Top international schools
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steve
Top international schools
If you were to list your top 5-10 international schools by savings potential and quality of life, which would they be and why?
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Vince
Great topic!
This topic is sure to create controversy and bruise some egos!
I think a better way to do this would be to list the top 3-5 schools by region, since most Asian schools, for example, will pay more than most South American schools. And "quality of life" is really a subjective phrase- I.e., Some people are perfectly content in a Muslim society whereas others find it difficult. Some people love the hustle and bustle of a major capital city while others prefer the greenery of the countryside.
But I'll give it a stab here and I'll start with the Asia. This is just my opinion, by the way, and I certainly do not have intimate knowledge of many schools.
Actually, I'll list six in Asia. In no particular order...
Shanghai American School
Jakarta International School
Singapore American School
American School in Japan
Taipei American School
International School of Kuala Lumpur
I think a better way to do this would be to list the top 3-5 schools by region, since most Asian schools, for example, will pay more than most South American schools. And "quality of life" is really a subjective phrase- I.e., Some people are perfectly content in a Muslim society whereas others find it difficult. Some people love the hustle and bustle of a major capital city while others prefer the greenery of the countryside.
But I'll give it a stab here and I'll start with the Asia. This is just my opinion, by the way, and I certainly do not have intimate knowledge of many schools.
Actually, I'll list six in Asia. In no particular order...
Shanghai American School
Jakarta International School
Singapore American School
American School in Japan
Taipei American School
International School of Kuala Lumpur
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Bill
Best schools ever
I think there were a number of American/Indernational Saudi Arabian schools in the 70's that made a lot of astonished teachers wealthy. Now the same schools pay much less than half the pay in real terms and ask more from the teachers. Still they are in the top 75%ile
If you can avoid extravagances for a couple of years, there are a couple of schools in Japan and my personal favorite Taipei American School, where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel after only a few years of belt tightening.... That is if you don't care to work to 70 or 75 years of age.
My own case was working six years from early to mid 90's at Taipei American School where I saved nearly 400K by living with room mates and not spending excessively in Taiwan where things were quite expensive.
If you can avoid extravagances for a couple of years, there are a couple of schools in Japan and my personal favorite Taipei American School, where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel after only a few years of belt tightening.... That is if you don't care to work to 70 or 75 years of age.
My own case was working six years from early to mid 90's at Taipei American School where I saved nearly 400K by living with room mates and not spending excessively in Taiwan where things were quite expensive.
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chinagirl
what feeds your soul?
If money feeds your soul then I would agree that many of the schools listed above would "satisfy" you. I am currently working at the Shanghai American School. If I wanted to "tighten my belt" I could save 20-30,000 dollars per year or more. I have saved a lot and I have traveled a lot. SAS is an excellent school and teachers work their bums off. Professionally, I have learned a lot and I value that a great deal. My colleagues are very professional and dedicated. The stress level is quite high as are the expectations. Nothing in life is free and you always give up something to get. If you love the urban life, excellent housing, plenty of supplies, professional development opportunities, and are interested in China this could be the school for you. If you love to climb a mountain on the weekend or sleep to the sound of the ocean at night, this is not the place for you. It is a bit hard to get out of the city for short sojourns. The pollution is a concern as is traffic. I think that it is hard to speak about ?quality of life" since so many people value different things. I arrived here after three other overseas posts and thought that I had arrived at the top, and maybe I have. Now that I am here do I want it? That is the question I ask myself. Money and packages seem to drive so many of us. At the end of the day, what feeds your soul? A question worth asking when looking for the "best schools". Suerte.
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Ichiro
I have to agree that what makes a "top" international school varies widely. If money is what you want, there are places to go, and I know in some Asian schools, a couple can work for a few years and go home and pay cash for a house.
I'm in Vietnam now making a little more than half what I did in Japan, though it feels very similar due to cost of living differences. One can potentially live on 200 dollars a month in Vietnam which would lead to an enormous savings after a couple of years--and couples, as noted, can do very well indeed.
It all depends on what you're after. I'd take a mellow school with a good package over a high pressure school with an excellent package any day.
I'm in Vietnam now making a little more than half what I did in Japan, though it feels very similar due to cost of living differences. One can potentially live on 200 dollars a month in Vietnam which would lead to an enormous savings after a couple of years--and couples, as noted, can do very well indeed.
It all depends on what you're after. I'd take a mellow school with a good package over a high pressure school with an excellent package any day.
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int'l teacher
I agree. Lower stress school+location = longer and happy life!
Your salary may be high in some schools but be aware of the cost of living. There are websites that list comparisons of a variety of items and services you purchase on a day to day basis. Do your homework if salary and savings are what drive you.
Many of the top Asian schools are in huge polluted cities. Do you cope well with traffic and congestion and it taking over an hour and a half to get to school? Do you enjoy rain and very humid weather year round? Is apartment living ideal to you? Taipei American School had a good reputation in the past but I haven't heard or read many positive comments lately. Those that are more creative in their teaching struggle to fit the mold there.
Caltex American School in Indonesia is probably one of the highest paying and has one of the top benefit packages of the international schools. If you can handle living in a remote jungle on Sumatra, living with the same people you work with and students you teach and their parents. Not for many people but some love it. However, you can only stay 5 years and it is hard to adjust to real salaries after that. Some schools are very hesitant to even consider you after teaching there because the salary adjustment is so huge even if you say it isn't an issue. Aramco Schools in Saudi are still right up there in the top salary and benefit range.
Some South American schools have decent packages and it is cheap to live there plus far less stress. Some leave the stress of the top Asian schools for North Africa or South America and love the change of pace. Used to be that Eastern European schools had good packages with saving potential but the economy there is improving quickly hence higher cost of living and much lower savings.
If the salary is high, maybe COL is too. Or perhaps it is hard to staff because of location or climate. Or it is a very stressful school. Prioritze what you want out of the experience. You didn't become an educator for the money!
Your salary may be high in some schools but be aware of the cost of living. There are websites that list comparisons of a variety of items and services you purchase on a day to day basis. Do your homework if salary and savings are what drive you.
Many of the top Asian schools are in huge polluted cities. Do you cope well with traffic and congestion and it taking over an hour and a half to get to school? Do you enjoy rain and very humid weather year round? Is apartment living ideal to you? Taipei American School had a good reputation in the past but I haven't heard or read many positive comments lately. Those that are more creative in their teaching struggle to fit the mold there.
Caltex American School in Indonesia is probably one of the highest paying and has one of the top benefit packages of the international schools. If you can handle living in a remote jungle on Sumatra, living with the same people you work with and students you teach and their parents. Not for many people but some love it. However, you can only stay 5 years and it is hard to adjust to real salaries after that. Some schools are very hesitant to even consider you after teaching there because the salary adjustment is so huge even if you say it isn't an issue. Aramco Schools in Saudi are still right up there in the top salary and benefit range.
Some South American schools have decent packages and it is cheap to live there plus far less stress. Some leave the stress of the top Asian schools for North Africa or South America and love the change of pace. Used to be that Eastern European schools had good packages with saving potential but the economy there is improving quickly hence higher cost of living and much lower savings.
If the salary is high, maybe COL is too. Or perhaps it is hard to staff because of location or climate. Or it is a very stressful school. Prioritze what you want out of the experience. You didn't become an educator for the money!
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Xela
You know what he means!
C'mon, the best schools offer what everyone wants (no particular order):
1. 25 hour teaching load in the area you are qualified and happy to teach in with no more than 1 hour of meetings per week and one PAID activity a week
2. free, posh, serviced housing near school, utils, annual travel (up front baby!)
3. helpful, caring, supportive, honest (mostly) staff and admin
4. varied, friendly, non-threatening cultural and geographical surroundings
5. excellent, updated school infrastructure, equipment and supplies
6. fair teacher evaluation aimed at improvement of staff, admin and school
7. min USD 50K, no taxes on the planet
8. at least 9 weeks summer break
9. free tuition and fees for 2 dependents with no nasty tax surprises
10. did I forget something--oh, yeeeeaaah: students who want to learn and don't treat you like their servant
Now, we all know there aint no such school in this galaxy but do you know one that gets like 7 out of 10?
Help me out, I can't think of one...5 out of 10...nope...
maybe the Middle and Far East..
1. 25 hour teaching load in the area you are qualified and happy to teach in with no more than 1 hour of meetings per week and one PAID activity a week
2. free, posh, serviced housing near school, utils, annual travel (up front baby!)
3. helpful, caring, supportive, honest (mostly) staff and admin
4. varied, friendly, non-threatening cultural and geographical surroundings
5. excellent, updated school infrastructure, equipment and supplies
6. fair teacher evaluation aimed at improvement of staff, admin and school
7. min USD 50K, no taxes on the planet
8. at least 9 weeks summer break
9. free tuition and fees for 2 dependents with no nasty tax surprises
10. did I forget something--oh, yeeeeaaah: students who want to learn and don't treat you like their servant
Now, we all know there aint no such school in this galaxy but do you know one that gets like 7 out of 10?
Help me out, I can't think of one...5 out of 10...nope...
maybe the Middle and Far East..-
been there
as long as were dreaming...
I loved the last post, great list of 10. As long as were dreaming let me add two more:
Relatively clean (non polluted country).
Your salary allows you to keep up with the parents who send there children to your school- as opposed to being the poor cousins from the other side of the track. (I think teachers in Aruba will relate to this one.)
Any one else care to list some requirements of the ideal job?
Relatively clean (non polluted country).
Your salary allows you to keep up with the parents who send there children to your school- as opposed to being the poor cousins from the other side of the track. (I think teachers in Aruba will relate to this one.)
Any one else care to list some requirements of the ideal job?
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Xela
Ta!
Thanks been there! Kinda like it myself. Maybe something ISR could pick up on for their rather 'formal' list of 10 factors in the reviews?
We could include pollution under 4 as pollution (inside and outside school) is a geographically bound threat.
What?! USD 50K TAX FREE won't do ya? Well, it fits under 7. Now, what would you consider a 'reasonable' amount?
We could include pollution under 4 as pollution (inside and outside school) is a geographically bound threat.
What?! USD 50K TAX FREE won't do ya? Well, it fits under 7. Now, what would you consider a 'reasonable' amount?
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Gato negro
Top schools in the Western Hemisphere by reputation and pay:
ECA
Graded
Monterrey
Quality of life is a different matter... depends on what you're looking for. All three are great for single males but can be rough for families, especially ECA and Graded. Gotta put in the hours at all three. Pay has gone down in recent years at ECA and Graded, but still best in the region.
Sleeper school: Puerto La Cruz
Doesn't have the reputation, but great package. Good for families, not as good for singles. The Board seems to have learned its lesson from the drug testing fiasco of several years ago. Oil school - not for everyone.
ECA
Graded
Monterrey
Quality of life is a different matter... depends on what you're looking for. All three are great for single males but can be rough for families, especially ECA and Graded. Gotta put in the hours at all three. Pay has gone down in recent years at ECA and Graded, but still best in the region.
Sleeper school: Puerto La Cruz
Doesn't have the reputation, but great package. Good for families, not as good for singles. The Board seems to have learned its lesson from the drug testing fiasco of several years ago. Oil school - not for everyone.
Quality of life depends
I have an extended experience with Jakarta International School and Singapore American School. I think quality of life depends on the individual, as some have already written. I taught 2 years at SAS, and would go back in a heart-beat. SAS did expect a lot of their teachers, but they also give a lot in return. The comp package is a good mix that allows a couple to save some while traveling.
One thing that I did notice while there was that some teaching vets from such 'hardship' places as JIS or Saudi find the teacher community less 'warm' or inclusive. Singapore is easier to exist in than places such as Jakarta, and you don't have to depend on others for assistance. I think that Singapore can be more 'distant' than some places where you develop life-long friends. Some vets didn't last very long in Singapore and talked of places where the teaching community was closer.
The friends I developed at JIS have remained close. The community and the conditions led to certain types of friendships. There was still pressure though and many teachers left because of it. The Clarence Dilts and John Magana eras were not something many would want to go through again.
Having said that, SAS and Singapore are a great place, especially for young children.
One thing that I did notice while there was that some teaching vets from such 'hardship' places as JIS or Saudi find the teacher community less 'warm' or inclusive. Singapore is easier to exist in than places such as Jakarta, and you don't have to depend on others for assistance. I think that Singapore can be more 'distant' than some places where you develop life-long friends. Some vets didn't last very long in Singapore and talked of places where the teaching community was closer.
The friends I developed at JIS have remained close. The community and the conditions led to certain types of friendships. There was still pressure though and many teachers left because of it. The Clarence Dilts and John Magana eras were not something many would want to go through again.
Having said that, SAS and Singapore are a great place, especially for young children.
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JamesBond
I find it surprising that no one mentions any European schools. Europe has the highest standard of living in the world and the schools are excellent. You don't have to live in a tiny apartment and choke on fumes from a megadropolis while counting down the days until you can get out and get somewhere nice. In the vast majority of European schools you simply have to open your front door, breathe in the clean air and soak in the sites. Money is not everything.
Why no European Schools
That is a good point. I've heard good things about Stavanger and Vienna to name a few. In both cases the impending tax hit always mitigates any good things that are mentioned.JamesBond wrote:I find it surprising that no one mentions any European schools. Europe has the highest standard of living in the world and the schools are excellent. You don't have to live in a tiny apartment and choke on fumes from a megadropolis while counting down the days until you can get out and get somewhere nice. In the vast majority of European schools you simply have to open your front door, breathe in the clean air and soak in the sites. Money is not everything.
In some of the top Asian schools you're not working in a polluted city (Singapore to name one). The housing is good (we lived in a town home), and a teaching couple can put away a good deal of money (we left after two years with approximately $65K savings- and traveled well). Top living conditions and compensation are not everything, but a well financed school makes life easier. The number of vacation destinations in Asia is countless as well.
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Sara
Positions at EU schools
Not to get too off the subject, but since we're talking about best/most desirable job postings....
Maybe I'm selling myself short, but I had kind of given up on trying to get a job in the EU (particularly Spain or Italy, where I'd most like to be) because I don't have experience at another k-12 international school outside the US and I'm not going to be able to attend any of the fairs in Europe. I'm also fairly young and don't have a master's degree. I'd gotten the impression that you aren't able to save money there, but my research is leading me to believe that many of the best international schools in terms of professionalism, quality of education and so forth, are indeed in Europe. l do have experience teaching EFL in Japan and 6th grade at an IB MYP school in the US, as well as training in the IB Curriculum. I also speak Spanish, Japanese, and some Italian. So should I still try for a job in Europe? Or with my resume, would I find myself in some really cold, off-the-beaten path locale, and would I be better off sticking to searching for a job in Latin America?
Maybe I'm selling myself short, but I had kind of given up on trying to get a job in the EU (particularly Spain or Italy, where I'd most like to be) because I don't have experience at another k-12 international school outside the US and I'm not going to be able to attend any of the fairs in Europe. I'm also fairly young and don't have a master's degree. I'd gotten the impression that you aren't able to save money there, but my research is leading me to believe that many of the best international schools in terms of professionalism, quality of education and so forth, are indeed in Europe. l do have experience teaching EFL in Japan and 6th grade at an IB MYP school in the US, as well as training in the IB Curriculum. I also speak Spanish, Japanese, and some Italian. So should I still try for a job in Europe? Or with my resume, would I find myself in some really cold, off-the-beaten path locale, and would I be better off sticking to searching for a job in Latin America?