The International Schools Review Forum

@Thames Pirate

I dont know you use it a lot how has it been working?

Yes, its the same process. ISs have been asked for re submission of documents in the past. ISs cant just usually through garbage at the MOE and expect successful results.

More than one as I stated, the BAMF provides a model and its up to individual states to interpret it.

Happy to hear you agree.

The funding isnt relevant to the scenario as included in the LWs OP.

No its not wrong. Fully independent ISs those who are exempt from various regulations can still choose to incorporate the regulations into their policies and practices.

No they arent, not in the sense that they are used in IE (or DE for that matter) no more than a GSCE or IGCSE is SLL, they are both intermediate SLL, the inclusion of intermediate makes a difference. So yes it is true.

Ah.. Those arent SLL qualifications those are intermediate SLL qualifications, intermediate makes a difference. So yes Abitur is more widely accepted than the I.B. and of the intermediate qualifications and yes the intermediate SLL qualifications would still be more widely accepted than the IBs MYP intermediate SLL certificate.

Yes I did, in my first post. "Germany has a rather rigid position on subject adjacent degrees, and foreign credentials arent as valuable, simply that credentialing requirements in the US (in general) arent as high as they are in Germany." Bureaucracy is as much a factor in that rigidity.

Again, your lack of vocabulary is showing, the word your looking for is obvious.

Your lack of subject matter expertise is what I find bothersome. More so that your response was so drastically inaccurate and impractical.

No its not double speak. Rigidity as a result of bureaucracy are the same. I am more than well aware of the definition of Amt. Many regions have an amt for a vast number of government offices.

Yes it is, being denied is one of several possible outcomes, and are so as a result of a rather rigid bureaucracy. As to the topic, Yes they simply can nullify your contract, your not eligible to hold the post. While a nullification may not survive an appeal to the Labor Board, it may very well survive such an appeal.

You seem to think your one observation of an action plan somehow characterizes all action plans and if your observation is one, than yes I have seen more than you.

Because you plagiarized, thats the correct term for one one commits plagiarism. Words are not your exclusive domain.
More TPF, I absolutely understand what a Bundesland is, your opinion I dont doesnt make it true.

Then stop talking in circles, because it doent make you right.

I use MOE, since its a more generic term that the readership and those in our profession generally understand to mean without having to look the German term up.

It would not be easier from OS, unless the applicant would be happy with a denial, and the applicant just wants to apply, maybe to get an understanding how close or far away they would be. Otherwise yes you need an appointment or offer of an appointment if you want to do more than just engage in an exercise of posting documents.

From you, its in your reference to your classic non-sense of all you need to get a job in the EU is a contract.

Yeah, there I go again (and again), The entirety of your post is nothing more than restating my position and adding your own unique brand of fluff and filler. Yes I can, but why say the same thing differently when it was right to begin with, because it was true then and is true now.

I dont think enough about you to form a position.

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> I dont know you use it a lot how has it been working?

And again . . . .

>
> Yes, its the same process. ISs have been asked for re submission of
> documents in the past. ISs cant just usually through garbage at the MOE and
> expect successful results.

It quite literally is not the same process. If it's done through a school, sure, you still have to submit your diploma and teaching license, but you don't need your Meldebescheinigung, for example, or even the application form. You do, however, have to be observed and submit written lesson plans. If you do it on your own, you obviously have to apply, may be asked for all kinds of documents such as a B1 certificate, your work permits, CV, and notarised German translations of various documents. But there is no observation or lesson plan required. The processes are different.

>
> More than one as I stated, the BAMF provides a model and its up to
> individual states to interpret it.

Uh, no. The BAMF is for migrants and refugees. The BMBF, however, doesn't set the guidelines for Anerkennung. The EU does that, with the states setting the rules. This is from the KMK (the actual place to get information):. "Für die Anerkennung von im Ausland erworbenen Lehrerberufsqualifikationen sind die Länder zuständig. Die Durchführung der Anerkennungsverfahren geschieht auf der Basis landesrechtlicher Regelungen mit denen die Länder die europäischen Richtlinien über die Anerkennung von Berufsqualifikationen umsetzen." In short, each state sets the rules in accordance with European guidelines.

Incidentally, I mentioned the KMK previously, but you must have either missed my reference or been unable to find anything about it in English.


>
> Happy to hear you agree.

Wow, I agree with my own joke!

>
> The funding isnt relevant to the scenario as included in the LWs OP.

Which is precisely what I said. You were the one attempting to turn the funding into some sort of attempt to blur the two categories of schools.

>
> No its not wrong. Fully independent ISs those who are exempt from various
> regulations can still choose to incorporate the regulations into their
> policies and practices.
>

Dude, they aren't choosing to incorporate ministry regulations into their practices. Nobody willingly says that they want to follow more rules for the sake of more rules. They are choosing to incorporate good practices into their practices. I mean, theoretically they could choose to tie themselves to ministry requirements, but no school is going to give up its autonomy, especially not without getting the money.

> No they arent, not in the sense that they are used in IE (or DE for that
> matter) no more than a GSCE or IGCSE is SLL, they are both intermediate
> SLL, the inclusion of intermediate makes a difference. So yes it is true.
>
> Ah.. Those arent SLL qualifications those are intermediate SLL
> qualifications, intermediate makes a difference. So yes Abitur is more
> widely accepted than the I.B. and of the intermediate qualifications and
> yes the intermediate SLL qualifications would still be more widely accepted
> than the IBs MYP intermediate SLL certificate.
>

You love your logical fallacies. This one is called moving the goalposts. You were talking about German universities, and now you are changing it in a way that makes NO sense in German society given that the MSA is a full leaving certificate (as is the ESA) and that over 50% of German students leave school with one of these two and nothing higher. These are each a specific level of qualification in the German system, and neither qualifies you for university without additional schooling. You can get into all kinds of really great careers without ever getting an Abi, much less attending a university. Only about 40% of German students from each grade go on to complete their Abi. The Abi remains the only German leaving qualification that leads to uni (obviously excluding adult education, which is much more common in Germany). You said that "German Unis accept German SLL certificates (Abitur, etc.) to a far greater extent than they do anything else, including the I.B." You referred to the plural twice ("certificates" "Abitur, etc."). However, the Abi is the only one of the four which even qualifies you for uni.


> Yes I did, in my first post. "Germany has a rather rigid position on
> subject adjacent degrees, and foreign credentials arent as valuable, simply
> that credentialing requirements in the US (in general) arent as high as
> they are in Germany." Bureaucracy is as much a factor in that
> rigidity.

No. Rigidity isn't bureaucracy. Something can be rigid and simple--and in the case of which degrees allow you to teach which subjects, it is rigid. In the case of getting an Anerkennung, it is anything but. Two different things. One is rigid. The other is bureaucratic.


>
> Again, your lack of vocabulary is showing, the word your looking for is
> obvious.

And again with the ad hominem. You really should get new material.

>
> Your lack of subject matter expertise is what I find bothersome. More so
> that your response was so drastically inaccurate and impractical. '

You know, I really could just start messing with you and see where your googling energy runs out.

>
> No its not double speak. Rigidity as a result of bureaucracy are the same.
> I am more than well aware of the definition of Amt. Many regions have an
> amt for a vast number of government offices.

See above re: rigidity. I also love that you just tried to expound on what I had already stated. Except that you got it wrong again. Every city has an Amt. Many have multiple. Depending on the Amt, you may need to travel to the county seat. Each Amt is separate, often in separate locations, though not always, and large cities might have multiple ones for each service. And Amt is always capitalised in German. ;) But tell me more about how a region has a single Amt for multiple services.


>
> Yes it is, being denied is one of several possible outcomes, and are so as
> a result of a rather rigid bureaucracy. As to the topic, Yes they simply
> can nullify your contract, your not eligible to hold the post. While a
> nullification may not survive an appeal to the Labor Board, it may very
> well survive such an appeal.


Sure, you can be denied after remediation fails. Given the nature of the temporary vs permanent contracts and the timeframes involved, the school may very well be stuck with you but be forced to find another role for you! Appeal to the Labor Board? That is actually not at all how it would work!


>
> You seem to think your one observation of an action plan somehow
> characterizes all action plans and if your observation is one, than yes I
> have seen more than you.

Ha! I have known of an action plan, yes, but most people don't have issues with the observation because they follow the blueprint. Also, you talk about rigidity, but somehow all your experiences are going to fit whatever you need to say to gaslight me. But sure, we all believe you have seen more, sweetie.

>
> Because you plagiarized, thats the correct term for one one commits
> plagiarism. Words are not your exclusive domain.

The more I post, the more you rewrite what I said and tell me I was wrong. I mean, leaving aside the irony of accusing me of plagiarism while saying words are not a person's exclusive domain, I have yet to parrot your points; I make them first, bringing up things for you to google and letting you run with them.


> More TPF, I absolutely understand what a Bundesland is, your opinion I dont
> doesnt make it true.

Dude, you didn't know the difference between Bundesland and Bundesländer, but now suddenly you are claiming you totally knew it all along! This is hilarious! I'm going to guess you're going to tell me all about the Oberbildungsverfassung and the DODR next.


>
> Then stop talking in circles, because it doent make you right.

And again . . . .

>
> I use MOE, since its a more generic term that the readership and those in
> our profession generally understand to mean without having to look the
> German term up.

You use LW when everyone on the internet uses OP. Nobody takes your abbreviations seriously. I got that you meant Ministry of Education--and googling German ministry of education does get you to the BMBF. But the BMBF is not at all responsible for accreditation and the like. In fact, their English language website states that "school and university education are mainly in the remit of the Länder"--in other words, they don't get involved in accreditation in any way. The terms I was referring to are the two types of schools, not any ministry terms. I have used them enough now that you should have gotten the idea of what they mean. But hey, if you want to use MOE to describe school types, go right ahead.


>
> It would not be easier from OS, unless the applicant would be happy with a
> denial, and the applicant just wants to apply, maybe to get an
> understanding how close or far away they would be. Otherwise yes you need
> an appointment or offer of an appointment if you want to do more than just
> engage in an exercise of posting documents.

Actually, while overseas it may be easier to access documents that you might be missing, and when you mail them in (electronically or hard copy) they land on a different desk than if you deliver them--and the mail option often ends up being less problematic. Furthermore, documents such as a Meldebescheinigung would not be needed. So yes, it might actually be easier. I don't know--haven't tried this route. I am guessing this is where PsyGuy will say that of course he has gone through both the in-country and overseas Anerkennung . . . . But I am basing my speculation off of other types of Amt interactions, and of course I don't know how the visa thing might factor in as I hold an EU passport. And getting the appointment is generally not the issue (unless it's the immigration Amt).

Incidentally, it isn't that an Anerkennung is denied as such. It's that you might lack the right documentation, which can be submitted later.



>
> From you, its in your reference to your classic non-sense of all you need
> to get a job in the EU is a contract.

I don't know where I have ever referenced that since it doesn't make sense. All you need to get a job is a contract? A contract implies you have a job and vice versa. But you've attacked me, gaslit me, moved goalposts--you may as well put words in my mouth. It wouldn't really change the tenor here.

>
> Yeah, there I go again (and again), The entirety of your post is nothing
> more than restating my position and adding your own unique brand of fluff
> and filler. Yes I can, but why say the same thing differently when it was
> right to begin with, because it was true then and is true now.

And again . . . .

>
> I dont think enough about you to form a position.

But enough to give me my own insult! When other people say something that gets you, they are just wrong, but I get the full TPF label!

At any rate, it's clear you are going to pretend to know more about the subject. Feel free to share more about where the OP can find information, how they should proceed, and what roadblocks they may encounter. Oh, and feel free to include information relevant to the Bundesland in question, links or at least names of places the OP could do their own looking, and maybe some tips on life in Germany that aren't likely to appear on someone's website--things you experienced that were so wonderfully German.

I'll let logic and reading skills parse PsyGuy's constant parroting attempts.

@Thames Pirate

Yeah again, because it was right then and is right now. Im getting the sense you understand this gas lighting concept a lot better than you let on.

It quite literally is the same process. Youre confusing the number and types of documents as being a different processes.

Yes, the BMBF, typo. The BMBF, however provides a model for the states to adopt and is subject to interpretation.

No, I tend to ignore your terminology that isnt relevant.

Which is precisely what I said. You were the one attempting to turn the funding into some sort of attempt to blur the differing categories of schools.

Yes some of them do choose to incorporate MOE practices and policies into their own and they can. Yes they do because rules are easy and avoid ambiguity in the future. Essentially allowing an IS to avoid future headaches. They arent giving up autonomy, they are choosing the easy route until the easy route doesnt work for them anymore, which allows them to bend it on a case by case basis or whenever its found to be unsuitable for them. Thats not giving anything up its exercising autonomy

I do enjoy logic. Its not moving the goal posts. You like to think it is because you dont actually have data to support your position, its easier for you to whine about something being unfair than it is for you to be wrong.

Neither the MSA or ESA is a full leaving certificate its a final leaving certificate thats of intermediate level. Theres still something above it (Arbitur) thats part of secondary edu.

Yes, bureaucracy can be a form of rigidity. Bureaucracy can also be simple.

Happy to hear you agree with my discussion of rigidity, finally.

The old material works so well, given its accuracy.

Did you really just throw down a gauntlet that your German translator can beat up my German translator. (ROTFLOL)

See rigidity above.

Well someone has to finish up the mess you make, expounding is certainly one of the tools in my edu tool box, and Im not writing in German so amt can be in lowercase a or an upside down one ∀ if I want, ∀mt. Is there a German spelling gestapo thats going to stop me.

Happy to hear you agree. Actually not happy, but I have to type less when you agree so theres that.

H∀, I have known of an action plan in multiple contexts as well as deficiency plan also in multiple contexts.
Most people just try to present an idealized lesson without errors or deviations from the blueprint but thats true of all evaluative observations regardless of their location.

The more I write, the more you rewrite what I said because what you think you know, you actually dont. Youre like the tourist who spends a few weeks in Germany seeing the sites and learns a couple words that they now think they know everything or anything. When the encapsulation of your entire knowledge base wouldnt fill a couple pages in a travel guide.

I use LW as reference to Letter Writer meaning the individual who first posted their topic to the forum and use OP (Original Poster) to refer to the first post on the current thread within the topic. Not that I need @Thames Pirate or "The Internets" consent or counsel. I suppose The Internet will be mad at me now, even though everything The Internet claims as its own originated with someone doing something for the first time.

I take my abbreviations seriously and my ego doesnt need approval from others.

Nowhere did the LW nor I, mention or elude to accreditation, this is a hiring/personnel topic. The vast majority of accreditation schemes (including Germany) have exceptions, provisos, addendums that allow an IS or DS to maintain accreditation despite personnel irregularities.

I know what they mean, we differ in positions. Your position is that they have complete autonomy when they arent entirely free of the MOE (the BMBF) and that because the BMBF doesnt so much dictate as they provide model resources that are again easy to implement, and some of these model resources do pertain to credentialing and hiring.

I cant possibly see how. At best accessing documents overseas would be 'AS' easy as being available locally. In no scenario can I see them being easier. Its a matter of proximity and its correlation to accessibility. I could expound on it more (one of my tools in my edu tool box).

Lots of people have EU passports.

No, its so much that sometimes its denied and with such an exhausting level of deficiencies they cant reasonably be overcome.

I love this. Schools are following rules that don't apply to them to avoid future headaches even though, again, the rules don't apply? The KMK isn't relevant to education? The MSA isn't a full leaving certificate even though nearly 60% get it, then leave? And did you not know that every noun in German is always capitalised? And are you seriously claiming rigidity and exceptions/addendums?

These are as classic as the mythical Japanese equestrian school posting. Pretend to be an expert, and when google fails, claim you don't need to provide evidence or talk about whatever it was I posted. What's next--"do your own research" or "only data matters"? Or is this another thread where you tell me how much money I add to my savings each year? I mean, if we are going with the hits, you may as well play all your best numbers.

You don't answer direct questions to prove your expertise, you don't offer new information, and you don't explain anything unless you can google it or someone else explained it first. You are a fraud, a liar, and an absolute gem for entertainment.

Anyway, this has been an entertaining way to start into the summer, but we have beaten this dead horse until it has risen up to haunt us. I answered the OP's question, you got to play troll for a bit and pretend to have known people who have experienced the stuff you are pretending happens, and now you can pretend you always knew all about what KMK stands for or what any of the myriad other German terms I used means. Your delusions are fed, I have had a good laugh, and hopefully the OP tuned out long ago.

If you want to play, feel free to expound on any of the points I brought up that you haven't touched yet.

You are pathological.

@Thames Pirate

I do so enjoy these lite conversations of ours.

Yes, ISs follow rules they dont have to. Some to avoid headaches down the line and future problems, some for marketing ("all of our faculty meet the requirements of the MOE for the credentialing of teachers"), some for other reasons.

No, not specifically relevant, ministries are ministries.

The MSA is not a full leaving certificate, its a final one but its an intermediate leaving certificate.

Your summarization ability isnt bad.

No its not always capitalized, heres an example "abitur", see not capitalized.

Nothing mythical about the Japanese equestrian school posting, just wasnt interested in you.
You otherwise describe your MO pretty well. You claim to know something than make some absurdly non-sense statement and then retreat to over-simplification or some other kindergarten level cognitive device (did you know kindergarten is a German noun and look its not capitalized).

I already used only data matters, and its not like you can do research when what you fabricate in your mind is so much easier.

No telling you how much coin you add to your accounts is another topic not this one.

I provided a very direct response to the LW. I dont need to add new information, when the old information was right to begin with. This isnt a compensatory system where some quantity of weak data somehow equates to strong data.

The only fraud and liar is @Thames Pirate, and your countless instances of TPF.

It has been, not that youd know how to care for a horse. I responded with an accurate response to the LW, and you got to troll your convoluted non-sense out. Youre pathological narcissism sufficiently nourished, along with your German dictionary, provided a hearty amount of laughter.

And again . . . .

Would you like to take a crack at proving your knowledge? Oh wait. You always avoid those opportunities.

@Thames Pirate

Yes, again, see above.

Ah, should I ask some questions? Show your knowledge of German language, horses, or any of those areas you claim I know nothing about.

@Thames Pirate

Is your German translator going to beat up my German translator?
You dont know anything about horses. Youve demonstrated you dont know anything about the German credentialing system for edu. If you have questions you dont need permission, Ive demonstrated in this topic alone that you dont know what youre talking about. You convoluted and twisted non-sense.

I mean, seriously, are you a bot? I use a word like plagiarism and you accuse me of it. I use troll and suddenly that's what you're calling me. I accused you of googling things, and in the next post it's what you say I a doing. I called you pathological and a liar, and suddenly those words are being used by you. I provide an anecdote and you claim to know a guy and drop the term anecdote. I give information that an Amt is just a term for government office and that they are ubiquitous, and suddenly you know all about where they are. I point out that a poor observation doesn't lead to immediate termination, and suddenly you know all about the process for remediation. I bring up the fact that Germany's education is not nationally unified, and suddenly you are all about the different Bundesländer.

It's comical, really.

I wonder how long you would keep this up.

But when I challenge you to prove your knowledge, you demonstrate that you have nothing. Go ahead, hot shot. Ask questions or answer mine. Prove you are more than talk.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Part of the pattern. I must really threaten your self esteem.

@Thames Pirate

Id state the same but Id get better responses from a bot than yours have been. Bots can maintain a semblance of linear thought.

You dont own words. Youre taking what youre doing and using it as an accusation, why should I run what you write through a thesaurus. I know your vocabulary is challenged but there isnt anything special, or niche about the language your using, or being provided to you.
I respond and address these various items because you bring them up, its called replying.

Yes it is comical.

i dont owe you anything, youre not a proctor, or leader, or administrator. Youve been challenged in the entirety of this topic and youve demonstrated that you know nothing beyond a few German words.

Exactly what I was thinking, your ego just cant handle being wrong.

Standard empty suit response. No knowledge, so bowing out of anything requiring it. Only responding to threads when someone else has already provided information, but rephrasing it and claiming superior knowledge. But at the first hint of being challenged, nothing but backing down.

Even in today’s AI world he fears exposing his ignorance and ending the game.

@Thames Pirate

Standard TPF. Surrender on all claims, no knowledge, and resort to name calling. Blank paper in a binder, and repping its something.

He’s got to be feeding this into a bot. Blank paper in a binder?