Work Load IB

skybluesky
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:48 am

Work Load IB

Post by skybluesky »

Hello everyone,

What is everyone's pinion on teaching both MYP and DP for the first time (no prior IB experience) at a tier 3 school? I've been told that a full-time teacher has 26 to 27 hours a week of classes, but the schedule is different each day, the schedule is from 8:45 to 17:30. I've been thinking about trying to negotiate only MYP, but would that make it more manageable or would this be fine as a new IB teacher? Class size around 25 for MYP and 10-15 for DP.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by Thames Pirate »

You didn't mention how many sections of each you will be teaching or how many preps you will have. Teaching 3 classes of DP Econ 12 and 2 classes of MYP Business Studies is different from teaching 2 Econ 12s, a DP History 11, a DP History 12, a 6th Humanities, 2 8th history, and a 9th Geography. There is a huge difference between 80-90 kids/ 2 preps and 140-160 kids and 6 preps!

The work load varies so dramatically school to school that it's hard to say what you will have, but I would say get the DP experience. Good teaching is good teaching, and marking is marking. Also, until 17:30!?
ronaldtheclown81
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by ronaldtheclown81 »

Understand that MYP courses are going to be significantly more work than DP courses in a school that doesn't already have materials created. The DP subject guide tells you exactly what to teach, and there's less of an emphasis on creative lessons. Motivation is easier. You prepare students for the test. With MYP, you'll have more projects that use different grading criteria and you have to differentiate a lot more. The MYP is a harder to learn and requires a lot more time. Be prepared to work far beyond the required hours, especially if you have multiple preps.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

It depends what youre preps are? I strongly agree with @Thames Pirate, its one thing to have to prep a small number of courses with repetitive delivery than it is having a large number of preps that you are teaching only one class of. It also matters how divergent the subject matter is. Its one thing if your teaching all history across successive grades than it is teaching general science in a multi purpose room, and chemistry in a lab, and biology in the field.

I disagree with @ronaldtheclown81, DIP can be easier than MYP, but a lot depends on how developed the MYP is and what the ISs and leaderships expectations are. At a tier 3 IS I can imagine very easily that the MYP program is IB in name only. A couple posters, a checklist and at 50 hours it can be a lot easier than DIP especially if your not teaching in an integrated project course, in which case the MYP courses can be anything you want them to be.
DIP is far more marketable than MYP, and youll have meaningful results and performance data for your resume.
skybluesky
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:48 am

Re: Work Load IB

Post by skybluesky »

Thanks for everyone's responses. I would be teaching 26- 27 hours of class and I would be teaching MYP 1, 2 & 3 Language Acquisition (I think) and DP 1 ( 4 sessions) a week.
The hours for collaborative planning are 2 hours per week (1 for MYP and 1 for DP.

I definitely want IB experience but it seems I would need more prep time especially if this is my first year teaching IB. What does everyone think?
Thames Pirate
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by Thames Pirate »

That's a fairly average schedule and work load (assuming class sizes 16-24). Do the DP. You get the experience, and sure, the first year of teaching any new course is hard, but next year will be easy. Also, backing out communicates fear of DP, unwillingness to work, and inability to cope, even if that isn't your rationale. Stick with the schedule you've got. Your first year won't be your best, but that is true with any new curriculum, no matter when you start teaching it.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@skybluesky

You need to determine not only what your instructional hours are but your contract hours as well. 26-27 instructional hours is in the range of average, but you have a somewhat long day based on your daily schedule of 8:45-17:30. What are the ASP requirements. Two hours of meeting (1 MYP, 1 DIP) isnt unreasonable, but you need to find out why. Is the IS going through authorization, or hat is the expectation. Honestly, I cant imagine a department thats organized and functional having to meet for an hour each week, unless theres major curriculum structuring to do, or theres 'something else'.

Id be cautious about language acquisition using standard year identifierers. How is ESOL structured, assessed and assigned. Its one thing to your planing to have an MYP 1 language class where everyone is in the same proficiency band. Its another to have a classes assigned based solely on age/year but vastly differing language proficiency. You would have to differentiate each class into sub groups with sub lessons, and it could easily magnify the workload.

Are you really being assigned DIP? 4 sessions a week of one class sounds more like a tutoring, enrichment, ASAP more than an assigned course.

It really depends what the expectations are, if they really want language improvement, if there is a deeply remedial population of ESOL students, your going to need more resources and time. If they just want you to go though some workbooks, and CDs, than its not that bad of a schedule.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by Thames Pirate »

Are you EAL or modern languages? It sounds like the latter. By MYP 1,2,3 I am guessing you mean 6th, 7th, and 8th grade as that is standard terminology.

As far as workload, your MYP coordinator will matter as the expectations for MYP are broad. The MYP coordinator will determine how check-box you get and how much time you spend making units work for MYP vs. making MYP work for the units. if you've taught the class in some form before, it's not that much.

4 sessions of DP is not unusual depending on how long classes are.

There is no real reason not to teach both from the get-go.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@skybluesky

MYP 1,2,3 is standard terminology, as is "year x", grade is more common in ASs, but most people would know what you mean. US ITs can blink and get confused when they hear terms like "grade 13".

I do agree your MYP coordinator and to an equivalent extent your HOD will have a heavy influence on what your work load is.

I assumed you were teaching ESOL, based on your schedule, usually a FL IT is a whole school or all secondary appointment.
I also assumed that "4 sessions a week" meant you taught 4 groups of students a single class period of instruction a week. If that is not true and your teaching one group of students 4 class periods of instruction a week, than thats within the range of typical, depending on scheduling of your IS.

What will also matter is the annual/term calendar. If your MYP/DIP courses are electives (such as FL) do you have the same group of studnts (class) all year, a term (semester, half a year), or some alternating elective schedule where you get them for 2 months, and then they rotate to another enrichment/elective? If you have these courses for only 8 weeks or so, than getting 50 hours of instruction becomes a challenge to organization and preparation.
sid
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by sid »

Ok, here's the skinny on Language Acquisition a la MYP. It differs from much of what is written above.

Language Acquisition is a subject group in the MYP. It used to be called Language B, but that changed years ago. It is not EAL (although it could be used to teach English), nor is it an elective. Every MYP student must take at least 2 languages. Typically one is in the subject group "Language and Literature" (essentially for fluent speakers) and the second is in "Language Acquisition". Students can also take their 2 languages in Language and Literature (but cannot take both in Language Acquisition). Students can sometimes, if the school has the facilities, take a 3rd language at whatever level.

If the language of the school is English, than Language Acquisition is not (usually) EAL. Schools only offer English in Language Acquisition if they have a different language of instruction, like Spanish or Mandarin. Simply put, if English is the only Language and Literature course offered (which is very typical though not universal), than English cannot also be Language Acquisition, because that would mean students weren't getting their required 2 languages, 1 at Language and Literature level. If a school has 2 languages on offer at Language and Literature level, than there are more possibilities.

I have the feeling this is clear as mud. And yes, it does mean that a student might be taking English at Language and Literature level, and also be receiving EAL support, and simultaneously taking another language at Language Acquisition level.

Here's more complexities:
Recognizing that students have different linguistic backgrounds (different starting points) and will acquire new languages at different rates, the MYP requires that all Language Acquisition students be assessed as to what "Phase" they are in (there is official guidance as to what puts a student at Phase 1 or 2 or whatever. There are 6 Phases in total, and a student reaching Phase 6 is considered just slightly below the Language and Literature level. Students mastering Phase 6 are meant to be transitioned into Language and Literature courses if the school has them.

Schools may or may not organize their classes so that Phases are taught separately. Students in Year 1 might be at Phase 1 if the language is completely new to them, or at Phase 3 or higher if they already have background. Typically students are all over the place - a wide range of Phases at each year level. So does the school organize classes by Phase, or by Year group? It will make a huge difference. If you're teaching 4 MYP Language Acquisition classes, is that 1 Phase per class, or mixed Phases in each class?

You need to get more info from the school before you can understand the teaching load they are proposing. To me, it seems quite a lot, especially for a new teacher.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

The material provided prior to @sids post is accurate.

Language Acquisition used to be called Language B and Literature used to be called Language A. Literature is often used to refer to "Language and Literature" and Language is used to refer to "Language Acquisition".

Language can absolutely be ESOL, and you can have students in ESOL, who are also in Literature and Language courses. Language can absolutely be a an elective. Language is a mandated component with the exception of students who are already bilingual. Meaning if a students native language is Mandarin and the language of instruction is English and they are in Literature (and its taught in English) they have no further Language course requirements.
Further, Language requires no more than 50 hours of instruction, as any other subject group, meaning that an IS can and often does schedule Language as a rotating elective/enricment course. Students will take year round courses in the academic core subjects (Maths, Science, Humanities, Literature) and then enrichment courses are rotated as electives on either a 2, 3, or 4 term schedule. They might take PHE the first 10 weeks of the year then take Theater for 10 weeks, then take Language for the third 10 weeks, etc.

If a IS offers a bilingual program such as a Chinese IS that offers some part of the program by western ITs in English and other parts of the program in Mandarin then they have more flexibility, but really the 50 hour time makes the yearly schedule very flexible.

I disagree with @Sid that while the scenario of a student in Literature could be receiving ESOL support and in Language is more uncommon, likely the student meets the bilingual requirement and doesnt have to take any further Language courses, which is different than an IS scheduling a student for additional language. Ive seen ISs that did this, because it made the scheduling easier and you end up with a student who is in their native language, language course (its more a study hour for them, and if the IT isnt using the student, releasing them to the library is common).

@Sid is correct that there are 6 phases within Language and that mastering phase 6 is indicative of a student who is ready for literature, but depending on the year phase 5 is often appropriate. Language is assessed as emergent, capable, or proficient, many students at phase 5 are assessed as proficient.

ISs have a lot of flexibility to organize classes. It is this issue I addressed in my prior post. Do you have mixed phase classes scheduled by year, or are the classes scheduled by phase. Most ISs for simplicity probably do it by year with mixed phases in one class, meaning you may have a lot of differentiating to do. Most ITs collapse/aggregate some levels within a class.

Again, it depends mostly what their expectations are and the scheduling. If your getting all emergent learners (Language is assessed as emergent, capable, or proficient), and your scheduled as an elective/enrichment course, and they just want you to play some CDs and move through some workbooks for a couple months, its not going to be a lot of work. If youve got motivated (students, parents, leadership) that has high expectations and wants miracles over the course of a year with mixed phase students scheduled by year, and your doing that at MYP 1, 2 and 3, you could have a dozen or more differentiated preps a day.

What I agree with @sid is that you need more information on scheduling, course composition and expectations.
sid
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by sid »

Oh dear.

I refer you to the IB's website, which summarizes:
"The International Baccalaureate® (IB) Middle Years Programme (MYP) comprises eight subject groups:
Language acquisition.
Language and literature.
Individuals and societies.
Sciences.
Mathematics.
Arts.
Physical and health education.
Design.
The MYP requires at least 50 hours of teaching time for each subject group in each year of the programme."

Also this: "MYP language acquisition is a compulsory component of the MYP in every year of the programme. Schools must provide sustained language learning in at least two languages for each year of the MYP."

Language Acquisition is in no way an elective or an option. MYP students MUST study at least 2 languages. If they have the chops, they can take both at Language and Literature level. Otherwise, it's 1 and 1, and students cannot test out...

It can in theory be taught for only 50 hours a year, but again the IB allows that, and also specifically discourages it. Students don't do well without sustained learning. Taking a term of language, then not returning it to it until a year later... This would be a major philosophical issue, and any IB Visiting Team would make a big deal of it.

OP, please refer to the IB's website if you still wonder what is what. PG, I invite you to post quotes from there, or other official MYP materials, if you think you can find any to support your notions. Without support from the IB, your views are not "opinions", not "my experience" not whatever you like to call them. They are simply wrong.

I don't tend to enjoy drawn-out back and forth with PG, so since I've made my point, I'll make my exit.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Work Load IB

Post by Thames Pirate »

Sid, your explanation of language acquisition was good! MYP 1,2,3,4, and 5 is grades 6-10. Don't listen to PG, who is known to make things up rather than admit a mistake.

I don't think the OP is a new teacher, just new to IB. So if they taught 6th grade Spanish before and are now teaching MYP 1 language acquisition, it's the same class--just in an MYP framework. If they have taught AP French and are now teaching DP ab initio or Lang (B or A), it's a bigger leap, but obviously very doable assuming they know the subject.

I think the OP's question is around learning the MYP and the DP. That will depend heavily on coordinators (and colleagues), but learning both in a year is not much more daunting than one, especially if MYP 1-3 is basically a familiar course. I also find the MYP easier if you know a bit about the DP (not because they are alike--they aren't), but because I like knowing what I am working toward. But that's me. Also IME, language classes are smaller than others, especially at the MYP. This balances the extra prepping to some extent.

Also a determining factor is if the school trains you. If they say figure it out vs. sending you to an MYP workshop, is a huge difference, and if they only send you to one vs. both. If so, do the DP. If those meetings are required stupid stuff vs. collaboration and mentoring also matters.

What it boils down to is that 4 preps is not an unreasonable load. The MYP is a framework for something it sounds like you've taught before, and the transition to it is easier (especially in your subject and in years 1-3 IMO) as a result. After all, good teaching is good teaching. The DP is actually a bit different and will require more because you need to learn both what is assessed and how (and there are rules about the amount and nature of the feedback on certain things, etc.).

There is no way to accurately predict the workload as there are so many factors (I have seen schools waste meeting time discussing how the IB wants you to put the school logo on internal assessments--learning either program is a nightmare at these schools, let alone both). However, if this is routinely done at this school, take the experience. Again, good teaching is good teaching--fall back on that when you get overwhelmed with the other stuff.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

i refer you to the MYp Study Brief for Language, part !! "Curriculum Overview"
http://www.ibo.org/globalassets/digital ... n_2015.pdf

"MYP language acquisition is a compulsory component in every year of the MYP, EXCEPT FOR BILINGUAL STUDENTS who pursue courses of study in multiple languages in the MYP language and literature subject group".

No you are wrong, your opinion is absent merit, and your rhetoric unpersuasive. They MUST study two LITERATURE in two languages, they need not study language at all, hence it is not compulsory if I can avoid it with alternatives. An IS need not offer a single Language course, whereas it must compulsory offer Literature. You should learn the definition of compulsory.

Language is often scheduled as an elective a partial year rotating enrichment course, as opposed to a year round core academic course.

Thee is nothing "theoretical" the guidance documents require 50 hours per year, the IB recommends 70, but thats only a recommendation.
Students dont have to do well. No one cares about IB language results in MYP. You dont even have to get a bilingual Diploma in DIP.

No not "any" visitations team would have an issue with it, who cares if they do, you meet requirements you get authorized.
sid
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Re: Reply

Post by sid »

I can't resist. Why am I so weak?
First this:

PsyGuy wrote:
Meaning if a students native language is
> Mandarin and the language of instruction is English and they are in
> Literature (and its taught in English) they have no further Language course
> requirements.

And then this:
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Sid
>
> i refer you to the MYp Study Brief for Language, part !! "Curriculum Overview"
> http://www.ibo.org/globalassets/digital ... n_2015.pdf
>
> "MYP language acquisition is a compulsory component in every year of the MYP, EXCEPT
> FOR BILINGUAL STUDENTS who pursue courses of study in multiple languages in the
> MYP language and literature subject group".
>


So, PG posts an IB quote that confirms my point (students must take at least 2 languages: "pursue courses of study in multiple languages in the MYP language and literature subject group") and claims that it supports his point (that students need only take 1).

Hmm...

Ok, really, this time I'm out.
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