Is provisional license experience seen differently by employers than post-license experience?

[Mencoh]

Succinct question.

I've heard it argued that even if someone were to pursue the UT AEL or MA Provisional, the experience they could acquire under said licensing wouldn't be equal to the experience someone acquires after acquiring a professional license -- even something like Teach Now or Teacher Ready. As in, their first two years wouldn't be seen as competitive.

I have no idea if this is true or not. It's the Internet. I'm skeptical, but it would be useful to get input for someone still considering their licensing path and either have my skepticism confirmed or dismantled.

[sid]

To this recruiter, it makes not a jot of difference. The key thing is having a license and some experience.

[LaylaH]

To get real world information, you need to talk to real people. Ask for a short informational meeting with the director at your top IS in your area. Yes, they are all busy but ultimately people in education like people and will want to help. Bring coffee and a list of questions. IE is a small world and people know people. A director will be able to tell you their views and perhaps put you in touch with someone who can help you directly.

[sid]

???

[shadowjack]

Mencoh,

if you have a provisional licence, my first question would be, "Have they taught two years?". If the answer is yes, then it is down to experience, fit, and other items in references and CVs. If I am in a country where licencing is stricter, my question might be, "Is this provisional licence expiring? How hard might it be for this person to have it renewed?" That might be a dealbreaker there. It depends on the country.

[Mencoh]

LaylahH, I appreciate your advice, though I admit I am less... optimistic, I'd say, about the average person's eagerness to have such a friendly conversation. Maybe I'm just feeling a little Ebenezer Scrooge this year. The pandemic also complicates things, but later I can politely request people's time without pestering them.

Shadowjack, I should have specific that this with zero competitive resume experience. I know that renewing or upgrading the UT AEL or MA Provisional is possible, though I haven't specifically outlined how yet. I've been informed the NJ Standard, CA Clear, or HI Standard are options. I'm sure there are finer details and extenuating circumstances, however.

I'm budgeting to afford Teacher Ready should I require it, as the online course is self-paced and I don't mind returning to the US for my teaching exams and mentor teaching. I just obviously won't spend the money if I don't have to, as I'd rather invest it in a regionally-accredited Master's or maybe Bitcoin or tech industry stocks.

A previous thread I posted outline a lot of this, but I feel this was a question I neglected to ask and am doing my research to ensure that should I begin teaching on a provisional, I won't regret it in two years.

[Modernist]

As I'm the one who said it, I believe, I would just add that obviously it depends on a lot of factors. Some people will be lucky, some not. The world changes over time, so what was true then, and is true now, may not be later on. When you make a major decision like this, I think the best bet is to be cautious. Go for the high standard and you'll be prepared for almost any switch in the climate down the road.

When it comes to high quality ISs, they want the best candidates, which means people with domestic experience, which in turn generally implies a domestic program leading to a domestic license. TR and TN are not that, not any more if they ever were. They are loophole programs for people living abroad teaching ESL or unqualified people teaching subjects (like me at the moment). UT AEL and MA Provisional even more so. There is no way to spin the reality away from that. Everyone at every decent school knows what they are and what they mean. That's not to say that certain people haven't been able to get perfectly decent jobs using them or that some recruiters/schools don't care.

The question is how much will their value decline year on year, as more and more people try to use them? Go back and count the threads just on this one forum in just the last year/18 months from person after person trying to use the same paths. Then add on the increasingly desperate attempts to hide the true origins (HI or CA license laundering, trying to get UK QTS based on Teach Now, on and on). If no one treats them differently or cares one way or the other, then why do so many people seem so 'motivated' to shield their shiny new UT or DC or FL credentials under the blanket of another credential?

There's no free lunch. When something seems too good to be true, it is. Add your own cliché here.

[Mencoh]

Thanks Modernist, will keep in consideration.

[Heliotrope]

In response to @Modernist's comment:
From what I've heard from recruiters, they don't care too much where/how you got your credential.
It's just a box they need to tick, so they can move on to the things they WILL use to differentiate between candidates: years of experience, references, etc.

[Mencoh]

Modernist is right that there's no free lunch. A brick-and-mortar Master's with at-home experience is leagues better, etc., but people also pay a lot of money for Jesus on toast.

You would also be right to post on a medical forum with someone asking about their competitiveness with an osteopathic residency and say, "Why are you doing D.O.? Don't you understand that an allopathic residency and a Johns Hopkins degree is way better?"

Always technically correct, but the reality is that many people work with the best they've got.

The question is whether you can have a shit resume for the price of air priority shipping, or if you need to pay $6,000 to have a shit resume. Several in this thread are saying the former.

[PsyGuy]

There is a small but real number of leaders and recruiters that dont consider anything but an academically earned EPP/ITT program pathway as legitimate, but K12/KS experience in a proper DS/IS following a legitimate primary and secondary curriculum is valid experience for IE regardless of the quality of or lack of an edu credential.

I do not see how the suggestion of @LaylaH is feasible or realistic. You might get a leader to talk over a pint or a pour but advisement in terms of a formal meeting, no.

I tend to disagree with @SJ, regardless of the grade of credential the question a recruiter/leader asks next is what experience do they have. Expiration of the credential is a legitimate concern regardless of the grade, a professional credential thats about to expire is more a concern than a provisional credential with several years of validity before expiration.

@Modernist

Thats just not true, as I wrote on another post. When many DOEs retired their lifetime credentials, having completed academic EPP/ITT programs didnt provide any insulation about the loss of those credentials.

First/Elite tier ISs dont care all that much about domestic DS experience in their ITs, that experience is typically so far back in an ITs resume its not substantially relevant. They dont even so much care at that point in an ITs career what grade their credential is. Do they know what their doing and do they have the performance evidence to back it up. Do they work well with leadership, colleagues, parents and students, do they 'fit' well. Those factors matter far, far more than if there credential is professional or entry or if their first experience in edu was obtained in DE or IE.

TR and TN were never that.

No they dont, credential evaluation and assessment is a esoterically niche aspect of IE and IE recruitment. The IS that care and spend time on it are not the best or the top tier ISs they are the bottom third tier ISs, because its at that level that recruiters and leaders can pay less coin for title differences in a credential.

Its not "so many people" its really just UK ITs, because their goal is QTS and avoiding induction. US ITs care about PD and renewal, not so much the grade of their credential.

I did like your use of "license laundering", its very apropos.