I signed a contract with an IS in Shanghai back in November. It's July now and I am still waiting to apply for a work visa. The country I am in now is in lockdown and the Chinese visa center has been closed since June 1st. They have not been processing work visas since March 2020. The chances of leaving the country to report to work by August 16th is not possible now. I have been updating the school's HR staff regularly regarding my situation since February.
In May I began enquiring about the contract to find out what was the school's contingency plan in case I wasn't able to report to work in August. I received no information except to be told that the school's admin team would decide later. When I enquired further, I didn't get a reply. Since June, I have been emailing the school regularly and finally I was told that they wanted me to come and I could teach online but it needed confirmation. After two weeks, I still received no news. Finally, I told HR I will not be able to report to work due to the current circumstance and followed up with more questions about online teaching expectations. At that point, a meeting was scheduled with the head of school. I was told
1. that the school was willing to wait as long as possible.
2. I will not be expected to work online for 6 hours! Work hours will be flexible...meet with teachers, meeting with parents, work with some kids etc. I had expressed my concern about possibly working online for extended periods time. I was assured that expectations would be adjusted and it was all going to be fine!
3. Due to the reduced workload, I will only be paid 80% of the agreed salary. It was standard practice at the school. Is this common practice?
4. The visa situation will be reviewed monthly but if there was no change to the visa policy, then we would review the situation again in August.
5. HOS was confident that things will open up by October and things will improve when more people are vaccinated around the world.
Should I be asking the school to give me this in writing regarding work hours and responsibilities? If I did ask, would that mean I implying indirectly I don't trust them? I was also told the person whom I was taking over from left the school in a lurch and did not fulfill some of her responsibilities and because of that, there was no program as such. Sounded like I will be walking into a bigger mess than I thought!
I have never been in this situation so am feeling very unsure of what to do, say and obviously feeling concerned. Should I just bail out now before the contract kicks in on August 1st? I have never considered bailing out on a contract ever in my whole life but last year, the school I was with dropped me after a year into the contract and used the pandemic as an excuse, so my views on this have changed. There is a clause in the contract that says, "The contract is conditional upon the employee obtaining the work permit." and "If the Employee having signed the contract informs the school that he/she does not intend to start work with the school, ...be liable to compensate the school with an amount equivalent to the wages payable for the required period of notice (which is 30 days)..." Should I enquire if the school will follow through with the second clause under the current situation?
Help! :) Any words of wisdom/advice/suggestions on how to maneuver a situation like this would be appreciated. Thank you!
Contract
Re: Contract
Take what they pay and have a back-up plan. I'll be applying for schools in the mean time to cover all bases. Even top-tier schools in China cancelled contracts and laid off teachers last year.
Response
I have bad news for you. They are looking for someone else. They are hoping they find someone in time to start in August. Thats why the delay. If they find someone they are just going to exercise the condition of the contract that you didnt report and those they will rescind the contract. They cant even get you a PU letter if you cant get to the consulate/embassy processing center. They could fly you into HK process your visa there using a PU letter, but they have decided to just look for someone else and they havent been able to identify anyone so they are keeping you online with a remote learning option. No IS in China wants to do another year of any amount of remote learning. They would rather have an ET in a real classroom than a highly qualified IT on a screen.
1) Sure they will wait as long as possible until they can get someone in person to come who may very likely not be you. What else do you expect them to say? If they say anything else they might loose you because if the IS and leadership told you the truth you may withdraw your acceptance and move on and then they have no one.
2) You will be expected to work online way more than 6 hours. You just have to. The remote learning model you briefly described translates as small groups, and to accommodate all the students youll have to be online more with smaller groups. Its just simple math. If you have 100 students and you have a classroom that can accommodate 25 thats 4 classes. If your doing remote learning and your class sizes are "some kids" thats around 10 at best which means you have 10 classes. Normally you could play with the schedule if your IS is doing all remote learning. Do a flipped classroom and cut the classes to 20-30 minutes, but it sounds like this ISs is going to be doing a hybrid model meaning they have students in real classrooms with real hallways and if they have most of their ITs in place and its only you or a few others than they cant have your class done in 20 minutes and students just sitting there basically unsupervised.
Its all going to be fine, because whatever your issues are youre going to set them aside for what the IS needs. Thats what they will say. "Were really sorry and we know this isnt what anyone expected but this is how it needs to be" is going to be what you hear and by then its going to be to late to find another job. They know that without options youll do whatever they say until you dont and if you pull a runner its not like they cant find someone else to work online.
3) Theres no reduced workload. No one who has run an online class thinks its a reduced workload. If anything its more. Why should you get paid less? Designing and delivering a lesson for 10 students is the same work as designing and delivering one for 50 students.
Well its common practice in terms that a lot of ISs in Asia including China did it last year, but that doesnt make it a standard practice. You have a contract thats for a certain amount of coin to do a job. That your doing the job through a screen doesnt change the job. Are they still providing you a housing allowance or any of the other allowances that would be paid if you were arriving there in person. I would bet that you arent which means that 80% is actually a much bigger pay cut. Is any of this reduced pay stipulated in your current contract? If not than its just an IS making things up as they go along. Are they going to give you a supplemental contract for remote learning?
4) Well yeah theyre going to review again in August because they are still hoping they can find someone who can be there at the start of the ISs AY. Thats really all theyre doing is saying what they need to say to keep you from bolting. None of this is in a contract, and even if it was how would you enforce it considering you cant get in the country. They are just promising you whatever they have to to keep you on the line and from bolting.
5) Youre HOS is confusing confidence with hope. Unless they have a crystal ball, youre HOS is snorting pixie dust. Theres no more weight to their confidence than the person who buys a lottery ticket is confident theirs is the winner. It would be one thing if this was last year when nobody really knew anything, but this year everyone knows better or should know better. If an IS is opening for F2F learning they want all their ITs on site for F2F teaching. This means if an IS has a choice between you doing remote and a slightly warm body, they will take the slightly warm body in a classroom.
Should you insist on a new contract. Thats a big what if question. If you demand a new contract for remote learning are you going to accept it? Its very likely going to be for the 80% less and regardless of what the workload described is youre not going to be in a position to enforce it. Youre only option under this scenario is to quit. It doesnt matter if the contract says 6 hours of contact a day or 4 hours, or any number. Youre going to be expected to do however many hours they dictate or it takes. The contract will be worthless. The other problem is that if you accept a new remote learning contract what happens to the current contract? Are you basically giving up a lucrative on site IT contract for a remote teaching contract or do you have both contracts?
The whole your word is your bond only really works one way. Your word is your bond as an IT. Leadership can always say "it was in the best interests of the school and students" to excuse any behavior.
Leadership always tries to put themselves and the IS in the best light when describing a less than ideal exit of a previous member of the faculty. Im sure the previous It didnt fulfill all of their responsibilities and Im also reasonably sure that they didnt because the IS didnt fulfill all of their responsibilities.
I dont know what the subject is that your teaching but likely theres a pretty big mess of some type, but your going to be on a computer screen. If everyone else is in-person, youre basically going to be out of the loop on everything. That mess isnt one you literally arent stepping in because youre not there. Youre basically a digital substitute/relief IT until either A) the IS can bring you over before the mid year/winter break or B) they hire someone else.
If you run now, what are your options? It doesnt sound like you have any. You need to form a plan B and find another job assuming you keep this one on the line. This way you have a safety IS to go to if this one just gets worst or the new job is just infinitely better. If you dont withdraw your acceptance then what kind of supplemental or new contract are you looking for, with the understanding that being out of country means the contract isnt going to be worth anything that you can enforce.
You dont have to compensate them for anything. Its just fearmongering language meant to imply that leaving the IS is more expensive than it really is. The IS failed to provide you a work permit and/or visa you owe them nothing.
Theres nothing to really inquire about if your not going to pay them regardless of what they say. They cant force you to.
1) Sure they will wait as long as possible until they can get someone in person to come who may very likely not be you. What else do you expect them to say? If they say anything else they might loose you because if the IS and leadership told you the truth you may withdraw your acceptance and move on and then they have no one.
2) You will be expected to work online way more than 6 hours. You just have to. The remote learning model you briefly described translates as small groups, and to accommodate all the students youll have to be online more with smaller groups. Its just simple math. If you have 100 students and you have a classroom that can accommodate 25 thats 4 classes. If your doing remote learning and your class sizes are "some kids" thats around 10 at best which means you have 10 classes. Normally you could play with the schedule if your IS is doing all remote learning. Do a flipped classroom and cut the classes to 20-30 minutes, but it sounds like this ISs is going to be doing a hybrid model meaning they have students in real classrooms with real hallways and if they have most of their ITs in place and its only you or a few others than they cant have your class done in 20 minutes and students just sitting there basically unsupervised.
Its all going to be fine, because whatever your issues are youre going to set them aside for what the IS needs. Thats what they will say. "Were really sorry and we know this isnt what anyone expected but this is how it needs to be" is going to be what you hear and by then its going to be to late to find another job. They know that without options youll do whatever they say until you dont and if you pull a runner its not like they cant find someone else to work online.
3) Theres no reduced workload. No one who has run an online class thinks its a reduced workload. If anything its more. Why should you get paid less? Designing and delivering a lesson for 10 students is the same work as designing and delivering one for 50 students.
Well its common practice in terms that a lot of ISs in Asia including China did it last year, but that doesnt make it a standard practice. You have a contract thats for a certain amount of coin to do a job. That your doing the job through a screen doesnt change the job. Are they still providing you a housing allowance or any of the other allowances that would be paid if you were arriving there in person. I would bet that you arent which means that 80% is actually a much bigger pay cut. Is any of this reduced pay stipulated in your current contract? If not than its just an IS making things up as they go along. Are they going to give you a supplemental contract for remote learning?
4) Well yeah theyre going to review again in August because they are still hoping they can find someone who can be there at the start of the ISs AY. Thats really all theyre doing is saying what they need to say to keep you from bolting. None of this is in a contract, and even if it was how would you enforce it considering you cant get in the country. They are just promising you whatever they have to to keep you on the line and from bolting.
5) Youre HOS is confusing confidence with hope. Unless they have a crystal ball, youre HOS is snorting pixie dust. Theres no more weight to their confidence than the person who buys a lottery ticket is confident theirs is the winner. It would be one thing if this was last year when nobody really knew anything, but this year everyone knows better or should know better. If an IS is opening for F2F learning they want all their ITs on site for F2F teaching. This means if an IS has a choice between you doing remote and a slightly warm body, they will take the slightly warm body in a classroom.
Should you insist on a new contract. Thats a big what if question. If you demand a new contract for remote learning are you going to accept it? Its very likely going to be for the 80% less and regardless of what the workload described is youre not going to be in a position to enforce it. Youre only option under this scenario is to quit. It doesnt matter if the contract says 6 hours of contact a day or 4 hours, or any number. Youre going to be expected to do however many hours they dictate or it takes. The contract will be worthless. The other problem is that if you accept a new remote learning contract what happens to the current contract? Are you basically giving up a lucrative on site IT contract for a remote teaching contract or do you have both contracts?
The whole your word is your bond only really works one way. Your word is your bond as an IT. Leadership can always say "it was in the best interests of the school and students" to excuse any behavior.
Leadership always tries to put themselves and the IS in the best light when describing a less than ideal exit of a previous member of the faculty. Im sure the previous It didnt fulfill all of their responsibilities and Im also reasonably sure that they didnt because the IS didnt fulfill all of their responsibilities.
I dont know what the subject is that your teaching but likely theres a pretty big mess of some type, but your going to be on a computer screen. If everyone else is in-person, youre basically going to be out of the loop on everything. That mess isnt one you literally arent stepping in because youre not there. Youre basically a digital substitute/relief IT until either A) the IS can bring you over before the mid year/winter break or B) they hire someone else.
If you run now, what are your options? It doesnt sound like you have any. You need to form a plan B and find another job assuming you keep this one on the line. This way you have a safety IS to go to if this one just gets worst or the new job is just infinitely better. If you dont withdraw your acceptance then what kind of supplemental or new contract are you looking for, with the understanding that being out of country means the contract isnt going to be worth anything that you can enforce.
You dont have to compensate them for anything. Its just fearmongering language meant to imply that leaving the IS is more expensive than it really is. The IS failed to provide you a work permit and/or visa you owe them nothing.
Theres nothing to really inquire about if your not going to pay them regardless of what they say. They cant force you to.
-
Remymartin
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:38 pm
Re: Contract
Hi finedude and PsyGuy! Thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your perspectives and for highlighting some of the hard realities of the situation I am in. I do have the required PU and work permit letters that the school obtained and am just waiting for the visa policy to change and for the visa center to open here. I will be heading the LS program so it sounds like they really need someone to sort out the mess. Yes, it is possible it could be someone else but I guess since I don't have proof that they are looking for someone else, I am going to assume it is still me (may be I am being naive:). I am considering responding with a follow-up email thanking the HOS for his support and highlighting all the main discussion points so it is on record or I could ask that an addendum be attached to my present contract with the revised agreements. Good point about the housing allowance - there was no mention of that and I clearly didn't think to ask about that in the moment. Of course, everything remains to be seen and I will ascertain the situation more clearly in the next two to three weeks. If being out of the country means the contract isn't worth anything that can be enforced, then I am not going to worry too much about it. I definitely learnt the hard way last year about how meaningless the contract can be when the school chooses not to keep their word! I am preparing for the worst but I am hoping for the best! Thanks!
-
eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Contract
@Remymartin,
I'm in China right now. I've been here through the pandemic, though a lot of my colleagues were stuck outside when they tightened up the borders at the end of March 2020. While there was a brief period where teachers were able to enter China more easily from about September to November 2020, since late last year it's been very hard for international teachers to enter. There may be some who made it after, but it would be outliers. Lots of schools, even top ones, are having a hard time to find enough qualified people to teach. There have also been families who have left the country as international companies have reduced some of their staffing.
The issue is that schools don't know what's going to happen or if China will ease up restrictions for more people to come and go. It would be great if things really do open up in October, but no one at any school knows what's going to happen. Besides several Germans in business fields who have seemed to come and go, (In Germany they have good/quick access to testing and their country currently has relatively good political relations with China), it's not been easy for non-Chinese to enter China. And so far it looks like dependents of people with visas can't come, so lots of people with kids or spouses are not interested in returning on their own.
So international schools in China are in a bind. Schools that have full staff rosters have used this in their directed advertising against competitors in the same city. Lots of teachers have upgraded to better schools or found better roles in their current schools. The places with terrible pay and/or terrible administration/owners are having lots of trouble. So it's unlikely they'll find someone to replace you in country who will have an easier time entering. Although schools let people go when they needed to and sometimes without any notice or money to pay out contracts. People receiving less pay was fairly common when they were stuck out of the country.
I don't know if that helps, but there's a lot that is uncertain at this point. I think there many be a big exodus of teachers if there's not clear signs that coming and going from China will be possible by next summer or before.
Good luck.
Eion
I'm in China right now. I've been here through the pandemic, though a lot of my colleagues were stuck outside when they tightened up the borders at the end of March 2020. While there was a brief period where teachers were able to enter China more easily from about September to November 2020, since late last year it's been very hard for international teachers to enter. There may be some who made it after, but it would be outliers. Lots of schools, even top ones, are having a hard time to find enough qualified people to teach. There have also been families who have left the country as international companies have reduced some of their staffing.
The issue is that schools don't know what's going to happen or if China will ease up restrictions for more people to come and go. It would be great if things really do open up in October, but no one at any school knows what's going to happen. Besides several Germans in business fields who have seemed to come and go, (In Germany they have good/quick access to testing and their country currently has relatively good political relations with China), it's not been easy for non-Chinese to enter China. And so far it looks like dependents of people with visas can't come, so lots of people with kids or spouses are not interested in returning on their own.
So international schools in China are in a bind. Schools that have full staff rosters have used this in their directed advertising against competitors in the same city. Lots of teachers have upgraded to better schools or found better roles in their current schools. The places with terrible pay and/or terrible administration/owners are having lots of trouble. So it's unlikely they'll find someone to replace you in country who will have an easier time entering. Although schools let people go when they needed to and sometimes without any notice or money to pay out contracts. People receiving less pay was fairly common when they were stuck out of the country.
I don't know if that helps, but there's a lot that is uncertain at this point. I think there many be a big exodus of teachers if there's not clear signs that coming and going from China will be possible by next summer or before.
Good luck.
Eion
Re: Contract
I suspect your situation is far from unique this year.
My paperwork currently appears to be going nowhere, I am in regular contact with the school but whenever I ask the question about "what happens if...?" I get no response.
In a way, I fully understand it. If the school tells me they will have to cancel the contract at some point, they know I will have to start looking for work elsewhere and may accept another contract. I know they are doing the best for them in trying to keep their options open, but it's very frustrating.
I hope it works out for you, whatever.
My paperwork currently appears to be going nowhere, I am in regular contact with the school but whenever I ask the question about "what happens if...?" I get no response.
In a way, I fully understand it. If the school tells me they will have to cancel the contract at some point, they know I will have to start looking for work elsewhere and may accept another contract. I know they are doing the best for them in trying to keep their options open, but it's very frustrating.
I hope it works out for you, whatever.
Reply
@Remymartin
Strongly disagree with @eion_padraig. You have a PU letter which makes the difficulties and challenges of receiving the visa moot. Youre issue is physically being able to process the paperwork. An IS would have two general pathways to doing this. Processing the paperwork elsewhere either by flying you to a region that has an open consulate/embassy to apply, observing any necessary quarantine or much more easily using a rep with a processing company and doing it by mail, or finding someone else who likely is already in China or has easier access to a consulate. If an IS can get a PU letter for an IT they can much more easily change the individual. Youre IS isnt doing anything to process your visa, those PU letters are very valuable. Whats more likely, at least my coin is on it is they are looking for someone else still.
@clarita
If your IS can find someone locally they will very likely drop you in a heartbeat. Meanwhile are you content to let them call the shots and your livelihood at their discretion just because they are in a tough position. What about your job, your livelihood? Vacancies are just getting fewer and fewer.
Strongly disagree with @eion_padraig. You have a PU letter which makes the difficulties and challenges of receiving the visa moot. Youre issue is physically being able to process the paperwork. An IS would have two general pathways to doing this. Processing the paperwork elsewhere either by flying you to a region that has an open consulate/embassy to apply, observing any necessary quarantine or much more easily using a rep with a processing company and doing it by mail, or finding someone else who likely is already in China or has easier access to a consulate. If an IS can get a PU letter for an IT they can much more easily change the individual. Youre IS isnt doing anything to process your visa, those PU letters are very valuable. Whats more likely, at least my coin is on it is they are looking for someone else still.
@clarita
If your IS can find someone locally they will very likely drop you in a heartbeat. Meanwhile are you content to let them call the shots and your livelihood at their discretion just because they are in a tough position. What about your job, your livelihood? Vacancies are just getting fewer and fewer.
Re: Contract
If the school has influence, they could use it to open the visa office. I know of one school which had a number of staff in one particular location, all of whom had their PU letters but because of lockdown the local visa office was closed and they also couldn't travel to the one in the capital, which was open. So the school pulled some strings and kicked some butts - I think using parental influence, though nobody's quite sure - and the local office was reopened for one day only to process the visas.
Might be worth finding out if there's more than one new member of staff coming from that country.
Might be worth finding out if there's more than one new member of staff coming from that country.
Re: Contract
You’re presuming a school can force the government to bend to its will? Interesting.
I’m not denying that influence is a real thing, but it is in limited supply. Most schools don’t have it in sufficient supply to pull off such a feat, and those few who do must decide carefully how to “spend” their supply.
I’m not denying that influence is a real thing, but it is in limited supply. Most schools don’t have it in sufficient supply to pull off such a feat, and those few who do must decide carefully how to “spend” their supply.
Discussion
I fully concur with @Sid. Its not that such a scenario isnt possible, just incredibly rare an IS would have that degree of influence and choose to spend that political currency to open a visa processing center even for a day. Nothing surprises me in IE anymore, but I would not depend on that approach as my plan A.
-
Illiane_Blues
Re: Contract
Also agree with Sid, although Ive once taught at a school where the President's son was one of the students. Basically everything the school needed could be arranged through the President's wife who was chummy with the Head of School.
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1171
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Contract
Illiane_Blues wrote:
> Also agree with Sid, although Ive once taught at a school where the
> President's son was one of the students. Basically everything the school
> needed could be arranged through the President's wife who was chummy with
> the Head of School.
A long time ago a former HoD of mine taught a president's kids as well, but that just meant they had to accommodate those kids' (and their parents') wishes and allow them to misbehave, or suffer the consequences. The whole school tiptoed around those kids.
> Also agree with Sid, although Ive once taught at a school where the
> President's son was one of the students. Basically everything the school
> needed could be arranged through the President's wife who was chummy with
> the Head of School.
A long time ago a former HoD of mine taught a president's kids as well, but that just meant they had to accommodate those kids' (and their parents') wishes and allow them to misbehave, or suffer the consequences. The whole school tiptoed around those kids.
Re: Contract
It does cut both ways, doesn’t it?