Could use some help

[suuateach]

Hi there, I know that there are lots of threads like this, and I have read a bunch of them in my research but didn't find anything with similar to my situation so would appreciate some advice.

I am an American with a BA in History, California and Oregon single subject social studies teaching credentials with English learner authorizations and will have a TEFL certificate by this August. I did my student teaching at a high school in San Diego and am currently teaching English in Thailand for a year. My dream job is to teach history at an international school so what I am looking for is the best way to get there.

I know that most schools want 2 years of experience, does my ESL experience this year count? I guess my student teaching doesn't count does it? Are there any schools that would hire me with the experience I have? If I teach ESL abroad for a few more years will that help me at all in getting a history job, or is pretty much my only bet to try and find a job in America and teach there for a few years before going back overseas?

Thanks a lot for any help!
Kevin

[PsyGuy]

ESL and student teaching don't count. If you want to teach history, and social studies, you need to STOP teaching ESL. If you want to teach at an IS, you need to start at the bottom with the 3rd or 2nd tier schools and work your way up. ESL pays the bills, and that's it. Many schools state right on their applications, that ESL experience doesn't count, nor does anything prior to certification.

The one exception to that is if your applying to be an ESL teacher at a "real" IS and your previous, post certification ESL teaching was at a "real" IS.

[suuateach]

Thanks for the reply, so I could get a job at a lower level IS without any recognized teaching experience?

[PsyGuy]

Maybe, Especially at the 3rd tier school. Normally the 2nd tier schools want at least 2 years experience, and the elite schools (at the top of the tier 1 schools) want 5 years experience (with 2-5 years of it at an IS).
That said their are always stories and exceptions. Social studies isnt a high needs field though, and youd have to be willing to go to some undesirable places to get your first 2 years of experience if you went to a 3rd tier school. Still the 3rd tier schools arent any worse then your typical american public school.

Here is my dilemma: I dont want to say youd have even a good chance of getting a position at an IS. You have a pretty low needs certificate, no advance degree, and no experience period. Thats a whole lot of, not much. The only way to make that resume worse, is if you werent certified at all. What I do KNOW, is that ESL/LS experience, is worth nothing, and isnt going to get you anywhere.

[suuateach]

That's what I was afraid of, looks like my best best is to head back to America and hopefully find a job, work for a few years, get my masters and then head back out again.

Thanks!

[markholmes]

I got a job in elementary with no experience other than ESL (four years in Asia) and two years subbing.

I don't know if my school would be counted as 3rd or 2nd tier, but it functions as a school in my home country would, other than there is minimal learning support, which they could really do with. Our salary is very good, and it's up there with some considered 2nd and 1st tier schools.

I think one of the things that helped us was that we are teaching couple (both elementary) in our late 30s / early 40s and we had both had successful careers in other fields. We had had lots of life experience, including living overseas

Life experience, ESL experience and time overseas definitely helped, but yes, a first 1st school wouldn't have looked at us.

[PsyGuy]

I didnt say head back to america. as I wrote there is always a story and exceptions. I tell candidates "There is a position for everyone, if you will accept anything". I dont want to sounds all rainbows and sunshine without giving you the the whole serving of reality. Search has about 700 schools listed, but there are 3324 IB schools world wide and include a whole bunch of local and municipal schools. If your willing to go anywhere, and get a package thats not much better then ESL there is a school for you to build experience at. A good place to start is networking in Thailand. You might be hired on a "local" package but again if you see it as a resume builder, then any real school teaching position gets you the 2 years experience.

Have you been to the states lately, teaching jobs, especially in history and social studies are VERY rare, you could be waiting 5 years before getting a position at a charter school as a history teacher???

[gr8teach]

Listen, if your great and I mean know your stuff, have glowing references and have ample documentation to prove your great then you can get a very good job. Interviews are salesmanship. What are your strengths? Play to them. Are you a effective practitioner who is aware of modern best practices? Can you give concrete examples of how those practices can be put into effect? If not start reading up...

Taking a job at a tier two or three could be your ticket o the prime time. Providing you shine in those lower schools. (Don't fall in with the just there for the pay check crowd.) If you want to go tier 1 or higher then act it, go the extra mile despite whatever your school's culture is. After all kids are kids, we can't rank their needs on some type of tier system. Regardless they deserve your best. So just do your damn best it'll be best for them and your career.

[PsyGuy]

No amount of salesmanship can make an 84' Pinto, anything but an 84' Pinto. You have to get through the screening before you get into the actual interview. You cant talk your way into having experience or a job, if never given the opportunity. Im not saying there arent people who have done it. But having come back from the Sydney fair and doing a candidate search through 600+ applications for 2 positions. You would have never made it to the finalists group.

Lets be honest, the OP wants an honest realistic assessment of their hiring probability, not false hope, or an ego boost. The agencies like Search and ISS do enough of that. They accept these candidates that for the most part arent going to get hired. telling the OP he has a chance is like saying you "have a chance" to get a torpedo into an exhaust duct 2 meters wide on the Death Star" that only works 1) in the movies, and 2) if you have the force on your side.

[gr8teach]

As mentioned previously there are literally thousands of tier two or more likely tier three international schools. Step up to the plate and impress there for two years. That was my main point and frankly meeting the right people and marketing your self DOES make a difference. I'm not talking about fancy resumes I'm talking about finding and meeting the right people, knowing your stuff and networking at workshops and conferences.

International teaching (profit or nonprofit) is run much more like a business than public schools. If a hot shot lawyer can get jobs at the top firms why can't great young/ inexperienced teacher... (I'm not talking about having just any credentials but there's no harm in working the room)

In no way I'm a suggesting its the norm but its not unrealistic--

Best bet, put your best foot forward at one of the numerous tier threes.

[suuateach]

I certainly know how bad things are in America, that's why I am teaching in Thailand now! Is there a good place to look that has the highest concentration of tier 3 schools? Certainly doesn't sound like it is worth paying for Search, I have been looking at Dave's ESL job list, any other good sites? At this point I could care less about the salary, as long as I can survive, I just want to teach history.

I found out early on that it is defiantly who you know, so I will take your advice to heart and start beating the pavement here in Thailand and see if anything turns up.

Thanks a lot