Hi,
I've been reading through a lot of the excellent advice here and I’m hoping to get advice and information to make a more informed career decision.
I’m considering moving back to the UK to do a PGCE Primary (School Direct salaried looks the best option) and staying there for the NQT year (and perhaps an additional year) before later moving into IE (I'd be flexible about location, preferably Asia because my fiancée is Korean and there may be more opportunities for both of us).
I’m early thirties and have been teaching English as a foreign language in Korea for the best part of a decade both in public schools and for the past few years at university level. I’ve also worked as an IELTS speaking and writing examiner and have an MA but not in an Education field.
I’d be qualified to go for a PGCE in Secondary Spanish, but (correct me if I’m wrong) this wouldn’t seem to be the smartest move when targeting IE jobs in Asia because I don’t imagine there to be a high demand for this subject. I should add that I’m a native English speaker but not a native Spanish speaker, if that matters. Secondary English is another option, but having spent some time volunteering at a Primary School in the UK, I feel I’d rather teach the full range of Primary subjects at KS2 level.
I understand that none of these are shortage subjects and that bringing a non-teaching spouse will further reduce my prospects. I’m wondering about the longer term prospects if I’m willing to cut my teeth for a few years at lower tier ISs? I’m also wondering if anyone else has been in a similar circumstance and how they have found the job market? Which countries might represent better opportunities for both of us to find work?
I enjoy working at university and it offers a great work/life balance, but possibilities of career progression here are very restricted and staying in the TESOL field with a trailing Korean spouse would seem to leave my options beyond Korea very limited. We would both like to work internationally which is why we’re looking at this move. Short term it's a financial hit but longer term I'm looking to know if the potential outcome and possibilities for career development will be better.
Thanks for reading and any advice would be much appreciated.
Advice for Uni TESOL teacher looking to move into IE
Response
Did your spouse recently post to the forum with this issue (from their POV)? This sounds familiar.
Salaried School Direct (SSCD) sounds like a great idea but its just not a realistic option for Spanish or Literature. SSCD is an option for DTs entering in STEM subjects. You arent going to find a DS thats willing to take you for SSCD, unless you know someone who can hire you to do so.
Spanish as an FL isnt the highest in demand, but its no better or worse for Literature, especially without having an academic background or experience in teaching Lit. Thats really your problem for both building experience and completing induction. You have to find a DS willing to give you the coin for doing it. Its different when doing your ITT (PGCE) because your paying the Uni and the DS doesnt give you anything in the way of coin. You arent a cost to them. The same is true for primary, while there are lots of vacancies the feeling of ISs varies from "anyone can do it" too its Edutainment too its a reading program. There are a lot of primary DTs/ITs. Of the three you mentioned Primary is probably the worst, at least with Spanish your in a niche and with Literature after a few years of having SSl experience that would be the most marketable of the three.
The ESOl is worth nothing in IE. Most ISs treat ESOL as poison.
In IE there is a preference for native speakers in FL. In lower tiers ISs dont bother with FL except for English. In upper tier ISs they can usually get a native speaker.
IE probably isnt going to meet the goals you want. ESOL and being an ET gets a bad rep, and the mistake is comparing comp with out considering hours. When you are an ET youre in and your out when your lessons are over. if you are whether its a lesson or a meeting, your getting coin for it. When you leave, you truly leave. You dont spend X hours marking and Y hours on lesson planing. At the point you are in your ET career its likely you will do better staying in EE (especially if you move into leadership or ownership) then you will working your way through IE. Youre already into the Uni environment, losing a lot of that experience entering into IE is going to hurt. The only way I see it working for the real payoff is if you can move into leadership very quickly.
Probably staying in SK or in China, the region with the coin is generally considered to be the ME.
Salaried School Direct (SSCD) sounds like a great idea but its just not a realistic option for Spanish or Literature. SSCD is an option for DTs entering in STEM subjects. You arent going to find a DS thats willing to take you for SSCD, unless you know someone who can hire you to do so.
Spanish as an FL isnt the highest in demand, but its no better or worse for Literature, especially without having an academic background or experience in teaching Lit. Thats really your problem for both building experience and completing induction. You have to find a DS willing to give you the coin for doing it. Its different when doing your ITT (PGCE) because your paying the Uni and the DS doesnt give you anything in the way of coin. You arent a cost to them. The same is true for primary, while there are lots of vacancies the feeling of ISs varies from "anyone can do it" too its Edutainment too its a reading program. There are a lot of primary DTs/ITs. Of the three you mentioned Primary is probably the worst, at least with Spanish your in a niche and with Literature after a few years of having SSl experience that would be the most marketable of the three.
The ESOl is worth nothing in IE. Most ISs treat ESOL as poison.
In IE there is a preference for native speakers in FL. In lower tiers ISs dont bother with FL except for English. In upper tier ISs they can usually get a native speaker.
IE probably isnt going to meet the goals you want. ESOL and being an ET gets a bad rep, and the mistake is comparing comp with out considering hours. When you are an ET youre in and your out when your lessons are over. if you are whether its a lesson or a meeting, your getting coin for it. When you leave, you truly leave. You dont spend X hours marking and Y hours on lesson planing. At the point you are in your ET career its likely you will do better staying in EE (especially if you move into leadership or ownership) then you will working your way through IE. Youre already into the Uni environment, losing a lot of that experience entering into IE is going to hurt. The only way I see it working for the real payoff is if you can move into leadership very quickly.
Probably staying in SK or in China, the region with the coin is generally considered to be the ME.
Re: Advice for Uni TESOL teacher looking to move into IE
Hi PsyGuy,
Thanks for taking the time to post, much appreciated. She hasn't posted on here so it must have been someone else.
I've been checking the UCAS vacancies for a while and even now there are still a lot of vacancies for Primary salaried school direct positions. Unless UCAS continues to advertise filled vacancies? Apparently the number of applications for postgrad routes into teaching (in the UK) fell by 33% since last year, which might explain it. Only a small minority of the salaried vacancies on UCAS now are in Primary Maths and the rest are Primary General. Going off that, it seems like the salaried route might be possible.
When you say move into leadership positions in IE, what would be the typical routes to do this, the positions generally available and the typical timeframes to do so? I guess that's the crux of what I'm asking - to try and gauge the potential payoff/viability of switching career and where I'd set my goals.
Your last point is valid and something I'm giving serious thought. The Uni gig here is very generous in terms of work conditions and the free time allows opportunities to bank money on the side, but it's equally dead-end in that none of our faculty have ever moved into real leadership positions. Even those with a PhD only see a very modest salary raise and added job security. Each year in the job scarcely benefits my CV and should anything happen to the uni field here, I'd have all my eggs in one basket. I'm thinking that if I could go home and get my PGCE +2 years, and then IE doesn't work out, I could probably go back into the Uni field here as a plan B, or perhaps try for the Hong Kong NET scheme. The goal would be more career progression opportunities and opening more doors beyond Korea (it's rare in TESOL for employers to cover a spouse's VISA, for example).
Thanks for taking the time to post, much appreciated. She hasn't posted on here so it must have been someone else.
I've been checking the UCAS vacancies for a while and even now there are still a lot of vacancies for Primary salaried school direct positions. Unless UCAS continues to advertise filled vacancies? Apparently the number of applications for postgrad routes into teaching (in the UK) fell by 33% since last year, which might explain it. Only a small minority of the salaried vacancies on UCAS now are in Primary Maths and the rest are Primary General. Going off that, it seems like the salaried route might be possible.
When you say move into leadership positions in IE, what would be the typical routes to do this, the positions generally available and the typical timeframes to do so? I guess that's the crux of what I'm asking - to try and gauge the potential payoff/viability of switching career and where I'd set my goals.
Your last point is valid and something I'm giving serious thought. The Uni gig here is very generous in terms of work conditions and the free time allows opportunities to bank money on the side, but it's equally dead-end in that none of our faculty have ever moved into real leadership positions. Even those with a PhD only see a very modest salary raise and added job security. Each year in the job scarcely benefits my CV and should anything happen to the uni field here, I'd have all my eggs in one basket. I'm thinking that if I could go home and get my PGCE +2 years, and then IE doesn't work out, I could probably go back into the Uni field here as a plan B, or perhaps try for the Hong Kong NET scheme. The goal would be more career progression opportunities and opening more doors beyond Korea (it's rare in TESOL for employers to cover a spouse's VISA, for example).
Reply
@jarra
Well if your the "right" kind of person sure its possible, but every LEA posts everything for UCAS since it doesnt hurt them in any way to do so. There is also no motivation for them to remove or update the vacancies. My experience is that candidates who applied for that were than later told that they could do SCD but it wouldnt be salaried.
Yes they fell by about a third but its the sciences and maths that got hurt, there really isnt any high demand for primary, many DSs are happy appointing unqualified DTs at the lowest salary.
You can try, it doesnt hurt but be prepared.
There are 3 general avenues into leadership:
1) Grow In: You start at an IS as an IT, you work well with leadership, parents and ownership, and then when there is an opening you get the job because ownership trusts you and leadership and parents like you. This pathway is faster at lower tier ISs, where there is a lot of turnover and longevity often means your only one of the few staff to renew.
2) Work In: You get a M.Ed in Ed.Ld, you add a credential, you build some leadership or management experience and you work your way up into leadership. This may and often requires some work in DE. This is the pathway that accounts for the majority of leadership. Candidates were leadership in DE, and they were hired as leadership in IE.
3) Edge In: You make friends and build a network, maybe you marry into, but someone in ownership likes you and gives you the job, or someone in leadership helps you get into the job. This is the least common path into leadership.
If you move into IE you will be starting over, the last 10 years will mean nothing. Where you are now while you arent likely to go much higher in your Uni, your certainly candidate material for Center Manager, Academic Manager or DOS at a Hagwon . Its also much easier and less costly to start your own ES. Compared to IE you will never own your own IS and it will be 5+ years before you can look at Leadership in IE. Usually if your growing into an ISs leadership its around 4 years (end of your second contract) that you can make that pitch (but this assumes you have 2 years prior to entry into IE) which means your closer to 6 years. Of course there are always exceptions, but those generally happen under the 'work in' category. So if you go back to the UK do your SCD then do induction and then stick around for 4 more years and get some kind of leadership position even if its only assistant or deputy lead than you can market that to IE. The advantage of that route is you dont have to stay at the same DS if the opportunity avails itself. So many HOS are becoming Ex.HOSs that its creating easier entry into HOS and Lead.
In regards to the matters youre concerned about, IE is equally dead end. Youre comparing mobility (in IE) to staying put where you are now at your Uni (in ESOL). If we compare advancement and growth opportunities for SK ESOL and SK IE, they are about the same. SK doesnt have a very big second tier and it will take the better part of a decade and luck getting into a tier 1 IS, otherwise your comparing third tier ISs to ESs and they arent that different. If you were younger and only had a couple years experience then going into IE is a no brainier, but your near the top of your game in ESOL and a lot closer to leadership in ESOL than you are in IE where you will be starting over. Considering that work-life balance is important to you your going to have to put in a lot of work and time just to stand out in DE and then in IE and it might not pay off. At least where you are you can realistically work on starting your own ES.
Well if your the "right" kind of person sure its possible, but every LEA posts everything for UCAS since it doesnt hurt them in any way to do so. There is also no motivation for them to remove or update the vacancies. My experience is that candidates who applied for that were than later told that they could do SCD but it wouldnt be salaried.
Yes they fell by about a third but its the sciences and maths that got hurt, there really isnt any high demand for primary, many DSs are happy appointing unqualified DTs at the lowest salary.
You can try, it doesnt hurt but be prepared.
There are 3 general avenues into leadership:
1) Grow In: You start at an IS as an IT, you work well with leadership, parents and ownership, and then when there is an opening you get the job because ownership trusts you and leadership and parents like you. This pathway is faster at lower tier ISs, where there is a lot of turnover and longevity often means your only one of the few staff to renew.
2) Work In: You get a M.Ed in Ed.Ld, you add a credential, you build some leadership or management experience and you work your way up into leadership. This may and often requires some work in DE. This is the pathway that accounts for the majority of leadership. Candidates were leadership in DE, and they were hired as leadership in IE.
3) Edge In: You make friends and build a network, maybe you marry into, but someone in ownership likes you and gives you the job, or someone in leadership helps you get into the job. This is the least common path into leadership.
If you move into IE you will be starting over, the last 10 years will mean nothing. Where you are now while you arent likely to go much higher in your Uni, your certainly candidate material for Center Manager, Academic Manager or DOS at a Hagwon . Its also much easier and less costly to start your own ES. Compared to IE you will never own your own IS and it will be 5+ years before you can look at Leadership in IE. Usually if your growing into an ISs leadership its around 4 years (end of your second contract) that you can make that pitch (but this assumes you have 2 years prior to entry into IE) which means your closer to 6 years. Of course there are always exceptions, but those generally happen under the 'work in' category. So if you go back to the UK do your SCD then do induction and then stick around for 4 more years and get some kind of leadership position even if its only assistant or deputy lead than you can market that to IE. The advantage of that route is you dont have to stay at the same DS if the opportunity avails itself. So many HOS are becoming Ex.HOSs that its creating easier entry into HOS and Lead.
In regards to the matters youre concerned about, IE is equally dead end. Youre comparing mobility (in IE) to staying put where you are now at your Uni (in ESOL). If we compare advancement and growth opportunities for SK ESOL and SK IE, they are about the same. SK doesnt have a very big second tier and it will take the better part of a decade and luck getting into a tier 1 IS, otherwise your comparing third tier ISs to ESs and they arent that different. If you were younger and only had a couple years experience then going into IE is a no brainier, but your near the top of your game in ESOL and a lot closer to leadership in ESOL than you are in IE where you will be starting over. Considering that work-life balance is important to you your going to have to put in a lot of work and time just to stand out in DE and then in IE and it might not pay off. At least where you are you can realistically work on starting your own ES.