simply said they were competitive. In fact the latest APAC tennis tournament had at least 2 internationally ranked players involved.

The original post never asks for a comparison to North American sports. If the original poster is interested in coaching sports and or schools with good facilities then I am simply suggesting a school that belongs to APAC or IASAS, among others, would be a good place to start looking.

As for the travel, sure there are club teams and private schools that have individual teams that travel alot. However, I would bet our kids travel a lot more than most high school athletes do in the states. Actually I have quite a bit of experience in sports both at home and overseas and I have been happy with both.
vandsmith
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Re: Sports at International Schools

Post by vandsmith »

a few of the sports teams i've seen at tournaments with the kids would be somewhat competitive with schools back home, but for the most part would get beaten badly. there's a lot of crying and whining by the players, and not enough effort and hard work. some not all. i've always had a few kids who loved sports, worked hard, sacrificed the body, fulfilled academic responsibilities, etc...

in my experience, the big schools 1500+ and the embassy schools with big populations, and otherwise large schools all put good money into their facilities and their sports programmes. they get kids who are motivated and usually work hard. they generally have an AD who is active, but the coaches are generally not single sport coaches - usually PE teachers and athletically-minded teachers (i played several sports from youth to university well, so i coach because i know its importance).

haven't seen too much tech in athletic programmes other than the a/v club streaming and 'calling' games online. some big schools will have students who maintain stats and pics on the athletic sub site.

as for naming schools, the various leagues mentioned are all varying degrees of good and competitive. you may want to ask on the paid side for more specific information.

good luck!

v.
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