DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Jangja4ever
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:05 pm

DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by Jangja4ever »

Hello,

I'm extremely grateful to have stumbled on this page. It has always been my dream, since leaving the military, to teach at a DoDDS school. I was placed on the referral list for a few stateside positions, got one offer, which I turned down in 2014. This year, I was made an offer to work in DDESS PR and I was also made an offer to work for an international school in South Korea. I’m having an extremely hard time deciding which position to take because I’m wondering if I should: a) take the DDESS position to get my foot in the door, the principal seems to really like me and says after a year I can transfer to an overseas post since preference is given to internal applicants or b) take the International Korean school and apply again in the hopes of getting hired as a local hire?

I should mention the specs for both:

Korea
Free apartment
Free meals
$45,000 U.S. (I have to pay Korean taxes and 8% health insurance and national pension)
$1000 Xmas bonus
$2000-5000 yearly (afterschool activity bonus)
$2000 yearly round trip tickets
13th month bonus pay

The biggest con for this is the political climate in the region right now but the benefits seem decent.


DDESS PR
$64,000 (I pay federal and NYS taxes)
$18,000 pounds household goods shipped
$Cola 3.6%
RAT
Government storage
Federal retirement system

The biggest con is that I do not get housing provided for me and I would need to purchase a vehicle to get by, I currently don’t drive. I’m tempted to take DDESS just to get IN the system if it means I get to transfer to an overseas location. For those of you who are in the system can you please chime in?

Jangja4ever
santacruzin1
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:30 am

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by santacruzin1 »

Can only speak to Korea, since I lived there for 5 years.

As far as your one Con, the political climate, realize that most South Koreans regard North Korea as one might a small, noisy chihuahua in a locked car with the windows up; annoying, might even startle you, but ultimately harmless. While that might sound too casual, realize that they are the ones who live next to this annoying neighbor and if they aren't too bothered by the North, you shouldn't be either. The North works on a pattern of provocation, escalation, negotiation, and repeat. The likelihood of an attack on the South is minuscule, despite what American media or Trump might try to tell you.

A few things about your pay package:

Remember (if you're a USA citizen), you can claim all your pension back when you depart Korea at the end of your contract. Since you'll pay only 4.5%/month, and your employer matches that at 4.5%, you'll be getting free money. It works out to roughly 1 month's pay for each year you work - so make sure to factor that into your decision.

You will live quite comfortably, not extravagantly, in Seoul on that salary. If you're outside Seoul, your salary will go even further.

Provided you make sure to use your debit card for all spending (quirk of the Korean tax system), you will be able to claim back a good amount of your income tax each year (I always got money back during tax time).
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

@jangja4ever

First, your principal at the DDESS DS was not entirely forthcoming with you. DDESS DTs do not get to participate in the transfer program. Though an internal recommendation and file has some benefits and would be looked upon with some favor and thus could give you an advantage, you would still be competing with external candidates, and there is no requirement that a principal exhaust internal candidates first, you are still CONUS.
Second, being hired as a local hire isnt really possible. You would require a sponsorship package so you arent really a LH, youre an OCONUS, which means you wouldnt get housing (LQA) and many other benefits (though you would get PA, etc.) its not really an ideal situation, and youd be stuck with that package unless you got a transfer (more than 50 miles away) during the transfer program. Its possible but not very probable it would all work out.

I would concur with @santacruzin1, it looks like a wash for me on the coin. The SK IS is $48K and the DESS is $64K which is a $14K difference (RAT and the relocation allowance I valued as equivalent). Does the IS provide any other allowances such as PD or a shipping/shopping allowance? Figure housing/utilities cost you USD$10K/year for something nice, and you buy a used car for USD$4K-5K and the basic costs are the equivalent.

What are your goals? If your looking to make it into leadership, it would be much more difficult in DDESS/DoDDS than in IE.
What are your social goals, as a white westerner in SK you will have a lot more fun and more opportunities than in PR.
What do you teach? If its something esoteric than DDESS might give you a faster way in to DoDDs.

Based on what you have provided so far, the SK IS is the stronger option.

I would strongly suggest you consult the following forum on Teachers.net
http://teachers.net/mentors/DOD/

You will get a lot more specific details and information, specifically from members "haha" and "Mary-Lorraine".
Jangja4ever
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by Jangja4ever »

Santacruzin1 and PsyGuy thank you for responding. Santacruzin1, I have heard reports about the Chihuahua theory. And I agree we tend to go bigger with everything here-even the news. @PsyGuy, thanks for sharing the teacher.net website, I’m going share my indecision with them as well. But to answer the questions posed:

What are your goals? If you're looking to make it into leadership, it would be much more difficult in DDESS/DoDDS than in IE.

Here are the reasons I’m leaving an extremely well-paying teaching job in the U.S.
I got tired of the bureaucracy, there will tremendous budget cuts to education, the inability to save money because everything is expensive in New York.
I would love to eventually work for DoDDS, that is the final goal, as I don’t want to go back into the DOE system and DoDEA would provide me a better opportunity for retirement.
I’m licensed to teach ESL and Elementary classroom so nothing DoDDS will be fighting for.

I’m glad as I found you guys because I had originally chosen Korea, but the people I spoke with, including the principal, made seem that one year in DDESS PR is all I need and I’d have “foot in the door”. I was worried I would not be granted another opportunity,or at least not DoDDS since all my offer came from the states. Am I to understanding that going PR, does significantly up chances of getting into DoDDS?
Jangja4ever
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by Jangja4ever »

Sorry forgot to answer the other questions. The SK school does not provide shipping for household goods. Santacruiz1, are you teaching in Seoul?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Hi. I've taught internationally in several countries and I'm now with DoDDS in Japan.

As posted previously, the general consensus is that DDESS offers some type of advantage to getting into DoDDS but there is disagreement on how significant it is. Being an internal candidate, having some possible personal connections etc COULD be helpful but there is no actual mechanism to transfer from one to the other so you would essentially be applying and hoping to get a referral, interview, offer etc just like 10's of thousands of other applicants.

I'm not a huge fan of PR from what I have heard of the experience and I am partial to Asia so Korea would be my vote (from having taught in China and Japan). If you main goal is DoDEA then PR should probably get more consideration.
Jangja4ever
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by Jangja4ever »

What have you heard about PR? I'm completely clueless and going off what the principal tells me. There is very little information about PR, trust me I have looked. You can email me if it's easier, my email is my username at gmail. The final goal is DoDDS, but it seems that it's shot in the dark even I'm in DDESS.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

2nd and 3rd hand things about the area (crime, more petty than life-threatening, bad economy which makes you stick out like a walking ATM etc.) but nothing from anyone who has actually worked there.

I know people who came to DoDDS from DDESS and I know people (like us) who came to DoDDS from int'l schools. It really is a toss up in many respects. SK would give you more of an int'l experience right away. We loved our lives before getting into DoDDS having taught in 3 different countries. The upside is that if you didn't get into DoDDS right away, it is relatively easy to find another int'l school job from SK (possibly in a better school/location) and continue the adventure while still waiting for the call from DoDDS.
santacruzin1
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:30 am

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by santacruzin1 »

Not teaching in Seoul anymore, but yes I did live there for 5 years.

Crime would be another point for Korea; while there is crime, it is quite rare (petty crime and violent crime) due to the huge social stigma on criminals. 99% of the time I felt perfectly safe, even walking alone late at night; however, in the ./clubbing areas of Seoul beware of occasional fights & such.

The school not paying for shipping household items is a minus, though anything and everything you could need is available in Seoul. There's Costco, IKEA, electronics stores similar to Best Buy, and online shopping in Korea is a breeze with cheap & quick delivery. You may even inherit some household goods like pots, pans, linens, etc. if you take over a departing teacher's apartment. The apartment itself will likely be somewhat furnished with bed, table/chairs, couch.

Sent you an email as well in case you have something more specific you'd like to ask.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Jangja4ever

Agree with @WT123, there may be some positive contributing influences going into DDESS (an intenal references, your documents already being processed and affirmed), but there isnt a mechanism to go from DDESS to DODDS, you are essentially competing in the same pool as every other external candidates, so there really isnt a "foot in the door" benefit. DDESS just isnt the backdoor entry way into DoDDS the principal is selling to you.

PR has a some negatives, the base isnt located anywhere interesting, and thee are increased safety concerns due to a lot of poverty as a result of economic collapse on the island. @WT123s comment of being a walking ATM machine isnt inaccurate.

It still sounds like a wash to me either way, SK is going to be a better quality of life, but if your the . type there might be some advantage to you going DDESS, though your going to have some suffering as part of that.
Jangja4ever
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by Jangja4ever »

Thank you guys for posting. Yes, the principal is selling hard, which has me worried. I mentioned safety issue, as a female living alone and he said base housing is possible. Spoke with a couple of people who said they are phasing out the base housing and I have not been able to get a hold the base housing office. I did go the website PsyGuy recommended and they confirmed what was already said here. Under pressure, I may have committed career suicide, PsyGuy or WT123 may I PM you both or one of you since you've been/are in the DoDDS system? Or email me username at gmail.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Jangja4ever

Well base housing is possible, but possible doesnt mean its available or probable. Basically, the principal will ask, and they might very likely get a no, and then the principal will shrug and say it didnt happen. Of course this is once your processed, and on the ground, and the principal more or less owns you. That happens in hardship regions. You need to understand when it comes to those types of issues, the principal doesnt have any real authority to promise you anything. They cant negotiate salary, or any other benefit.

PMs on this board are disabled. if you want to supply an email address. Click on control panel near the top of the page, then click on the profile tab, scroll to the bottom and you will find a text box called "interests" you can include your email in that box, and then later remove it. Then if a member wants to email you you can just direct them to your profile, and they can copy and paste the email.

I dont communicate with our membership off forum, @WT123 may, but you can always post to either this forum or the teachers.net forum.

Understand the longer you wait to change your mind with DODEA the worse its going to be. Its not career suicide, DDESS is still a job, and its still a line item on your resume, and you do get RAT, but its not a foot in the door or anything into DoDDS, your not going to do a year or two and then get a transfer to Italy or Spain or anywhere else in the EU. Youre more likely to work your way through the tiers of IE and be in Europe in about 4 years, which would be a lot faster than DoDDS. Candidates can wait years to get into DoDDS if at all, and then going through the transfer program it could take half a decade or longer to get into the EU. Even then our bases in the Med arent any where fun.
AuntFlo
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 10:27 am

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by AuntFlo »

PsyGuy or anyone "in the know" about DODDS-

I've heard that DODDS have stopped hiring School Psychologists- Is this correct? I have a School Psych certified friend in the US who would like to apply but I don't want to encourage her if there are no jobs for her any longer. Thanks!
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@AuntFlo

There were S.Psy vacancies this recruiting cycle in EAS. It wouldnt matter though, several years ago the a new business workflow for S.Psys was adopted, CONUS hires would need to be dual credentialed as both S.Psys and School Counselors. Even then applying means little there are candidates with exactly those credentials and others that have been waiting years.
AuntFlo
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 10:27 am

Re: DDESS to DODDS vs. International School, is it worth it?

Post by AuntFlo »

Thanks, Psyguy. I'll tell my friend not to bother since 1.) is "only" certified as a School Psych and 2.) doesn't sound like they are looking to hire any new School Psychs from outside the system.
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