The International Schools Review Forum

@wedodude

No its better to use common language. In this case smart board is the brand that defines the technology. Your much safer using that. We will just have to disagree.

@julie23

If that's the case with the international school, I'd give you the half a point back and you would be at an even 7.

This is the 1-10 rating system I use when rating applicants (and yes the maximum is 11, some applicants really are that good):

1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard contract completion)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Population Qualified (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)

I strongly disagree with Walters review, he's really just appealing to your ego, and telling you what you want to hear. All the life long learner and travel, ESL experience doesnt mean anything. It's disingenuous of him to make it sound like your a 10, or your a super candidate, when your just average, sorry. It might feel good to hear it but it's not reality. Anyone who says ESL experience or a TESOL certificate is worth anything on the IS circuit, is crazy talk.

You should still go to the fair, there's nothing wrong with being average. Your a veteran teacher, that's your strong selling point. BOS/Cambridge would be the best fair for you. BKK and London would be a disappointing experience for you.

@Sevarem

The model UN and chess club activities are nice but they aren't worth anything, either your school will expect you to do something after school or they won't. Again, the addional ESL experience isn't worth anything.

Dear Sigh Guy...

While you may have lurked on the fringes of a job fair (although this is somewhat dubious), it is very clear that you don't have any responsibility for hiring.

My school pays a lot of money to bring ESL in the mainstream into...er the mainstream. Our MUN programme is also very important to the school.

Julie33...please, pay attention to the recruiter.

Sigh Guy, please don't waste your breath telling me we will have to disagree. A little like living in Switzerland...your opinion means nothing when it is not backed up by experience.

@lifeisnotsobad

Ive been hiring for a number of years actually, so were just going to have to disagree.

Hiring an ESL teacher is far different from hiring a general education teacher who has experience/qualifications with ESL students. If Im bringing in an ESL teacher for the ESL program that teachers being rated based on what they bring to that department, so an ESL teacher with 5 years of experience teaching ESL gets 5 points for experience.
If were looking to hire a MYP math teacher who also happens to be ESL qualified/experienced then they only get a quarter point. The reason is im hiring for 2 different purposes, Im not hiring the math teacher to provide ESL support or resource, Im hiring them to teach math. How good of a math teacher are they relative to other math teachers is the objective. My questions are:

1)How good are they at teaching calculus and algebra (experience)?
2) Do they really know the material (Degree)?
3) Can i stick them in Physics (Cross Certified)?
4) Can they prepare students for "THE" exam (Curriculum Experience)?
5) Does their spouse also teach (Logistical hire)?

Those are the things that matter, having some ESL training/experience/qualification just isnt worth very much.

If Im hiring an ESL teacher I want to know

1) Can they produce a grade level increase in english language ability in a year?
2) Do they really know how maximize language acquisition access, or are they just doing vocabulary?
3) What level of the general program subject material are they comfortable with? Could they really help a physics, chemistry, calculus, economics student in DIP2?
4) Can they get kids scores of 600 on the TOEFL?
5) Does their spouse teach?

No PsyGuy, you simply and as usual are wrong. SMART is only a brand that sells the interactive whiteboard, which is what it is, an interactive whiteboard. Calling it by it's brand name, unless you are actually using that brand, is foolish and makes you sound less credible.

And to the OP, check out DoDEA. ESL is a high needs area and your experience should catch the interest of an admin at a school. Also, Walter has a lot more credibility on this forum than PsyGuy does. PsyGuy seems to make his living as a professional Internet message board poster that has taught all over the universe the last few years. There isn't a place that he hasn't taught, and even though he breaks contracts and has no long-term history at any given location wants us all to believe that he's this highly marketable person. Ask yourself, what school, or organization is going to hire sometime that bounces around so much every year?

Sigh Guy...look up ESL in the mainstream...you clearly have never heard of it, which in itself does not surprise me. For whom have you been recruiting...I thought you claimed had been a junior admin for (only) a year? Prior to this (according to you) you were a teacher...

@wedodude

I disagree, calling it by its commonly accepted name reduces confusion, which is always a good thing. We could go back and forth on this forever, so we will just have to disagree.

@lifeisnotsobad

Im familiar with it, it doesnt change my position or view. My experience outside of the fall to spring academic year go beyond those of a teacher.

And what I'm telling you is that the common term for it is interactive whiteboard. You don't call a chocolate bar a Hershey's bar, unless you are eating a Hershey's bar. If it's a Kit Kat, you're going to look foolish calling that a Hershey's bar.

You should come with a warning label, "Bad Advice Ahead, Listen to Me With Extreme Caution"...

I understand your point, and your POV, I just disagree with it. While i wouldnt have used that -, and understand that reference. If I want a tissue, Im going to ask for a Kleenex. In this case of technology, the use of smart board is the common term. Yes, i call it a smart board, regardless of the manufacturer.

Its really funny that your taking this position, because the term "whiteboard" is in itself a brand, and registered trademark.

[quote="PsyGuy"]

"I strongly disagree with Walters review, he's really just appealing to your ego, and telling you what you want to hear. All the life long learner and travel, ESL experience doesnt mean anything. It's disingenuous of him to make it sound like your a 10, or your a super candidate, when your just average, sorry. It might feel good to hear it but it's not reality. Anyone who says ESL experience or a TESOL certificate is worth anything on the IS circuit, is crazy talk."

PsyGuy, I didn't read Walter's post like you did, apparently. He said one aspect of my profile/experience was "very important" and the rest was "important" or "not at all important". That would mean, that I am not a "10" in his eyes, but I'm not the totally inexperienced, bottom of the barrel , last resort teacher (7?). I've seen you be far more encouraging (yet still shooting from the hip) with teachers in other posts with much less experience.... Nonetheless, I have appreciated the dialogue around this issue of what is desirable in a candidate and why.

Walter, it's nice to hear from recruiters as well. Thanks for your feedback.

WeDoDude: Thank you for your tip on DoDEA, and your encouragement. Unfortunately, you need to be an American citizen (as far as I understand), but I am Canadian.

In general, I think my ESL experience has been misunderstood. In 13 years of teaching, I have taught a few courses in my high school that were ESL. The other experience was in Japan pre-certification so I realize it is of no value... I am considering joining Search and going to the fair in Boston. What is the difference between the schools that attend the Boston Fair and the ones that go to the Bangkok fair?

Thanks again everyone---this has been great.

So in my time in this game I have been the prime recruiter for five international schools, attended every major fair and hired hundreds of teachers. As far as I can tell from your resume, you have had six jobs in seven years and have never been in a position to recruit anyone. You say that most recently you have been a junior administrator in Denmark at a municipal school. I don't believe that. What I do believe though is that, after just one year in your last school, you have been found out again and moved on. Now you claim to be with DODEA, and of course there are the usual doubts about that. Even if you are, it won't be too much of a problem for the poor kids you'll encounter, because you'll be moved on again after another year.
Your one claim to recruitment fame is that last year you blagged your way into the SEARCH Fair in Sydney without paying and acting, you say, on the instructions of your school head. Your modus operandi was to hang around the public areas and "bump" into candidates like an old-style spiv with a row of watches or pornographic photos inside your overcoat. So much for Psyguy the international school recruiter.
Meantime, no one I know ever recruits by ascribing points to particular aspects of a candidate's resume. The people I know look to get a holistic view of a candidate's viability, and all of those points I marked "Important" are exactly the kind of thing that recruiters look for:
1) Does the candidate have the appropriate qualifications?
2) Does the candidate have solid experience in her preferred teaching field?
3) What else is interesting or noteworthy about the candidate's resume?
In regard to point 3, all of those additional details about teaching in China and Japan, about working with ESL students, about after-school activities are exactly the kind of thing that would make me want to interview this this woman.
Of course, that doesn't mean she'd get the job. That would be down to the interview and how well she performed.
You do such damage to this website and to the poor people who think you have some credibility in the world of international education. I had to laugh in another thread when you berated some woman for dreaming of getting a good job at a top international school and then put down a list of your own "dream schools". I know those schools and their heads, and they wouldn't look at a no-hoper like you.

He doesn't work for DoDEA. He doesn't have a DoDEA "source" either. He's on the radar of this organization for the amount of misinformation and outright lies he spills. He has caused a lot of mishaps with new employees by giving advice that isn't truthful. What he doesn't know is that we've actually had admin meetings about this board and another board that I don't visit where he posts as Dave. He's had actual DoDEA employees complain about his misinformation. He is, in the truest sense of the word, a troll.

And yes, I care because he caused a lot of headaches of me this summer with one of our new employees by giving the person some seriously wrong info which caused this employee to finally just arrive yesterday when we hired this person in June.

And yes, I've sent out word to my higher-ups about this person because we almost lost this new employee because of the added stress that he caused them. And there are higher-ups looking for any new employee that matches his "description" and as of yet, none have been found system wide.

It's why I'll never, ever, give this site a dime of my money. This site loses any credibility because they allow this person to post here unchecked, and unbalanced.

@julie33

I'm sorry if I didn't sound encouraging. As I wrote before I hate the idea of reducing a person to a single number. You would be very employable, a 7 isn't bad at all, a lot of successful teachers who get hired globally have scores in the 4 range. A 7 is something to be proud of, it's just not a 10. Your certainly not the bottom of the barrel. Such a number is only useful when comparing to other international teachers and applicants. If you look at a newbie, they usually have scores around a 2 and they get hired all the time. If I gave you that impression, I really am sorry, that's not the case or my intention.

I should add, that the reason the rating, which we use in preliminary screening doesn't work in the secondary and final selection, is because aft rating, you role and fit sort. For instance while being a teaching couple is worth a point what isn't calculated, is that if you have a trailing spouse and three kids, it doesn't matter how good you are, or what you offer, we can't/couldn't hire you. You would just be to expensive. If we have 300 students at our school and our DIP english lit teacher has to leave a few days into the year, becuase her house and extended family are in a huricane or medical emergency, and I need an IB teacher, then I need an IB teacher. That type of "fit" and "role" is a deal breaker, doesn't matter if your score is a 9 or 10. If your 60 and immigration won't issue a work visa, or You need an EU passport to get a work permit, it doesn't matter what your score or resume is at all.

There isn't a whole lot of difference between the 3 big fairs, which are Bangkok, London, and Boston. You see a lot of the same schools. The BK fair is just the start of the recruiting season, and usually it's where the top teachers get offers from the elite schools, who since they get first pick, because they have the best contracts and schools finish early. London is mostly European schools you need an EU passport, or specific experience for this fair. The Boston fair is the big "general teacher" fair, this is for professional teachers who are experienced but aren't veterans yet (who didnt go to BKK). Usually the newbies get steered into the SF job fair, which is so late it's pretty much the leftovers.
If you went to BKK, you'd be disappointed, your just competing with a lot of teachers that are 9s and 10s if you will, and you don't have a hook, or offer anything special to make the London fair worthwhile. Boston's your best bet, and youd likely have your choice of a couple offers there.

[quote="Walter"]Give me an e mail address - create a new account by all means and post it here - and I'll write to you there.[/quote]

Walter,

May I ask you a question off-forum? Thanks!
chsm2006@gmail.com

Thanks PsyGuy, I will strongly consider the Boston fair. And I truly appreciate your posts. I feel pretty excited about going through this process!

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