Had a very rough pyp experience due to the coordinator.
We called it "pray you're prepared" because it was so fly by the seat of our pants, and we couldn't use any photocopies at all, nothing commercial prepared, all was spur of the moment based on what the kids questioned. Everything was whole language etc. Given the population that was under stimulated at home and ESL it didn't work.
Right now I do a modified 4 Blocks program with guided leveled reading.
My History and Science are pyp-ish but isn't always integrated into everything. I think I do a good job, work is differentiated, I get results.
Should I try pyp again, or would I be frustrated again?
pyp
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Traveller1
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:18 pm
Hi
The PYP appears to be a very mixed bag. I think the concept is great, and there are some really good people working within the system. Unfortunately it seems to attract a disproportionately large number of 'professionals' who come across as extremely self-serving, and style counts for substance. The individual who I am given to understand has just become the new Head of the PYP once tried to get his staff to complete the Self Study in one staff meeting. All the boxes were ticked by him and together with the PYP Coordinator wanted the staff to agree that the ticks were all in the right boxes. At that point he was the Primary Principal and 'managed' the event very tightly.
I'm interested to note that on another thread the issue of a 'doctored' Self Study has been raised by a PYP Coordinator who has been pressured by senior administrators in his/her school.
Because the PYP is so 'loose' you are at risk of being held hostage by whoever drives the process in your school. From your post it would seem that you've had first hand experience of just that. For all its philosophy and ideals the IBO appears to be a big cosy family and boat rockers aren't welcome.
The PYP appears to be a very mixed bag. I think the concept is great, and there are some really good people working within the system. Unfortunately it seems to attract a disproportionately large number of 'professionals' who come across as extremely self-serving, and style counts for substance. The individual who I am given to understand has just become the new Head of the PYP once tried to get his staff to complete the Self Study in one staff meeting. All the boxes were ticked by him and together with the PYP Coordinator wanted the staff to agree that the ticks were all in the right boxes. At that point he was the Primary Principal and 'managed' the event very tightly.
I'm interested to note that on another thread the issue of a 'doctored' Self Study has been raised by a PYP Coordinator who has been pressured by senior administrators in his/her school.
Because the PYP is so 'loose' you are at risk of being held hostage by whoever drives the process in your school. From your post it would seem that you've had first hand experience of just that. For all its philosophy and ideals the IBO appears to be a big cosy family and boat rockers aren't welcome.
I agree. I have avoided PYP entirely because I didn't know how to sift through all of them to determine which schools were dictatorial. With PYP being more and more popular our choices are becoming more limited.
We have elementary aged kids which adds to our list of "needs".
Frustrating!! I don't trust my instincts any longer.
We have elementary aged kids which adds to our list of "needs".
Frustrating!! I don't trust my instincts any longer.
Puka, I think your first sentence is what is so telling. I've been working within the MYP framework for two years. It was stressful learning something completely different after 22 years of teaching, but with the help of our coordinator, I've come to appreciate the flexibility and self-reflection involved with writing curriculum in the MYP. It seems our coordinator, who has been trained in international workshops, recognizes that flexibility and allows for quite a bit of individuality among the teachers.
I don't know the PYP, but looked at IBO's Web site. It seems problems will lie within the interpretation of any individual coordinator. I guess I've been really lucky.
That said, after so many years of teaching experience, I've learned to smile, nod my head, and give boneheaded admins what they want on paper, and I look like a team player. Then I close my classroom door and teach.
I don't know the PYP, but looked at IBO's Web site. It seems problems will lie within the interpretation of any individual coordinator. I guess I've been really lucky.
That said, after so many years of teaching experience, I've learned to smile, nod my head, and give boneheaded admins what they want on paper, and I look like a team player. Then I close my classroom door and teach.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
Dear Mike,
The fact that you have come onto a PYP thread to talk about the MYP speaks volumes. I am sure the MYP doesn't miss you too much. As I have said to you before...it is not a curriculum in a box, it is a programme for those who believe that delivering a holistic education takes more than just believing in it.
The fact that you have come onto a PYP thread to talk about the MYP speaks volumes. I am sure the MYP doesn't miss you too much. As I have said to you before...it is not a curriculum in a box, it is a programme for those who believe that delivering a holistic education takes more than just believing in it.
pyp/myp
Both are educationally unsound: Investigation, inquiry etc just for the sake of it, without a firm, rigorous foundation just leads nowhere. Same comment re holistic education - almost all our Western, technological advances have come through a specialised, reductionist approach; why should then an educational system go in the reverse direction? Oh, I know why; to appease the humanists that have taken the system so that "dummies" via grade inflation can pass and get into tertiary institutions that down grade legitimate degrees.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
dpurple,
I think you are thinking of technological advances as they USED to be...technology is moving so fast now because of the problem solving approach of individuals who are able to work across multiple disciplines. A genuinely holistic approach is simply a recognition of where subjects, knowledge and skills overlap - and build on these rather than ignoring them. By the way...your evidence of grade inflation would be? Doesn't happen in my school!
I think you are thinking of technological advances as they USED to be...technology is moving so fast now because of the problem solving approach of individuals who are able to work across multiple disciplines. A genuinely holistic approach is simply a recognition of where subjects, knowledge and skills overlap - and build on these rather than ignoring them. By the way...your evidence of grade inflation would be? Doesn't happen in my school!
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calciodirigore
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:16 pm
- Location: Europe
I can't speak for the PYP (heard decent things about it for the most part), but the MYP is a disgrace. How can the IBO create a program that is not aligned at all with the DP? It doesn't make any sense. The MYP does not prepare students adequately for the DP. I've worked with the MYP at 3 schools, two of which have dropped the program in the last 5 years. The third one still runs it, which is one of the reasons I'm leaving. If you teach the MYP and the DP, you'll notice how ineffective the former is.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
calciodirigore,
The latest comparative research shows MYP students outscoring those coming from other programmes. How do you explain that? I think you are correct in saying that the MYP as sometimes applied in schools is a disgrace. Unfortunately, secondary school teachers are traditionally not very good at working or planning together, especially outside of their own subject area. It does take a big mind shift and it is often the case that administrators are not very good at planning for, or supporting such change. However, when it is put together well it is simply a matter of good educational practice...
The latest comparative research shows MYP students outscoring those coming from other programmes. How do you explain that? I think you are correct in saying that the MYP as sometimes applied in schools is a disgrace. Unfortunately, secondary school teachers are traditionally not very good at working or planning together, especially outside of their own subject area. It does take a big mind shift and it is often the case that administrators are not very good at planning for, or supporting such change. However, when it is put together well it is simply a matter of good educational practice...
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
I should also add that the question of alignment is an unfortunate acceptance of reality. The Universities have yet to acknowledge that times have changed and that education needs to respond...and so we continue to provide them with what they want at college entry level. That does not mean that this should impact what is good practice beyond these years...
lifeisnotsobad,
It's a little hard to present an argument in a paragraph or two. While I agree with the principle of holistic education, after all, the boundaries are arbitrary and artificial, my point is that those people who "create" and "think outside the box" have firm foundations on established reductionist content, techniques and skills; something which is lacking in many students (and teachers for that matter).
Re grade inflation: my evidence comes from teaching in nine high schools in 6 countries over 25 years, including American, British, Australian and host country curricula and many discussions with my peers.
It's a little hard to present an argument in a paragraph or two. While I agree with the principle of holistic education, after all, the boundaries are arbitrary and artificial, my point is that those people who "create" and "think outside the box" have firm foundations on established reductionist content, techniques and skills; something which is lacking in many students (and teachers for that matter).
Re grade inflation: my evidence comes from teaching in nine high schools in 6 countries over 25 years, including American, British, Australian and host country curricula and many discussions with my peers.
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twinkletoes
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:13 am
Glad to contribute to this thread :)
I agree with most of the comments on this thread. I had an experience with PYP and similar to Puka, photocopying was looked down upon and the entire experience was simply too 'granola' for me.
I left a school due to the challenges that the co-ordinators faced with me as I didn't 'fit' the pyp profile of a teacher. In my opinion, it's best to stick with the basics such as learning to read, write, speak and do math.
Enrich your own life so you can share the rewarding experiences with your students. Not this so called pyp granola bs.
I agree with most of the comments on this thread. I had an experience with PYP and similar to Puka, photocopying was looked down upon and the entire experience was simply too 'granola' for me.
I left a school due to the challenges that the co-ordinators faced with me as I didn't 'fit' the pyp profile of a teacher. In my opinion, it's best to stick with the basics such as learning to read, write, speak and do math.
Enrich your own life so you can share the rewarding experiences with your students. Not this so called pyp granola bs.
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lifeisnotsobad
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm
Dear Twinkletoes,
My own children are currently in the PYP and they are learning to 'read, write, speak and do math' just wonderfully...along with exlore, question, challenge, connect, present and perhaps the most important of them all...empathise. I couldn't be more proud of them.
As to why you wouldn't have been teaching children to 'read, write, speak and do math' in your PYP school I have no idea. I suspect it would be a failing of the school rather than the programme.
My own children are currently in the PYP and they are learning to 'read, write, speak and do math' just wonderfully...along with exlore, question, challenge, connect, present and perhaps the most important of them all...empathise. I couldn't be more proud of them.
As to why you wouldn't have been teaching children to 'read, write, speak and do math' in your PYP school I have no idea. I suspect it would be a failing of the school rather than the programme.
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Traveller1
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:18 pm
When I left the PYP system the overlap between English, Maths and the PYP Inquiry units was partial. The overlap with English was probably stronger than Maths. Consequently I don't think it's fair to fully blame the PYP or to sing it's praises for the lack or strength of language and maths skills in students.
I believe that the theoretical basis for the PYP methodology is sound. As I mentioned above the quality of the academic programme at PYP schools can be undermined by inexperienced, ambitious, divisive, dishonest administrators.
I believe that the theoretical basis for the PYP methodology is sound. As I mentioned above the quality of the academic programme at PYP schools can be undermined by inexperienced, ambitious, divisive, dishonest administrators.