Hi everyone - happy holidays! I'm taking the plunge and wanting to head into school counselling. I am not positive on the level yet but imagine upper primary or middle school.
I am asking for recommended online masters of counselling recommendations. I am looking for a great program, that is reasonably priced, and done in 2 years (maybe 2 1/2 but I'd rather 2)
My profile is I am not a western born person - so no US/Canada/European citizenship.
I'll stay international for the foreseeable future - and will work in Asia or Europe ideally @ International Schools.
The big programs seem to be Lehigh (https://ed.lehigh.edu/academics/degrees ... ing-online) and what ISCA seems to recommend (https://iscainfo.com/Becoming)
Right now I am in Hong Kong - and will do my practicum here as well hopefully fingers crossed.
Anyone have any recent experience or somewhere they would recommend? Thanks!
Counselling Degree - Options?
Response
If referring specifically to the ISCA Unis mentioned than, none of them.
First, you cant get credentialed. Both the Lehigh and UB (PA and NY) only credential those with US citizenship. That means your paying coin solely for a degree and your marketability is going to be based solely on a degree, but in the US edu credentials, such as those for a Sc.C. have real value. Essentially its a hard sell coming from a US program without a credential when other candidates will be coming from US programs with credentials.
Second, those Unis are all really high in coin given the cost of tuition for international students.
What youre going to want to do is find an online counseling program either somewhere where you qualify for local tuition (like HK) or somewhere thats cheap for international students (the UK, well compared to tuition costs in the US). You will want this Uni to either 1) Provide you a highly marketable degree with high status or that meets the requirements locally for some sort of Sc.C. credential. 2) Find a Uni that follows/provides the courses outlined for the DC Standard (professional grade) credential. For this pathway you just need a Masters in Counseling that include the 8 required courses, have 2 years teaching experience (which saves you problems with the field experience requirement) and pass the credentialing exam. This opens up a lot more options (including options costing much less coin) for you because you just need a counseling masters, and you dont need field experience hours.
If youre not going to get an edu credential as a Sc.C then get your degree from somewhere where Sc.C. is a grey area or a specialization of general counseling. Somewhere like the UK where you will want to use whatever counseling degree you get and apply for membership either with the BACP or the ISPC
https://www.bacp.co.uk/
https://ispc.org.uk/
I cant recommend a non-American pursue a US Sc.C path to a degree or credential. Even in so far as the US paradigm of mental health (MH) is a part of the western position on MH its several orders of magnitude higher than that which you find in many other western regions. The reason is really simple, in the US MH costs coin so Sc.C fill that publicly funded gap created by a health care system that thinks MH that isnt chemical dependency can be solved in 6 sessions. That doesnt happen elsewhere where competent general health MH professionals are available for however long they are needed. In IE all the real MH problems get referred out. Being an IE Sc.C is mostly a student management/junior leadership position for those who like the socialization aspect. Youre much better off professionally going the general counselor route with membership in one of the above organizations, not only will you save coin and headache but when you decide to leave IE it will be an easy transition to setting up your own shop and hanging your own shingle. Where you can make in 2 hour long sessions what your IS pays for a day (especially when you get into psychometrics).
First, you cant get credentialed. Both the Lehigh and UB (PA and NY) only credential those with US citizenship. That means your paying coin solely for a degree and your marketability is going to be based solely on a degree, but in the US edu credentials, such as those for a Sc.C. have real value. Essentially its a hard sell coming from a US program without a credential when other candidates will be coming from US programs with credentials.
Second, those Unis are all really high in coin given the cost of tuition for international students.
What youre going to want to do is find an online counseling program either somewhere where you qualify for local tuition (like HK) or somewhere thats cheap for international students (the UK, well compared to tuition costs in the US). You will want this Uni to either 1) Provide you a highly marketable degree with high status or that meets the requirements locally for some sort of Sc.C. credential. 2) Find a Uni that follows/provides the courses outlined for the DC Standard (professional grade) credential. For this pathway you just need a Masters in Counseling that include the 8 required courses, have 2 years teaching experience (which saves you problems with the field experience requirement) and pass the credentialing exam. This opens up a lot more options (including options costing much less coin) for you because you just need a counseling masters, and you dont need field experience hours.
If youre not going to get an edu credential as a Sc.C then get your degree from somewhere where Sc.C. is a grey area or a specialization of general counseling. Somewhere like the UK where you will want to use whatever counseling degree you get and apply for membership either with the BACP or the ISPC
https://www.bacp.co.uk/
https://ispc.org.uk/
I cant recommend a non-American pursue a US Sc.C path to a degree or credential. Even in so far as the US paradigm of mental health (MH) is a part of the western position on MH its several orders of magnitude higher than that which you find in many other western regions. The reason is really simple, in the US MH costs coin so Sc.C fill that publicly funded gap created by a health care system that thinks MH that isnt chemical dependency can be solved in 6 sessions. That doesnt happen elsewhere where competent general health MH professionals are available for however long they are needed. In IE all the real MH problems get referred out. Being an IE Sc.C is mostly a student management/junior leadership position for those who like the socialization aspect. Youre much better off professionally going the general counselor route with membership in one of the above organizations, not only will you save coin and headache but when you decide to leave IE it will be an easy transition to setting up your own shop and hanging your own shingle. Where you can make in 2 hour long sessions what your IS pays for a day (especially when you get into psychometrics).
Re: Counselling Degree - Options?
Thanks for that reply. You raise good points.
I am wondering about UK programmes and even Canadian ones.
There are a few online ones in Canada;
1) https://www.yorkvilleu.ca/programs/mast ... sychology/
2) https://www.ulethbridge.ca/future-stude ... ounselling
I am not as familiar with possible ones in the UK. Any suggestions?
I am wondering about your point on psychometrics - I wonder what programme would be best suited to getting into that field. Having a doctorate of psyc is probably the best way and establishing yourself in whatever community you happen to be in. Having seen the costs for testing it seems like quite a lucrative field.
Thanks for your reply - most appreciated.
I am wondering about UK programmes and even Canadian ones.
There are a few online ones in Canada;
1) https://www.yorkvilleu.ca/programs/mast ... sychology/
2) https://www.ulethbridge.ca/future-stude ... ounselling
I am not as familiar with possible ones in the UK. Any suggestions?
I am wondering about your point on psychometrics - I wonder what programme would be best suited to getting into that field. Having a doctorate of psyc is probably the best way and establishing yourself in whatever community you happen to be in. Having seen the costs for testing it seems like quite a lucrative field.
Thanks for your reply - most appreciated.
Reply
@applecake
What are you considering "reasonable" in terms of coin? Both Lethbridge and Yorkville are CAD$40K in tuition/fees.
At least Yorkvilles program is fully distance learning. Lethbridge is a hybrid program, as you would have to be in residence for a portion (2 weeks) of the summer term, adding yet more to the cost for travel.
A major issue is just how flexible are they going to be with your field work placements, both in terms of an acceptable environment and supervisor requirements?
Unless your going to McGill (which doesnt have an online or distance counseling degree program) as far as global ivys go aside from that a Masters is a Masters, it doesnt matter where you go. Cost and coin become far more important factors than Uni status and reputation.
Is there a reason you havent considered HK? Youre there so you dont need an online program and youre there which makes field experience much easier. Theres even a literal Masters degree in Sc.C:
https://www.gs.cuhk.edu.hk/admissions/p ... ounselling
With that titled degree coming from HK you wouldnt need a separate credential (though you could still pursue one through DC since the degree scroll would actually be inscribed in Sc.C the 8 courses become less critical). Its also half the cost of the CAN programs.
As for the UK if its not OxBridge it really doesnt matter which Uni you get your counseling degree from, as long as it leads to a practice license with BACP it doesnt really matter.
If pursuing psychometrics than the best counseling program is none of them. There may be an exception somewhere but I feel very comfortable with the statement that psychometrics are not what counseling programs (at the Masters level) trade in. You might have a course on it if you are lucky, there might be some introduction to it as part of your research/statistics work but clinical psychology is far more the appropriate route into psychometrics.
You can do very well somewhere like HK, Beijing, Shanghai, Taipei, etc. doing intelligence testing in EC.
What are you considering "reasonable" in terms of coin? Both Lethbridge and Yorkville are CAD$40K in tuition/fees.
At least Yorkvilles program is fully distance learning. Lethbridge is a hybrid program, as you would have to be in residence for a portion (2 weeks) of the summer term, adding yet more to the cost for travel.
A major issue is just how flexible are they going to be with your field work placements, both in terms of an acceptable environment and supervisor requirements?
Unless your going to McGill (which doesnt have an online or distance counseling degree program) as far as global ivys go aside from that a Masters is a Masters, it doesnt matter where you go. Cost and coin become far more important factors than Uni status and reputation.
Is there a reason you havent considered HK? Youre there so you dont need an online program and youre there which makes field experience much easier. Theres even a literal Masters degree in Sc.C:
https://www.gs.cuhk.edu.hk/admissions/p ... ounselling
With that titled degree coming from HK you wouldnt need a separate credential (though you could still pursue one through DC since the degree scroll would actually be inscribed in Sc.C the 8 courses become less critical). Its also half the cost of the CAN programs.
As for the UK if its not OxBridge it really doesnt matter which Uni you get your counseling degree from, as long as it leads to a practice license with BACP it doesnt really matter.
If pursuing psychometrics than the best counseling program is none of them. There may be an exception somewhere but I feel very comfortable with the statement that psychometrics are not what counseling programs (at the Masters level) trade in. You might have a course on it if you are lucky, there might be some introduction to it as part of your research/statistics work but clinical psychology is far more the appropriate route into psychometrics.
You can do very well somewhere like HK, Beijing, Shanghai, Taipei, etc. doing intelligence testing in EC.
Re: Counselling Degree - Options?
Psy thanks - I am considering that exact programme here in Hong Kong. It's 18K USD compared to $30K USD for the Lehigh degree. Lots of pro's and con's for sure on both sides.
I do wonder outside of HK, when I apply for a counselling job, if a degree from Lehigh which seems to have a better reputation, would be impactful. If it is, then the extra 12K is well worth it. However, it is a wonder.
The licensing thing is actually my concern - moreso than the cost to be honest. IE can be quite the wild wild west for certification - and some care and some do not when hiring. But I'm not sure I want to be in a position where they ask for a certification or license and I can't say I have one (i.e. via Lehigh) - whereas in HK at least I would get a licensure.
The one other crazy thing I am considering is a Masters in Librarianship (https://ischool.sjsu.edu/master-library ... on-science) - crazy I know!
I do wonder outside of HK, when I apply for a counselling job, if a degree from Lehigh which seems to have a better reputation, would be impactful. If it is, then the extra 12K is well worth it. However, it is a wonder.
The licensing thing is actually my concern - moreso than the cost to be honest. IE can be quite the wild wild west for certification - and some care and some do not when hiring. But I'm not sure I want to be in a position where they ask for a certification or license and I can't say I have one (i.e. via Lehigh) - whereas in HK at least I would get a licensure.
The one other crazy thing I am considering is a Masters in Librarianship (https://ischool.sjsu.edu/master-library ... on-science) - crazy I know!
Reply
@applecake
Unless its the handful of global ivys a Masters is a Masters is a Masters. The only scenario where a Lehigh degree will ever matter is if you are find yourself interviewing with someone who is a Lehigh alum. All of the rankings, ratings, reputation, associations, and endorsements mean all of zero. They are nothing more than sales devices to generate revenue for the Uni. Theres nothing to wonder, its not worth the face value of a 1wen coin. Its vague and ghostly alluring to the value of prestige for a Uni without status of note.
In the realm of professional edus what constitutes a credential for a classroom IT is much more tangible and understood. When it comes to pupil services/student support the value of a credential is much more a grey area as to what is acceptable given that such credentials for Sc.C are less globally common. make no mistake though if your paying US coin for US tuition in a US Uni for a Sc.C program and degree and not getting a credential out of it, thats a significant handicap compared to all those western American Sc.C coming out of those programs with credentials. Its to your detriment to put your resume in the same group as those, as you wont have a Sc.C credential and they will.
It would be negligent of me not to comment that your bigger issue and challenge is that youre a non-westerner, and I take it your not white, and thats going to be a bigger issue for you to get past than degree, credential, or anything else. Youre not American/British/Australian/Canadian, "how could you possibly identify with western students and their first world, white people problems". Thats what recruiters and leaders are going to think. Its one thing if an IS has an applicant pool of you, and just you but if theres westerners in it who are qualified why hire you?
Both jobs are generally equivalent in workload and stress though their tasking is different. Sc.C get an office get to sit on leadership meeting and get some power in controlling the master schedule, all while getting to wear dresses heels and socialize with parents and other non-child interaction. When you do have to manage case files and students its usually short periods of limited duration that resolve quickly and rarely involve protracted contact time. Some ISs use their Sc.C as an intermediary point for behavior/discipline referrals. The worst thing an IT can do to annoy an Sc.C is a student referral where the Sc.C has to babysit the student for the period. It really breaks into their social media consumption.
Librarians (Lib) may have a minimal teaching load, usually a research class or seminar. Sometimes the Lib. is tapped as the faculty rep. for leadership meetings since they have time. As you mentioned primary there will be the obligatory day or period that classrooms come to the library to do library things. You may have a storybook period. You may find yourself also being the designated 'study hall'. Otherwise its sitting in your back room behind the counter or at the counter on a computer and browsing the internet or being on your phone. If the returns are checked in and shelved and theres no one there you can essentially have a cup of tea, stream a movie, and take a nap.
Both positions are generally seen as promotions out of the classroom and low stress. It really just depends if youre more the front of the house (Sc.C) type or back of the house (Lib.) type.
There is a lot less opportunity for a Lib. to start their own shop and hang a shingle. Youre own bookstore maybe than there is in a regulated pseudo medical (MH) profession like a counselor.
Unless its the handful of global ivys a Masters is a Masters is a Masters. The only scenario where a Lehigh degree will ever matter is if you are find yourself interviewing with someone who is a Lehigh alum. All of the rankings, ratings, reputation, associations, and endorsements mean all of zero. They are nothing more than sales devices to generate revenue for the Uni. Theres nothing to wonder, its not worth the face value of a 1wen coin. Its vague and ghostly alluring to the value of prestige for a Uni without status of note.
In the realm of professional edus what constitutes a credential for a classroom IT is much more tangible and understood. When it comes to pupil services/student support the value of a credential is much more a grey area as to what is acceptable given that such credentials for Sc.C are less globally common. make no mistake though if your paying US coin for US tuition in a US Uni for a Sc.C program and degree and not getting a credential out of it, thats a significant handicap compared to all those western American Sc.C coming out of those programs with credentials. Its to your detriment to put your resume in the same group as those, as you wont have a Sc.C credential and they will.
It would be negligent of me not to comment that your bigger issue and challenge is that youre a non-westerner, and I take it your not white, and thats going to be a bigger issue for you to get past than degree, credential, or anything else. Youre not American/British/Australian/Canadian, "how could you possibly identify with western students and their first world, white people problems". Thats what recruiters and leaders are going to think. Its one thing if an IS has an applicant pool of you, and just you but if theres westerners in it who are qualified why hire you?
Both jobs are generally equivalent in workload and stress though their tasking is different. Sc.C get an office get to sit on leadership meeting and get some power in controlling the master schedule, all while getting to wear dresses heels and socialize with parents and other non-child interaction. When you do have to manage case files and students its usually short periods of limited duration that resolve quickly and rarely involve protracted contact time. Some ISs use their Sc.C as an intermediary point for behavior/discipline referrals. The worst thing an IT can do to annoy an Sc.C is a student referral where the Sc.C has to babysit the student for the period. It really breaks into their social media consumption.
Librarians (Lib) may have a minimal teaching load, usually a research class or seminar. Sometimes the Lib. is tapped as the faculty rep. for leadership meetings since they have time. As you mentioned primary there will be the obligatory day or period that classrooms come to the library to do library things. You may have a storybook period. You may find yourself also being the designated 'study hall'. Otherwise its sitting in your back room behind the counter or at the counter on a computer and browsing the internet or being on your phone. If the returns are checked in and shelved and theres no one there you can essentially have a cup of tea, stream a movie, and take a nap.
Both positions are generally seen as promotions out of the classroom and low stress. It really just depends if youre more the front of the house (Sc.C) type or back of the house (Lib.) type.
There is a lot less opportunity for a Lib. to start their own shop and hang a shingle. Youre own bookstore maybe than there is in a regulated pseudo medical (MH) profession like a counselor.