Hi,
I've asked a similar question before but some circumstances have changed so I would like to ask again. I do not have licensure and am thinking about getting one.
My current situation is:
- Masters in secondary science ed from US college
- practicum experience
- no EPP (to be exact, I failed the final writeup)
- 1.5 yrs physics/math teacher in a Chinese/American partnership school
- unemployed
I am guessing my best strategy is to get the Utah/Massachusetts initial licenses, get more experience, and transfer it to the standard Hawai license. Does this seem like a good plan?
I have looked up Teach Now and Teacher Ready, but these seem too long and expensive. Especially since I already spent a lot of money on my education.
My next problem is more personal and about being an international teacher in general. I'm still young so it may sound stupid.
I am in an uncomfortable position in which all of my family and lasting friends are in Korea but I am a US citizen undergone a US education. In other words, I want to live in Korea but that's not easy.
I like teaching and my previous students liked me but I am not very robust and have a very difficult time working long hours (i.e. longer than 9 hours a day). I realize that I may have to work longer the first year after I get employed again, but I fear I may have to work like that throughout my career from what I read. Also, I volunteer a small amount of time if students ask but detest pressured volunteering otherwise.
Personally, I am not very confident I can live as an IT in Korea.
So to sum it up:
1. Is my plan for licensure okay?
2. Do you think I can be successful as an IT in Korea? I realize this question is very subjective but I want to hear honest opinions from current international teachers; college only gave optimistic feedback.
3. If I can't get employed this year, I am thinking of applying for Korean citizenship. However, this would likely entail 2 years of military service and revoking my US citizenship. How would this affect my licensure plan and chances of getting a job in international schools?
I really appreciate the information and contribution in this forum.
Thanks in advance for any opinions you give.
questions on licensure and advice on IT
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
If I'm being brutally honest, if you struggle to work for 9 hours a day then I would question whether teaching is the right job for you. Many international schools start at 8 and finish at 4 - add on to that marking and preparation and it will regularly take you over the 9 hour mark, especially in the first couple of years.
Response
@valefore
The UT or MA routes are going to be far cheaper and less resource intensive than an EPP/ITT program like Teach Now or Teach Ready. MA is probably better for you since the MA credential is effectively a lifetime credential, at least for now (its supposed to change in 2020), it gives you more time to meet the three year requirement for HI without having to do PD. It requires one more exam than UT does, but you can take the MTEl OS as well as the PRAXIS, the PRAXIS is more nationally accepted whereas the MTEL is specific to MA.
If your at the right IS where you dont have to do very much, then you can get by with a 9 hour workday. Even with contact hours of 8-4 (8 hours) not all those hours are going to be instructional. Its just really close to your limit, there are going to be days where youre going to have to put in more than 9 hours such as exam times, end of term marking. A nine hour day is very doable but you cant depend on that kind of time frame. At some point your probably going to either have to put in the extra hours or figure out a way to do less work.
Most ITs have ASPs in addition to their instructional time, volunteering outside of that is hit and miss. In some very large ISs you never have to volunteer for anything else, these are mostly larger ISs or theyre municipal ISs. Then you have small ISs were the teachings staff is everything and you end up having to do everything.
One of the metrics with SK is that it has almost no middle tier, a lot of third tier ISs and a handful of first tier ISs and not much in between, which is fine for you personally but it means that the third tier has less maturation since there are fewer opportunities for ITs to move up and out.
Well you cant get or maintain either UT or MA credentials without being a US Citizen. You wouldnt be able to renew them, which with the MA credential would be less an issue. They arent running monthly immigration status checks.
You would be renouncing your US citizenship not having it revoked.
Aside from that you have three problems. 1) Most ISs want westerners and that means US/UK/AUS/CAN, and while you could probably talk your way through it IF you were given the chance for a lot of ISs screening process your going to lose opportunities. 2) As a SK citizen your going to have more difficulty getting work visas, etc. with a SK passport, assuming your IS career moves you outside of SK. 3) Honestly, for a lot of American leadership at ASs, an IT candidate that renounced US citizenship for SK citizenship would be offended, and would be a significant challenge to overcome.
Really it sounds like youd be happier in the ESOL field, where you get paid an hourly wage for the exact hours you work, and when work is done you take nothing home. There really isnt any marking, and the curriculum is done for you.
The UT or MA routes are going to be far cheaper and less resource intensive than an EPP/ITT program like Teach Now or Teach Ready. MA is probably better for you since the MA credential is effectively a lifetime credential, at least for now (its supposed to change in 2020), it gives you more time to meet the three year requirement for HI without having to do PD. It requires one more exam than UT does, but you can take the MTEl OS as well as the PRAXIS, the PRAXIS is more nationally accepted whereas the MTEL is specific to MA.
If your at the right IS where you dont have to do very much, then you can get by with a 9 hour workday. Even with contact hours of 8-4 (8 hours) not all those hours are going to be instructional. Its just really close to your limit, there are going to be days where youre going to have to put in more than 9 hours such as exam times, end of term marking. A nine hour day is very doable but you cant depend on that kind of time frame. At some point your probably going to either have to put in the extra hours or figure out a way to do less work.
Most ITs have ASPs in addition to their instructional time, volunteering outside of that is hit and miss. In some very large ISs you never have to volunteer for anything else, these are mostly larger ISs or theyre municipal ISs. Then you have small ISs were the teachings staff is everything and you end up having to do everything.
One of the metrics with SK is that it has almost no middle tier, a lot of third tier ISs and a handful of first tier ISs and not much in between, which is fine for you personally but it means that the third tier has less maturation since there are fewer opportunities for ITs to move up and out.
Well you cant get or maintain either UT or MA credentials without being a US Citizen. You wouldnt be able to renew them, which with the MA credential would be less an issue. They arent running monthly immigration status checks.
You would be renouncing your US citizenship not having it revoked.
Aside from that you have three problems. 1) Most ISs want westerners and that means US/UK/AUS/CAN, and while you could probably talk your way through it IF you were given the chance for a lot of ISs screening process your going to lose opportunities. 2) As a SK citizen your going to have more difficulty getting work visas, etc. with a SK passport, assuming your IS career moves you outside of SK. 3) Honestly, for a lot of American leadership at ASs, an IT candidate that renounced US citizenship for SK citizenship would be offended, and would be a significant challenge to overcome.
Really it sounds like youd be happier in the ESOL field, where you get paid an hourly wage for the exact hours you work, and when work is done you take nothing home. There really isnt any marking, and the curriculum is done for you.
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
@expatscot
I can believe that. I knew public schools in the US required a lot of work and I guess it's similar in international schools.
@psyguy
I see. I would really have to think carefully about renouncing my US citizenship (thanks for pointing out misuse).
I've thought about ESOL and private academies. I was put off by evening shifts but I guess no job is perfect and everything has pros and cons. I will consider that route as well as.
Thanks both for honest opinions and information.
I can believe that. I knew public schools in the US required a lot of work and I guess it's similar in international schools.
@psyguy
I see. I would really have to think carefully about renouncing my US citizenship (thanks for pointing out misuse).
I've thought about ESOL and private academies. I was put off by evening shifts but I guess no job is perfect and everything has pros and cons. I will consider that route as well as.
Thanks both for honest opinions and information.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
Public schools are, IME, a LOT more work.
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
@Thames Pirate
I agree with you (with limited experience), although it does depend a lot on school, district and state. For example, teachers at schools I had practicum in did not work especially longer than what I read here. Conversely, I heard stories of teachers having no time to go to the bathroom.
What I also heard and read was that US private schools in general involved less work and less pay than public schools. I just needed to know how much that work actually is for International schools.
I agree with you (with limited experience), although it does depend a lot on school, district and state. For example, teachers at schools I had practicum in did not work especially longer than what I read here. Conversely, I heard stories of teachers having no time to go to the bathroom.
What I also heard and read was that US private schools in general involved less work and less pay than public schools. I just needed to know how much that work actually is for International schools.
Reply
@valefore
I would agree with you, as it really depends on which public/maintained DS you are referring too. There are public/maintained DSs that are nightmares where new DTs run screaming after a short period of time. There are also public maintained DSs where work tasking is better than what you would find in an IS. DTs leave on time are not overly burdened with documentation and other production tasking. Some policy as simple as unlimited attempts at assessments can frustrate a DT to the point everyone gets the minimum grade if they scribble their name on a blank piece of paper.
In general for any given area, private/independent DSs in the US offer less compensation but better working conditions, a lot of this stems from the factor that private/independent DSs get to choose who they admit.
I would agree with you, as it really depends on which public/maintained DS you are referring too. There are public/maintained DSs that are nightmares where new DTs run screaming after a short period of time. There are also public maintained DSs where work tasking is better than what you would find in an IS. DTs leave on time are not overly burdened with documentation and other production tasking. Some policy as simple as unlimited attempts at assessments can frustrate a DT to the point everyone gets the minimum grade if they scribble their name on a blank piece of paper.
In general for any given area, private/independent DSs in the US offer less compensation but better working conditions, a lot of this stems from the factor that private/independent DSs get to choose who they admit.
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
Hope it's ok me jumping on this thread instead of starting a new one.
I have a MS in Tesol and two years teaching international in British based schools. I've been teaching in upper primary Yrs. 4-6. Currently am teaching Yr. 6 as a class teacher. I am planning on taking the PRAXIS and going the DC route. Is this still the best option or should I go for one of the other ones? Also is it possible for me to just get the middle school teaching license without getting the ESL one first or do I need ESL since my degree is in it and then do an add on? Can I get the add on at the same time as my initial license? I looked at the DC website and it wasn't very clear to me. Thanks for any help.
I have a MS in Tesol and two years teaching international in British based schools. I've been teaching in upper primary Yrs. 4-6. Currently am teaching Yr. 6 as a class teacher. I am planning on taking the PRAXIS and going the DC route. Is this still the best option or should I go for one of the other ones? Also is it possible for me to just get the middle school teaching license without getting the ESL one first or do I need ESL since my degree is in it and then do an add on? Can I get the add on at the same time as my initial license? I looked at the DC website and it wasn't very clear to me. Thanks for any help.
Reply
@BocaNY
Are you a US Citizen?
The best route based on what, you supplied some basics, but what is your goal? Do you really want a US credential because you want to be more marketable to ASs or are you just looking for a quick way to get QTS? Are you actually looking for training in meds/peds, or do you just want the credential?
You do not need to obtain the ESOL credential because your degree was in it. However, at some point if you complete the Teach Now program you will want to park your credential in either NJ (New Jersey) or preferably the CA (California) CLEAR credential. To apply as an OOS candidate in CA you will need to meet the CLAD (ESOL) requirement and the only way to do so is with an OOS ESOL credential.
You can pursue the MS 4-8 Generalist credential if you want and Teach Now lets you. I however would not, you would find a lot more marketability with the Elementary 1-6 credential as there are usually only a handful of MS/lower secondary vacancies available yearly. Most leadership consider MS generalist to essentially be extended primary/elementary ITs. You should also understand that for many ISs especially in Asia, year 8 is Algebra in maths. If the MS generalist is the way you want to go, you would want to add the Elementary 1-6 to your credential as well.
You can submit applications for endorsement at the same time as your initial credential application if you have completed all requirements for the endorsement.
Are you a US Citizen?
The best route based on what, you supplied some basics, but what is your goal? Do you really want a US credential because you want to be more marketable to ASs or are you just looking for a quick way to get QTS? Are you actually looking for training in meds/peds, or do you just want the credential?
You do not need to obtain the ESOL credential because your degree was in it. However, at some point if you complete the Teach Now program you will want to park your credential in either NJ (New Jersey) or preferably the CA (California) CLEAR credential. To apply as an OOS candidate in CA you will need to meet the CLAD (ESOL) requirement and the only way to do so is with an OOS ESOL credential.
You can pursue the MS 4-8 Generalist credential if you want and Teach Now lets you. I however would not, you would find a lot more marketability with the Elementary 1-6 credential as there are usually only a handful of MS/lower secondary vacancies available yearly. Most leadership consider MS generalist to essentially be extended primary/elementary ITs. You should also understand that for many ISs especially in Asia, year 8 is Algebra in maths. If the MS generalist is the way you want to go, you would want to add the Elementary 1-6 to your credential as well.
You can submit applications for endorsement at the same time as your initial credential application if you have completed all requirements for the endorsement.
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
@PsyGuy
Yes I am American. My end goal is teaching science but I know my limit is up to biology. I like teaching EAL and Science to middle school and up. The last two years I have been stuck in upper primary. I do want to be able to teach at the better schools.
Am not sure I want to spend more money doing the teach now program after spending so much on my masters. I know I can apply for the NY license, my home state, but I can't imagine doing three years teaching there or in the US.
I want to be a subject teacher either in English or Science but definitely not maths.
Just over a year and half ago I was given advice on here not to do the teach now program since I already had a master's (from you I believe). You seem to know the ins and outs so I value your opinion. I hope the info I gave can shed more light. Thanks for the help.
Also in less than two weeks time am sitting the exams.
Yes I am American. My end goal is teaching science but I know my limit is up to biology. I like teaching EAL and Science to middle school and up. The last two years I have been stuck in upper primary. I do want to be able to teach at the better schools.
Am not sure I want to spend more money doing the teach now program after spending so much on my masters. I know I can apply for the NY license, my home state, but I can't imagine doing three years teaching there or in the US.
I want to be a subject teacher either in English or Science but definitely not maths.
Just over a year and half ago I was given advice on here not to do the teach now program since I already had a master's (from you I believe). You seem to know the ins and outs so I value your opinion. I hope the info I gave can shed more light. Thanks for the help.
Also in less than two weeks time am sitting the exams.
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
@PsyGuy
More questions on licensure:
Utah's initial license is the ARL route, which lasts 3 years, but it says I need to teach in Utah. It also seems ARL is a program not a license. Is it really possible to use this as a license when applying to the Hawaii license?
http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/Altern ... nsure.aspx
Massachusett's preliminary license seems to be the one I can get, but is 5 years max with no renewal.
http://www.mass.gov/edu/government/depa ... ents-.html
So the plan is to get the Massachusett's preliminary license, work 3 years out of the last 5 years, and apply for the standard Hawaii license through D? But the description says, "Stage 3 Teacher License means a license issued to an individual who holds a minimum of a Bachelor’s degree, has completed a State Approved Teacher Education Program", so ultimately, chances are I may have to take an EPP anyway?
http://www.htsb.org/licensing-permits/l ... -overview/
Like so many things in the US, this is very confusing.
More questions on licensure:
Utah's initial license is the ARL route, which lasts 3 years, but it says I need to teach in Utah. It also seems ARL is a program not a license. Is it really possible to use this as a license when applying to the Hawaii license?
http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/Altern ... nsure.aspx
Massachusett's preliminary license seems to be the one I can get, but is 5 years max with no renewal.
http://www.mass.gov/edu/government/depa ... ents-.html
So the plan is to get the Massachusett's preliminary license, work 3 years out of the last 5 years, and apply for the standard Hawaii license through D? But the description says, "Stage 3 Teacher License means a license issued to an individual who holds a minimum of a Bachelor’s degree, has completed a State Approved Teacher Education Program", so ultimately, chances are I may have to take an EPP anyway?
http://www.htsb.org/licensing-permits/l ... -overview/
Like so many things in the US, this is very confusing.
Reply
@BocaNY
I understand and can respect your recognition of your limitations, be mindful of that when applying, and understand that there is far greater demand for physics followed by chemistry and then a big jump down to biology. Sticking with lower secondary is strategic to being successful, but it is going to limit you.
I would forget the Teach Now pathway, and explore either the UT (Utah) APT level one license. Which requires no ITT/EPP program, only a bachelors degree (any subject) and passing the appropriate licensing exam (PRAXIS) for the content area of the certification sought, PRAXIS exam sites are located globally, (you must also complete a CRB). The credential is valid for three years and be be renewed, however you may have one and only one area. You can not obtain that certification in ESOL, you could however obtain the 6-12 secondary general science or other science credential.
The other option if the MA (Massachusetts) Preliminary credential. This credential requires one more test than the UT credential, but is valid for 5 years of actual employment in MA, as long as you dont work in MA that time will never start, and could potentially be an effective lifetime credential (though MA is expected to update some of their licensing schemes in 2020). You could take the General Science 5-8 or ESOL 5-12 or both.
@valefore
You want to look at the APT route not the ARL route:
http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/APT.aspx
The MA preliminary credential is 5 years of employment, ith no renewal, as long as you dont teach in MA you will never start the clock or use any of that time, effectively becoming a lifetime credential (though MA is expected to make some changes in 2020 to its credentialing scheme).
There are a number of ways to earn a HI standard license, your pathway would be route G, in which no ITT/EPP program is required.
http://www.htsb.org/licensing-permits/l ... -overview/
I understand and can respect your recognition of your limitations, be mindful of that when applying, and understand that there is far greater demand for physics followed by chemistry and then a big jump down to biology. Sticking with lower secondary is strategic to being successful, but it is going to limit you.
I would forget the Teach Now pathway, and explore either the UT (Utah) APT level one license. Which requires no ITT/EPP program, only a bachelors degree (any subject) and passing the appropriate licensing exam (PRAXIS) for the content area of the certification sought, PRAXIS exam sites are located globally, (you must also complete a CRB). The credential is valid for three years and be be renewed, however you may have one and only one area. You can not obtain that certification in ESOL, you could however obtain the 6-12 secondary general science or other science credential.
The other option if the MA (Massachusetts) Preliminary credential. This credential requires one more test than the UT credential, but is valid for 5 years of actual employment in MA, as long as you dont work in MA that time will never start, and could potentially be an effective lifetime credential (though MA is expected to update some of their licensing schemes in 2020). You could take the General Science 5-8 or ESOL 5-12 or both.
@valefore
You want to look at the APT route not the ARL route:
http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/APT.aspx
The MA preliminary credential is 5 years of employment, ith no renewal, as long as you dont teach in MA you will never start the clock or use any of that time, effectively becoming a lifetime credential (though MA is expected to make some changes in 2020 to its credentialing scheme).
There are a number of ways to earn a HI standard license, your pathway would be route G, in which no ITT/EPP program is required.
http://www.htsb.org/licensing-permits/l ... -overview/
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
@PsyGuy
Thanks for the clarifications on Utah and MA.
However, route G for the HI standard license says "1. National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES) evaluation of your foreign transcript which shows you completed a teacher preparation program". So I still need to complete a EPP out of the US, right?
Thanks for the clarifications on Utah and MA.
However, route G for the HI standard license says "1. National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES) evaluation of your foreign transcript which shows you completed a teacher preparation program". So I still need to complete a EPP out of the US, right?
Re: questions on licensure and advice on IT
@PsyGuy
Why is the DC route no longer a good option?
My masters program is considered a ITT/EPP.
My original plan was get licensed in ESOL and then get an add on for middle school science plus primary general plus EAL. So in the end I would have 4. I love teaching EAL, Science, and ESOL but I rather be a subject teacher in either EAL or Science than a class teacher.
Why is the DC route no longer a good option?
My masters program is considered a ITT/EPP.
My original plan was get licensed in ESOL and then get an add on for middle school science plus primary general plus EAL. So in the end I would have 4. I love teaching EAL, Science, and ESOL but I rather be a subject teacher in either EAL or Science than a class teacher.
Reply
@valefore
Sorry, typo,should have written option D.
@BocaNY
The old option doesnt exist anymore. DC updated their credentialing scheme last year and differentiated between initial (entry grade) and standard (professional grade) teaching credentials. The initial credential is two year non-renewable credential and the standard is what the old regular credential was. DC further added a two year experience requirement to qualify for the standard credential. In the past DC would accept just about any out of state credential and issue a DC regular credential.
Is it? If it was youd have obtained a credential at the conclusion of the program.
You could do that, but it would be difficult. You would likely need to obtain both UT (APT 1) AND MA (Preliminary) credentials. MA requires a seminar component for primary/elementary, and UT doesnt issue ESOL through the APT route, and you are limited to a single credential. You could obtain the UT APT credential in Primary, and then the MA Preliminary credential in ESOL, Literature and General Science 5-8.
Sorry, typo,should have written option D.
@BocaNY
The old option doesnt exist anymore. DC updated their credentialing scheme last year and differentiated between initial (entry grade) and standard (professional grade) teaching credentials. The initial credential is two year non-renewable credential and the standard is what the old regular credential was. DC further added a two year experience requirement to qualify for the standard credential. In the past DC would accept just about any out of state credential and issue a DC regular credential.
Is it? If it was youd have obtained a credential at the conclusion of the program.
You could do that, but it would be difficult. You would likely need to obtain both UT (APT 1) AND MA (Preliminary) credentials. MA requires a seminar component for primary/elementary, and UT doesnt issue ESOL through the APT route, and you are limited to a single credential. You could obtain the UT APT credential in Primary, and then the MA Preliminary credential in ESOL, Literature and General Science 5-8.