Hi,
My background: Career change to become a teacher 5 years ago. Have 3 years full-time teaching at IS - 2 of the years at a top-tier WASC-accredited K-12 school, 1 year at IB World secondary school. Have bachelor degree in math/CS & master degree in business from top-tier US universities. US citizen.
Currently living in HK, not working this school year. Want to get credentialed b/c several IS in HK won't consider me since I'm not credentialed even if I am highly qualified. And even substitute teachers need to be qualified (I think gov't requirement).
Read a lot thru this forum about different options & searching online, trying to get clarification (& some advice) as to what might work for my situation.
Main goal: Find a credential program where credential can be used worldwide (or will be accepted to transfer) that is some combo as cheap (since some programs are twice the price of others), shortest period of time, while living in HK (can't move to another city/country due to family). And even better to start anytime since I not working this school year.
1) 2 universities in HK have PDGE program. Can this credentialed be used worldwide? Can this credential be used to get transfer to a US equivalent (which based on the forum, the ideal is HI I think)?
2) I noticed that Teach Now can begin any time of the year (vs traditional school year starting in Sept). The only thing in my current situation is that I need to be currently teaching (since I need the 3 months of student teaching & a IS to be willing to mentor), correct? If I did have a full-time job, would those teaching hours count towards student teaching? Or the issue is the IS has to assign someone to observe me teaching to be count as student teaching?
3) For Teach Ready, it isn't clear to me where the student teaching is to be done. It almost sounds like I could do this program while not employed at a school or I misread? I see in the forums, it is mentioned 1 disadvantage is I need to fly to Florida for a week (which wouldn't bother me as much since I visit the US at least once a year). But it isn't clear to me (based on their website) what happens during that week as it almost sounds like you do your student teaching experience & take FL tests during that week? So I don't need to do student teaching experience at a school?
4) I don't know much about UK system, but seems PGCEi might works for my situation. The most common unis to take this program from Nottingham or Sunderland? Do these program start any time of the year or only in the fall? Does anyone know if PGCEi is enough to be considered a teaching credential outside the UK?
Or any programs I should consider in my current situation?
Or is there any US state to which I can obtain a credential now based on my background?
Thanks in advance for any feedback/advice!
Feedback on obtaining credentials
Response
In HK you get a PGDE (which is a qualification) and then apply for registration with the MOE, this registration is your professional educator credential, and yes it would be accepted globally. You could also use it to apply for a US credential, but not directly for QTS. You could get the US credential using the HK credential and then use that to apply for QTS directly.
HI is the best option using the HK credential. Assuming HI accepts your three years of experience, you would receive the standard certificate, and would receive endorsements in Maths, and Business. HI doesnt have a ICT endorsement, they may give you Industrial and Engineering Technology. There is no CRB requirement and no testing requirement for those endorsements. You could then add ESOL by taking two PRAXIS exams and apply for the CA CLEAR credential after taking another exam.
The deciding factor for ACP IE programs is what access to a classroom you have for field experience. Teach Now is a 3 month field experience, which is a hard sell to an IS if you dont already have an appointment. Teach Ready requires only a 5 day field experience, its a much easier sell to an IS to give you a classroom for 5 days as a guest/visiting IT. The PGCEi is entirely an academic qualification, there is no field work requirement, however it doesnt directly lead to QTS, you would need to apply to standardize it by applying for a US credential, and then use that to apply for QTS. Many lower tier ISs accept a PGCEi as a working credential, however given the ISs in HK that you are interested in, they will want full QTS.
No you can not use prior experience to fulfill the field experience requirement. You can start the field experience at anytime once you are accepted into the program. For teach Ready the 5 day field experience is a Capstone and needs to be completed towards the end of the program.
The program will work with your cooperating IS to assign you a mentor and an evaluator (who could be the same person).
The Teach Ready programs field experience is 5 days its a culminating activity at the end of a number of observations and other non-teaching activities. At the end of the program you run the class for 5 days. You do not need to be employed by the IS, but you do need a cooperating IS to give you access to a classroom and students.
Yes you would need to travel to FL to take the FTCE, which is the licensing exam in FL. You would need to take multiple exams to add business, maths, and ICT.
PGCEi programs are run in a cohort model. The Nottingham program meets in different cities at different times, and this seminar is required as the start of the program. The Sunderland model starts in the fall of every year. There is an upcoming Nottingham cohort for November in both BKK and KL, they do offer a cohort in HK, but it hasnt been scheduled as of yet. Once you attend the seminar the rest of the course can be completed anywhere. Keele also offers a PGCEi, it starts in August of each year and requires attendance at the Uni Campus for a week, in addition there is a 60 day field experience requirement, and like the other programs it does not confer QTS. Many lower tier ISs accept a PGCEi as a working credential, however given the ISs in HK that you are interested in, they will likely want full QTS. The QTS issue would really only be a limiting factor when approaching upper tier BSs.
The easiest route for you now would be to apply for a UT (Utah) level 1 APT credential. There is no EPP/ITT program completion requirement. You would need to complete the PRAXIS exam (which can be done in HK) for one of your teaching endorsements. The limitations are that you would only be able to apply for one endorsement area, and while the credential is renewable every three years, there are some transfer and reciprocity issues. You could then use the UT credential to apply for QTS, and hopefully before the TCL realizes the UT credential is not based on any type of professional education preparation. Once you have QTS you can either drop the UT credential by letting it expire or renew it.
The other option is to apply for a CT (Connecticut) initial license, based on the experience route. You would have to complete the PRAXIS exams of course, but you could add all of your endorsements. You could only renew this license 5 times for a total of 18 years, but you could use it to apply for QTS. You could then move this license to Texas and standardize it into a professional credential and then use the Texas credential to apply for the CA CLEAR credential after adding an ESOL endorsement.
The cheapest and fastest route is the UT -> QTS route. Its an exam that costs $150 and a $40 application fee for the UT credential (plus the CRB, as you will need to have your prints rolled). QTS is free and an online application. You could have this done by the Winter Holiday. The PRAXIS exam takes half a day, the CRB (fingerprints) takes half a day and the rest of the time is waiting.
HI is the best option using the HK credential. Assuming HI accepts your three years of experience, you would receive the standard certificate, and would receive endorsements in Maths, and Business. HI doesnt have a ICT endorsement, they may give you Industrial and Engineering Technology. There is no CRB requirement and no testing requirement for those endorsements. You could then add ESOL by taking two PRAXIS exams and apply for the CA CLEAR credential after taking another exam.
The deciding factor for ACP IE programs is what access to a classroom you have for field experience. Teach Now is a 3 month field experience, which is a hard sell to an IS if you dont already have an appointment. Teach Ready requires only a 5 day field experience, its a much easier sell to an IS to give you a classroom for 5 days as a guest/visiting IT. The PGCEi is entirely an academic qualification, there is no field work requirement, however it doesnt directly lead to QTS, you would need to apply to standardize it by applying for a US credential, and then use that to apply for QTS. Many lower tier ISs accept a PGCEi as a working credential, however given the ISs in HK that you are interested in, they will want full QTS.
No you can not use prior experience to fulfill the field experience requirement. You can start the field experience at anytime once you are accepted into the program. For teach Ready the 5 day field experience is a Capstone and needs to be completed towards the end of the program.
The program will work with your cooperating IS to assign you a mentor and an evaluator (who could be the same person).
The Teach Ready programs field experience is 5 days its a culminating activity at the end of a number of observations and other non-teaching activities. At the end of the program you run the class for 5 days. You do not need to be employed by the IS, but you do need a cooperating IS to give you access to a classroom and students.
Yes you would need to travel to FL to take the FTCE, which is the licensing exam in FL. You would need to take multiple exams to add business, maths, and ICT.
PGCEi programs are run in a cohort model. The Nottingham program meets in different cities at different times, and this seminar is required as the start of the program. The Sunderland model starts in the fall of every year. There is an upcoming Nottingham cohort for November in both BKK and KL, they do offer a cohort in HK, but it hasnt been scheduled as of yet. Once you attend the seminar the rest of the course can be completed anywhere. Keele also offers a PGCEi, it starts in August of each year and requires attendance at the Uni Campus for a week, in addition there is a 60 day field experience requirement, and like the other programs it does not confer QTS. Many lower tier ISs accept a PGCEi as a working credential, however given the ISs in HK that you are interested in, they will likely want full QTS. The QTS issue would really only be a limiting factor when approaching upper tier BSs.
The easiest route for you now would be to apply for a UT (Utah) level 1 APT credential. There is no EPP/ITT program completion requirement. You would need to complete the PRAXIS exam (which can be done in HK) for one of your teaching endorsements. The limitations are that you would only be able to apply for one endorsement area, and while the credential is renewable every three years, there are some transfer and reciprocity issues. You could then use the UT credential to apply for QTS, and hopefully before the TCL realizes the UT credential is not based on any type of professional education preparation. Once you have QTS you can either drop the UT credential by letting it expire or renew it.
The other option is to apply for a CT (Connecticut) initial license, based on the experience route. You would have to complete the PRAXIS exams of course, but you could add all of your endorsements. You could only renew this license 5 times for a total of 18 years, but you could use it to apply for QTS. You could then move this license to Texas and standardize it into a professional credential and then use the Texas credential to apply for the CA CLEAR credential after adding an ESOL endorsement.
The cheapest and fastest route is the UT -> QTS route. Its an exam that costs $150 and a $40 application fee for the UT credential (plus the CRB, as you will need to have your prints rolled). QTS is free and an online application. You could have this done by the Winter Holiday. The PRAXIS exam takes half a day, the CRB (fingerprints) takes half a day and the rest of the time is waiting.
Re: Feedback on obtaining credentials
Thank you for all of this information & being thorough with the answers!
A couple of follow-up questions:
1) What do BSs mean? (Couldn't find this acronym in other posts for its meaning)
2) Based on what you wrote, I assume I can't use UT to register with HK MOE? I need QTC to register with HK MOE?
3) Long-term, I plan to settle down in CA. If I continue teaching, I probably will just teach at independent/private schools. Would the QTS be enough to list as teaching credentials on my resume? Or I should use that to get a US credential (which sounds like I could go QTC->HI + ESOL/2 PRAXIS exams + another exam-> CA CLEAR or a different route?)? Knowing this, do you still recommend the UT->QTC route to start off with?
4) Do you know for sure that TCL does not realize yet that UT is not based on any type of professional education preparation? Or unclear since don't know of anyone who has used UT to apply for QTS recently? If TCL/QTS rejects the UT credential, at least the math PRAXIS test I take could be used towards CT initial license? Btw, how much is it to get the CT license?
Side questions that you might not be able to answer but thought I'd ask just in case. No worries if no clue on these questions.
1) How hard (or easy) are these PRAXIS tests? I would take the math one for UT, but there are some math levels I haven't used in a long while (since I haven't taught those levels) so would need to refresh my memory. But just wondering how much time to spend to refresh/review to pass :p
2) For the CRB fingerprints, i get my prints rolled in HK & then mail that card back to the US? (I assume there is no LiveScan in HK?) I actually recently (in the last 12 months) did an FBI fingerprint background check when I was in the UK last year. Could I use that or still need to do prints anyway since I need a UT background check too?
Thanks again for your advice!
A couple of follow-up questions:
1) What do BSs mean? (Couldn't find this acronym in other posts for its meaning)
2) Based on what you wrote, I assume I can't use UT to register with HK MOE? I need QTC to register with HK MOE?
3) Long-term, I plan to settle down in CA. If I continue teaching, I probably will just teach at independent/private schools. Would the QTS be enough to list as teaching credentials on my resume? Or I should use that to get a US credential (which sounds like I could go QTC->HI + ESOL/2 PRAXIS exams + another exam-> CA CLEAR or a different route?)? Knowing this, do you still recommend the UT->QTC route to start off with?
4) Do you know for sure that TCL does not realize yet that UT is not based on any type of professional education preparation? Or unclear since don't know of anyone who has used UT to apply for QTS recently? If TCL/QTS rejects the UT credential, at least the math PRAXIS test I take could be used towards CT initial license? Btw, how much is it to get the CT license?
Side questions that you might not be able to answer but thought I'd ask just in case. No worries if no clue on these questions.
1) How hard (or easy) are these PRAXIS tests? I would take the math one for UT, but there are some math levels I haven't used in a long while (since I haven't taught those levels) so would need to refresh my memory. But just wondering how much time to spend to refresh/review to pass :p
2) For the CRB fingerprints, i get my prints rolled in HK & then mail that card back to the US? (I assume there is no LiveScan in HK?) I actually recently (in the last 12 months) did an FBI fingerprint background check when I was in the UK last year. Could I use that or still need to do prints anyway since I need a UT background check too?
Thanks again for your advice!
Reply
@sugarhuny
1) BS = British School
2) You dont need QTS to obtain HK registration, a US credential that included an EPP/ITT program would be accepted for registration, but HK isnt going to accept the UT APT credential. Foreign credentials are reviewed by a professional evaluation committee, for each applicant. Its going to take the evaluator around 4 minutes (7 if they havent had their iced coffee yet) to conclude you havent actually completed any professional educator training or preparation. HK requires foreign credentials to be at least equivalent of HK credentialing requirements to be accepted. In HK that standard is a PGDE, and the UT APT credential has zero, you took an exam, they arent going to adjudicate that as equivalent to a year of academic and professional training.
QTS is a grey area. The evaluator is going to look at your transcripts for a PGCE and not find one. So then how did you get QTS? Theres no employment history in a BS so you couldnt have done school direct. That leaves assessment only. Its a coin flip with a weighted coin. Its possible the evaluator will just accept the QTS certificate on its face, and move on with the application, but that would be a very fortunate day for you, because HK officials tend to be very, very thorough, and its not that deep a puzzle to conclude that you got QTS based on the UT APT credential. It would probably be a very exciting day, with a couple of meetings if discovered. Your QTS is valid and acceptable, and wasnt issued in error, it was issued under rules published by the TCL at the time, its a valid, and recognized credential as defined by the HK MOE. The UT credential doesnt meet the HK MOE standards, but was used to obtain QTS.
Id avoid the issue and just submit the QTS credential by itself. You could, to be truthful request the UT credential be inactivated by voluntary surrender, after you obtain QTS, that way you can honestly claim you hold no other credentials.
3) Sure QTS is a valid professional educator credential globally. You will likely find some CA private/independent DSs that will want a CA credential, but there will be many with no such requirement.
Yes, you could go PRAXIS -> UT -> QTS -> PRAXIS ->HI -> CA. Using the UT credential to get QTS, and then doing the NACES review and using the QTS to get HI, and then the HI credential to add the ESOL endorsement and then apply for the CA CLEAR credential, I do not know if that would work, mainly because the UT credential is so new (July 2016). It would be a really lite NACES evaluation as all they would be doing is validating QTS, there would be no foreign transcripts, so again how did you get QTS? School Direct and Assessment only pathways are valid, and NACES isnt in the investigation business they just provide translations and interpretations. HI would very likely accept it, their systems process is very check list based (is the credential a professional educator credential = YES -> STOP, next item).
I would still recommend UT -> QTS, its a low bar to entry, the entire process will cost you 2 days and about USD$200. There is no limitation to the routes you can pursue to various credentialing pathways, you can get the UT credential and then get a PGDE.
4) No I dont know for sure, there hasnt been any publication and I havent had any indications that suggest otherwise. The UT credential is a very new one (July 2016), but it doesnt mean there isnt something happening.
Yes, you can use the PRAXIS towards the CT credential, but if thats the option you want to follow, you can just start with that credential.
The CT credential costs USD$200, with USD$50 payed upfront and is non-refundable.
A) I found the PRAXIS exams easy, I took all of the exams cold, with no more preparation than the sample questions in the exam study guide. I do know candidates who failed multiple times and gave up (one biology DT attempted the chemistry exam 6 times over two years, never passed and gave up).
B) Yes, when you register online for the UT application, they wills end you 2 specific finger print cards, you take these to the HKP foreign section, and they roll your prints, and then you send them back to the States. Send them back in a photo mailer or box, bending and folding can effect the prints, making them unreadable. There is no live Scan. Occasionally you can get the embassy/consulate to roll your prints, the most accepted reason is for adoption.
No your prior CRB is not acceptable.
1) BS = British School
2) You dont need QTS to obtain HK registration, a US credential that included an EPP/ITT program would be accepted for registration, but HK isnt going to accept the UT APT credential. Foreign credentials are reviewed by a professional evaluation committee, for each applicant. Its going to take the evaluator around 4 minutes (7 if they havent had their iced coffee yet) to conclude you havent actually completed any professional educator training or preparation. HK requires foreign credentials to be at least equivalent of HK credentialing requirements to be accepted. In HK that standard is a PGDE, and the UT APT credential has zero, you took an exam, they arent going to adjudicate that as equivalent to a year of academic and professional training.
QTS is a grey area. The evaluator is going to look at your transcripts for a PGCE and not find one. So then how did you get QTS? Theres no employment history in a BS so you couldnt have done school direct. That leaves assessment only. Its a coin flip with a weighted coin. Its possible the evaluator will just accept the QTS certificate on its face, and move on with the application, but that would be a very fortunate day for you, because HK officials tend to be very, very thorough, and its not that deep a puzzle to conclude that you got QTS based on the UT APT credential. It would probably be a very exciting day, with a couple of meetings if discovered. Your QTS is valid and acceptable, and wasnt issued in error, it was issued under rules published by the TCL at the time, its a valid, and recognized credential as defined by the HK MOE. The UT credential doesnt meet the HK MOE standards, but was used to obtain QTS.
Id avoid the issue and just submit the QTS credential by itself. You could, to be truthful request the UT credential be inactivated by voluntary surrender, after you obtain QTS, that way you can honestly claim you hold no other credentials.
3) Sure QTS is a valid professional educator credential globally. You will likely find some CA private/independent DSs that will want a CA credential, but there will be many with no such requirement.
Yes, you could go PRAXIS -> UT -> QTS -> PRAXIS ->HI -> CA. Using the UT credential to get QTS, and then doing the NACES review and using the QTS to get HI, and then the HI credential to add the ESOL endorsement and then apply for the CA CLEAR credential, I do not know if that would work, mainly because the UT credential is so new (July 2016). It would be a really lite NACES evaluation as all they would be doing is validating QTS, there would be no foreign transcripts, so again how did you get QTS? School Direct and Assessment only pathways are valid, and NACES isnt in the investigation business they just provide translations and interpretations. HI would very likely accept it, their systems process is very check list based (is the credential a professional educator credential = YES -> STOP, next item).
I would still recommend UT -> QTS, its a low bar to entry, the entire process will cost you 2 days and about USD$200. There is no limitation to the routes you can pursue to various credentialing pathways, you can get the UT credential and then get a PGDE.
4) No I dont know for sure, there hasnt been any publication and I havent had any indications that suggest otherwise. The UT credential is a very new one (July 2016), but it doesnt mean there isnt something happening.
Yes, you can use the PRAXIS towards the CT credential, but if thats the option you want to follow, you can just start with that credential.
The CT credential costs USD$200, with USD$50 payed upfront and is non-refundable.
A) I found the PRAXIS exams easy, I took all of the exams cold, with no more preparation than the sample questions in the exam study guide. I do know candidates who failed multiple times and gave up (one biology DT attempted the chemistry exam 6 times over two years, never passed and gave up).
B) Yes, when you register online for the UT application, they wills end you 2 specific finger print cards, you take these to the HKP foreign section, and they roll your prints, and then you send them back to the States. Send them back in a photo mailer or box, bending and folding can effect the prints, making them unreadable. There is no live Scan. Occasionally you can get the embassy/consulate to roll your prints, the most accepted reason is for adoption.
No your prior CRB is not acceptable.
Re: Feedback on obtaining credentials
@psyguy
1) So if I submit just QTS (and not UT APT) to HK MOE to apply as a Registered Teacher, this will be enough to get that certificate? With just the QTS, they won't be looking for how I obtained that? Slightly confused since you mentioned they would look at employment history/PGCE to see how I obtained a QTS.
2) I noticed PRAXIS can send results up to 4 states for free when I first register. Besides CT & UT, any other states you recommend I submit for now since they are valid for a year just in case?
Thanks again.
1) So if I submit just QTS (and not UT APT) to HK MOE to apply as a Registered Teacher, this will be enough to get that certificate? With just the QTS, they won't be looking for how I obtained that? Slightly confused since you mentioned they would look at employment history/PGCE to see how I obtained a QTS.
2) I noticed PRAXIS can send results up to 4 states for free when I first register. Besides CT & UT, any other states you recommend I submit for now since they are valid for a year just in case?
Thanks again.
Reply
@sugarhuny
1) Yes, QTs is the professional educator credential in the UK. They may look deeper they may not. There are 4 ways of obtaining QTS in England:
A) Academic Routes: These include getting an undergraduate B.Ed or getting a PGCE (Post Graduate Certificate of Education). The PGCE is a one year academic program. There are also Masters programs that award QTS, though they are longer than PGCE programs.
B) School Direct: These are essentially apprenticeship programs. There are various forms that are essentially distinguished by cost. Some of them you work as a volunteer, some you pay fees, and some you earn a salary.
C) Assessment Only: This is a portfolio route available to experienced DTs/ITs.
D) Mutual Recognition: This is reciprocity of foreign educator credentials.
There are some special routes that include troops to teachers, routes for Ph.Ds, etc but the 4 above tend to be the common routes.
After you complete your EPP/ITT program you get NQT status, to get full QTS you need to complete induction, which is an additional year of teaching at the end of which you are evaluated against the teacher training standards. Two issues of note with induction: 1) You only need to complete it if you want to work in a public/maintained DS. An IS/DS can require full QTS as their policy or preference, but its not a regulatory requirement. 2) You only get one attempt at induction, if you are unsuccessful you dont lose your NQT QTS but you can never teach in a public/maintained DS in England.
The academic routes would all generate transcripts that would be absent in your HK application. Its possible (though I dont know how) that you could have completed a PGCE or its course requirements as part of an exchange program or study abroad.
The school direct routes offer better options, while School Direct salaried would result in a work history, SCITT and School Direct fees are essentially unsalaried and you dont work for those DSs, so they wouldnt exactly generate a work history or transcripts.
Assessment only is an option as well, most of the providers are Unis, but they dont generate transcripts.
So its possible to have completed a QTS qualifying program and not have produced either a transcript or a reportable work history, but its less common. Combine that with your nationality/passport and again, weighted coin flip 60/40 they just accept the QTS certificate alone. May not be a problem, could be a problem.
2) Hawaii and the District of Columbia
1) Yes, QTs is the professional educator credential in the UK. They may look deeper they may not. There are 4 ways of obtaining QTS in England:
A) Academic Routes: These include getting an undergraduate B.Ed or getting a PGCE (Post Graduate Certificate of Education). The PGCE is a one year academic program. There are also Masters programs that award QTS, though they are longer than PGCE programs.
B) School Direct: These are essentially apprenticeship programs. There are various forms that are essentially distinguished by cost. Some of them you work as a volunteer, some you pay fees, and some you earn a salary.
C) Assessment Only: This is a portfolio route available to experienced DTs/ITs.
D) Mutual Recognition: This is reciprocity of foreign educator credentials.
There are some special routes that include troops to teachers, routes for Ph.Ds, etc but the 4 above tend to be the common routes.
After you complete your EPP/ITT program you get NQT status, to get full QTS you need to complete induction, which is an additional year of teaching at the end of which you are evaluated against the teacher training standards. Two issues of note with induction: 1) You only need to complete it if you want to work in a public/maintained DS. An IS/DS can require full QTS as their policy or preference, but its not a regulatory requirement. 2) You only get one attempt at induction, if you are unsuccessful you dont lose your NQT QTS but you can never teach in a public/maintained DS in England.
The academic routes would all generate transcripts that would be absent in your HK application. Its possible (though I dont know how) that you could have completed a PGCE or its course requirements as part of an exchange program or study abroad.
The school direct routes offer better options, while School Direct salaried would result in a work history, SCITT and School Direct fees are essentially unsalaried and you dont work for those DSs, so they wouldnt exactly generate a work history or transcripts.
Assessment only is an option as well, most of the providers are Unis, but they dont generate transcripts.
So its possible to have completed a QTS qualifying program and not have produced either a transcript or a reportable work history, but its less common. Combine that with your nationality/passport and again, weighted coin flip 60/40 they just accept the QTS certificate alone. May not be a problem, could be a problem.
2) Hawaii and the District of Columbia