Generally grade 6-10 is MYP 1-5, except when grade 6 is PYP 6.
@Thames Pirate generally claims to be right because their @Thames Pirate, and they says their right. I only post from experience and reliable and trusted resources.
Well It might not be the same class, there is no standard for FL and year 6 could be anything compared to MYP 1 Language. Its less a leap at AP to DIP, differences but more congruence.
Its going to have a lot to do with coordinators, HOD's, expectations, resources, scheduling, outcomes. Its going to also depend on how the MYP and DIP differ and are integrated. The LW isnt teaching MYP 4 or 5 , could be the MYP ends at year 3, then the students do IGCSe and then DIP.
I strongly disagree with @Thames Pirate this could be very daunting and MYP and DIP is just double the work, but so much is going to depend on again, expectations. Are the MYP courses low expectation tasking and the DIP course is the focus, or is the DIP course the sprinkles because all the students are native FL speakers. Theres a broad continuum.
the class size could be smaller, but could be larger, and could be the same size, there may be no prepping benefit at all.
Its not so much training the IT but mentoring the IT, are they just throwing the course at the IT with low expectations thinking theyre just going to revolve in and out. This is a condition of good and poor ISs in general though. Only one IT in the subject group must be trained.
Again @Thames Pirate isnt right because they say their right, and is usally wrong. 4 preps with multiple differentiations in mixed phase classes could be a nightmare. It could also be super easy.
Work Load IB
Reply
@Sid
Thanks for agreeing with me, now thats youve confirmed BILINGUAL students dont have to take Language. I am glad you now understand what compulsory is, that language is NOT compulsory, that an IS does not have to offer a SINGLE language course, and that students do NOT have to study language at all.
Thanks for agreeing with me, now thats youve confirmed BILINGUAL students dont have to take Language. I am glad you now understand what compulsory is, that language is NOT compulsory, that an IS does not have to offer a SINGLE language course, and that students do NOT have to study language at all.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Work Load IB
Anyone who thinks DP in a languages department is sprinkles doesn't understand what it is. If they are fluent, they are taking a lit class. You would be teaching literature just like you would in English, only in another language.
Trust the administrator, not the known forum fraud and liar.
Trust the administrator, not the known forum fraud and liar.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
Yes they do they understand its a class that fills out a ISs catalog, no one cares about MYP language, and few Unis give credit for FL in DIP. Being a professional translator or interpreter is only really a career if you have unusual or more exotic languages. If your an engineer who can handle Mandarin the language proficiency is the sprinkles, its a nice line item on a resume. becoming an engineer is far more marketable and has greater utility.
Those ITs that have to constantly advocate the A in STEM, etc. are just artsy people who didnt marry someone in business or sciences.
Leadership, fraud, those are all the same thing. i only post from personal experience and reliable and trusted resources, unlike @Thames Pirate who believes their right because their @Thames Pirate.
Yes they do they understand its a class that fills out a ISs catalog, no one cares about MYP language, and few Unis give credit for FL in DIP. Being a professional translator or interpreter is only really a career if you have unusual or more exotic languages. If your an engineer who can handle Mandarin the language proficiency is the sprinkles, its a nice line item on a resume. becoming an engineer is far more marketable and has greater utility.
Those ITs that have to constantly advocate the A in STEM, etc. are just artsy people who didnt marry someone in business or sciences.
Leadership, fraud, those are all the same thing. i only post from personal experience and reliable and trusted resources, unlike @Thames Pirate who believes their right because their @Thames Pirate.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Work Load IB
Never heard of PYP 6. Seems to be that some schools have an EYP, then PYP 1 to 6. I looked at one school and they have this model - but they still have MYP 1 to 5. Makes me think that "PYP 6" is simply PYP 5 (because they talk about the PYP Exhibition in PYP 6).
So rebranding to have PYP go from K to 5 isn't really anything different. A tiger by any other name...
So rebranding to have PYP go from K to 5 isn't really anything different. A tiger by any other name...
Reply
@SJ
PYP 6 is what you have when primary/elementary (not EC) is years 1-6, and yes they do exhibition is whatever the last year is before lower secondary. Take JP for example; Primary is years 1-6, JHS is years 7-9, and SHS is years 10-12, EC/Kinder/Reception isnt part of the structure. The first year of JHS, year 7 is MYP 1 and year 10 is MYP 4, then students start DIP (though actually most JP DSs would end year 9 with MYP 3, if their SHS that they moved into wouldnt have MYP and just have DIP).
PYP 6 is what you have when primary/elementary (not EC) is years 1-6, and yes they do exhibition is whatever the last year is before lower secondary. Take JP for example; Primary is years 1-6, JHS is years 7-9, and SHS is years 10-12, EC/Kinder/Reception isnt part of the structure. The first year of JHS, year 7 is MYP 1 and year 10 is MYP 4, then students start DIP (though actually most JP DSs would end year 9 with MYP 3, if their SHS that they moved into wouldnt have MYP and just have DIP).
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Thames Pirate
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- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Work Load IB
The MYP is meant to be a 5 year program, though it can be condensed to 4 or even 3 years. While I don't know of any schools that do it in less than 5, that doesn't mean they don't exist. They are probably pretty rare though, as schools that don't have the 1-5/6-10/11-12 setup would not run MYP, but would instead opt for an IGCSE or pre-IB model.
Typically MYP 1,2,3 refers to grades 6-8, so that is likely what the OP will be teaching. Those are the easier years of the MYP as you would not be dealing with the personal projecT. I would still recommend taking on both.
Typically MYP 1,2,3 refers to grades 6-8, so that is likely what the OP will be teaching. Those are the easier years of the MYP as you would not be dealing with the personal projecT. I would still recommend taking on both.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Work Load IB
That's not what I said. You are so intent on arguing with me that you didn't bother to comprehend what I wrote.
I said that it is meant to be a 5 year program and that it can be collapsed to a 3 or 4 year program. I also said that most schools who don't have a 5 year program between primary and the DP don't use MYP and opt for something else that fits their structure and their population more readily. I said nothing about a mandate.
I know you like to have the last word and like to argue with me out of some personal grudge. I will leave you to your last word and urge you to read more carefully before you do so next time.
I said that it is meant to be a 5 year program and that it can be collapsed to a 3 or 4 year program. I also said that most schools who don't have a 5 year program between primary and the DP don't use MYP and opt for something else that fits their structure and their population more readily. I said nothing about a mandate.
I know you like to have the last word and like to argue with me out of some personal grudge. I will leave you to your last word and urge you to read more carefully before you do so next time.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
That is what you said, and I read it accurately:
"...as schools that don't have the 1-5/6-10/11-12 setup would not run MYP...".
This statement is untrue, there is no data that ISs with such a distribution dont or cant run MYP.
That is what you said, and I read it accurately:
"...as schools that don't have the 1-5/6-10/11-12 setup would not run MYP...".
This statement is untrue, there is no data that ISs with such a distribution dont or cant run MYP.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Work Load IB
MYP, since new chapter, runs on a 3 year (community project) or 5 year (personal project), which builds off the exhibition in PYP Year 5. Some schools run MYP for two years, then have a gap program, then go to DP (or might, if the IB sucks them in with this model). This is aimed at the schools which offer PYP, skip MYP, then do DP.
Re: Work Load IB
Hello skybluesky,
The pro of teaching both within the MYP and the DP is that you will see what the end goal is within the continuum of an IB education. The con is that you may not be able to teach at your optimal level because time will be tight.
Administrators who actually understand the conceptual-based nature of MYP units understand that the units take time to develop. To provide quality learning opportunities for students to explore the key and related concepts, the global context and the statement of inquiry takes time. Not to mention the creation of criterion-based summative assessments and the development plan of ATL skills. I review many MYP units from around the world and one of the biggest issues I see is that teachers do not truly understand the conceptual nature of the units. Some teachers are fitting how they use to teach into the MYP unit planner and calling it a day. When you truly use the concepts and contexts as inspiration for the unit, it is obvious and changes your approach to topics you teach.
Yes, teaching MYP years 1-3 and a DP course is going to be a lot in your first year of getting acquainted with the IB standards and practices. Keep in mind that the MYP Language acquisition guide is double the amount of pages as the other MYP subject guides. The pro of that is that it is very specific in terms of the amount of written and spoken words that are expected from students at each phase.
Since Language acquisition courses are taught within the "phase model" with 6 discrete phases existing, find out what phase the current teachers are using in these MYP years. A total of 2 phases are allowed with one classroom situation - i.e. Phases 1-2 in one class and Phases 3-4 in another class. For example, if students in MYP year 1 are all in Phase 1 and students in year 2-3 are in Phases 2-3 it might not be that terrible.
A few questions to ask your future administrators:
1) Can I see the Language acquisition horizontal/vertical planners from the school?
2) Will there be another teacher teaching the same course? (If so, your summative assessments will match due to standardization so this might be a time-saver)
3) Can I see the DP and MYP coordinator's job description? (If the coordinators have little release time you will not receive the support you need)
4) What MYP Language acquisition workshop will you be sending me to? What DP workshop?
A few MYP documents to familiarize yourself with:
1) IB standards and practices (2014)
2) MYP: From principles into practice (2014)
3) MYP Language acquisition guide (2014)
4) IB position paper: Conceptual-based teaching and learning by Lynn Erickson (2012)
If the administrators appear to not know what they are doing I would definitely ask to teach only the MYP your first year because you may not receive the support you need. If you feel the administrators have a good handle on things go for teaching both - it has been done before, just expect to spend a lot of time in your first year reading and developing your lessons.
Hope this helps a bit and good luck! I hope you find the IB road rewarding and inspiring.
The pro of teaching both within the MYP and the DP is that you will see what the end goal is within the continuum of an IB education. The con is that you may not be able to teach at your optimal level because time will be tight.
Administrators who actually understand the conceptual-based nature of MYP units understand that the units take time to develop. To provide quality learning opportunities for students to explore the key and related concepts, the global context and the statement of inquiry takes time. Not to mention the creation of criterion-based summative assessments and the development plan of ATL skills. I review many MYP units from around the world and one of the biggest issues I see is that teachers do not truly understand the conceptual nature of the units. Some teachers are fitting how they use to teach into the MYP unit planner and calling it a day. When you truly use the concepts and contexts as inspiration for the unit, it is obvious and changes your approach to topics you teach.
Yes, teaching MYP years 1-3 and a DP course is going to be a lot in your first year of getting acquainted with the IB standards and practices. Keep in mind that the MYP Language acquisition guide is double the amount of pages as the other MYP subject guides. The pro of that is that it is very specific in terms of the amount of written and spoken words that are expected from students at each phase.
Since Language acquisition courses are taught within the "phase model" with 6 discrete phases existing, find out what phase the current teachers are using in these MYP years. A total of 2 phases are allowed with one classroom situation - i.e. Phases 1-2 in one class and Phases 3-4 in another class. For example, if students in MYP year 1 are all in Phase 1 and students in year 2-3 are in Phases 2-3 it might not be that terrible.
A few questions to ask your future administrators:
1) Can I see the Language acquisition horizontal/vertical planners from the school?
2) Will there be another teacher teaching the same course? (If so, your summative assessments will match due to standardization so this might be a time-saver)
3) Can I see the DP and MYP coordinator's job description? (If the coordinators have little release time you will not receive the support you need)
4) What MYP Language acquisition workshop will you be sending me to? What DP workshop?
A few MYP documents to familiarize yourself with:
1) IB standards and practices (2014)
2) MYP: From principles into practice (2014)
3) MYP Language acquisition guide (2014)
4) IB position paper: Conceptual-based teaching and learning by Lynn Erickson (2012)
If the administrators appear to not know what they are doing I would definitely ask to teach only the MYP your first year because you may not receive the support you need. If you feel the administrators have a good handle on things go for teaching both - it has been done before, just expect to spend a lot of time in your first year reading and developing your lessons.
Hope this helps a bit and good luck! I hope you find the IB road rewarding and inspiring.
Reply
@skybluesky
I would agree with @zenteach that many ITs who dont embrace the IB tend to push what they have already been doing and squeezing it into the IB planer, but this is not unique to MYP, but to IB in general.
Yes, the Course Guidance is about twice as long as other subjects but thats because of A) How Language is organized into Phases. B) How the subject is broken down into separate resource materials. There really isnt a lot more content between language and other subject areas.
@zenteach is incorrect that only two phases are allowed in one classroom setting, an IS has absolute discretion how they organize courses. There is nothing permitting an IS from putting 3 phases together in a classroom or all 6 phases in one classroom setting.
if you have a choice, I strongly disagree with @zenteach, DIP is far more valuable than MYP, and I would instead try to move into DIP than only remain in MYP. If you must do MYP or MYP and DIP, than do the DIP, its far more marketable than MYP.
If leadership doesnt know what they are doing, then they arent going to know if your doing MYP poorly or planing poorly, or anything else for that matter, which would be a strong indicator they have low expectations.
I wouldnt ask for the MYP Coordinators job description.
I would agree with @zenteach that many ITs who dont embrace the IB tend to push what they have already been doing and squeezing it into the IB planer, but this is not unique to MYP, but to IB in general.
Yes, the Course Guidance is about twice as long as other subjects but thats because of A) How Language is organized into Phases. B) How the subject is broken down into separate resource materials. There really isnt a lot more content between language and other subject areas.
@zenteach is incorrect that only two phases are allowed in one classroom setting, an IS has absolute discretion how they organize courses. There is nothing permitting an IS from putting 3 phases together in a classroom or all 6 phases in one classroom setting.
if you have a choice, I strongly disagree with @zenteach, DIP is far more valuable than MYP, and I would instead try to move into DIP than only remain in MYP. If you must do MYP or MYP and DIP, than do the DIP, its far more marketable than MYP.
If leadership doesnt know what they are doing, then they arent going to know if your doing MYP poorly or planing poorly, or anything else for that matter, which would be a strong indicator they have low expectations.
I wouldnt ask for the MYP Coordinators job description.
Re: Work Load IB
PsyGuy is correct on this one, as I should of said "recommended" rather than "allowed." However if the school is an IB candidate school at this point in time, the IB consultant will most likely tell the Language acquisition department to follow the recommendation.
On pages 20-21 of the MYP Language acquisition guide it states:
"It is at the school’s discretion to group students in the six phases. However, it is essential to consider first and foremost a reasonable differentiation and manageable combination of proficiencies in one class. The school should take into account the demands on the teacher to concentrate on the needs of all the students and to plan appropriate teaching strategies and learning experiences for all. Teachers should take note of the following recommendations.
• Students should be grouped in no more than two consecutive phases in one class together."
So can there be more than 2 phases in a course? Yes. Is it good practice? You be the judge. A teacher with four phases in a class will need to differentiate quite a bit more in lessons and summative assessments as the written language requirements of words and/or characters are different.
I did not state that the MYP is more valuable than the DP. In fact, I think they are equally valuable. It looked like skybluesky was mainly assigned MYP courses so it might of been easier to ask for only MYP in year one. I think it is wise of skybluesky to consider this potential teaching overload before jumping in. Sure, teachers can and do teach both in their first year of teaching within the IB, however is that always the best scenario for quality instruction for students? If skybluesky said he/she had one MYP course and one DP course (2 preps) it is much more doable, however it looks like he/she will have multiple different preps.
Part of the reason why it may seem some teachers are not embracing the IB as PsyGuy stated is because they are spread entirely too thin. This is why I personally think it is smart to not overwhelm teachers who are new to the IB with multiple different preps. It takes quite a few years to become a seasoned MYP and/or DP teacher, though that can be catalyzed when you start small and then grow into more.
As you can see, a potential issue at some schools can be the MYP/DP divide where people want to put more value in one programme over the other. The must successful schools place equal value in both the MYP and the DP and clearly build upon the alignments in both programmes. The MYP is a simply a framework and the teachers can get as content heavy as they'd like to adequately prepare for the DP.
It all comes down to one's perspective. The MYP spans 5 grade levels and the DP spans 2 grade levels. When looking for jobs in the future there are more grade level options with the MYP. That being said I do think if you have experience teaching both that can be the most marketable.
A MYP and DP coordinator's job description should be available to the community stakeholders. It can be helpful when it is detailed enough so that new employees know what type of support to expect from the coordinator. If you do not ask for the coordinator's job description definitely ask what types of supports are in place for new teachers to receive guidance from the coordinator.
On pages 20-21 of the MYP Language acquisition guide it states:
"It is at the school’s discretion to group students in the six phases. However, it is essential to consider first and foremost a reasonable differentiation and manageable combination of proficiencies in one class. The school should take into account the demands on the teacher to concentrate on the needs of all the students and to plan appropriate teaching strategies and learning experiences for all. Teachers should take note of the following recommendations.
• Students should be grouped in no more than two consecutive phases in one class together."
So can there be more than 2 phases in a course? Yes. Is it good practice? You be the judge. A teacher with four phases in a class will need to differentiate quite a bit more in lessons and summative assessments as the written language requirements of words and/or characters are different.
I did not state that the MYP is more valuable than the DP. In fact, I think they are equally valuable. It looked like skybluesky was mainly assigned MYP courses so it might of been easier to ask for only MYP in year one. I think it is wise of skybluesky to consider this potential teaching overload before jumping in. Sure, teachers can and do teach both in their first year of teaching within the IB, however is that always the best scenario for quality instruction for students? If skybluesky said he/she had one MYP course and one DP course (2 preps) it is much more doable, however it looks like he/she will have multiple different preps.
Part of the reason why it may seem some teachers are not embracing the IB as PsyGuy stated is because they are spread entirely too thin. This is why I personally think it is smart to not overwhelm teachers who are new to the IB with multiple different preps. It takes quite a few years to become a seasoned MYP and/or DP teacher, though that can be catalyzed when you start small and then grow into more.
As you can see, a potential issue at some schools can be the MYP/DP divide where people want to put more value in one programme over the other. The must successful schools place equal value in both the MYP and the DP and clearly build upon the alignments in both programmes. The MYP is a simply a framework and the teachers can get as content heavy as they'd like to adequately prepare for the DP.
It all comes down to one's perspective. The MYP spans 5 grade levels and the DP spans 2 grade levels. When looking for jobs in the future there are more grade level options with the MYP. That being said I do think if you have experience teaching both that can be the most marketable.
A MYP and DP coordinator's job description should be available to the community stakeholders. It can be helpful when it is detailed enough so that new employees know what type of support to expect from the coordinator. If you do not ask for the coordinator's job description definitely ask what types of supports are in place for new teachers to receive guidance from the coordinator.