Hello,
I have been looking into teaching vacancies in the Middle East, and also China, Thailand, etc. It seems that many schools require a PGCE, or a degree specifically in education. I have a good UK master's degree in History, and I am wondering if there is any chance I can find a teaching job in the above areas. It seems unlikely, but it is hard to tell just by looking at ads. I am an EEA national, non-native English speaker. Any information would be appreciated.
Middle East/Asia options
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Middle East/Asia options
If you are interested in teaching, why don't you get a degree it become properly certified in K-12 Ed? I'm sorry, but the idea that people can just show up and be teachers without the proper qualifications drives me nuts.
Re: Middle East/Asia options
chilagringa wrote:
> If you are interested in teaching, why don't you get a degree it become
> properly certified in K-12 Ed? I'm sorry, but the idea that people can just
> show up and be teachers without the proper qualifications drives me nuts.
Actually, in many countries, degrees on the subject you want to teach are adequate qualification for secondary school teaching, and that is not unreasonable at all. What I want to know is if this is also true for a significant percentage of schools in the Middle East or not.
> If you are interested in teaching, why don't you get a degree it become
> properly certified in K-12 Ed? I'm sorry, but the idea that people can just
> show up and be teachers without the proper qualifications drives me nuts.
Actually, in many countries, degrees on the subject you want to teach are adequate qualification for secondary school teaching, and that is not unreasonable at all. What I want to know is if this is also true for a significant percentage of schools in the Middle East or not.
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Yes, I know. That is true where I teach. And, almost all of the lousy teachers are those without training. All the excellent local teachers I work with have degrees in education.
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higgsboson
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:13 am
Re: Middle East/Asia options
You don't really need a degree in education - you need a teacher license.
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Maybe, but that is not necessarily true, as you said yourself. I would consider getting a master's in education as well, if I decide I want to teach for the rest of my life, but for now I just want to know more about what options there are.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Hello Asv,
Yes, you can get hired on by schools in China without a PGCE/License/Credential/Education degree at this point in time. However, a lot of the more established schools and ones that pay more want their teachers to have one of the above qualifications. Especially with a field like history, which isn't a high need area, you may not find opportunities at very good schools.
This issue varies country to country and over time some countries that didn't require this in the past later may require it. I know some years back there was a shift in Singapore and there were current teachers at the school who were told they would lose their jobs if they didn't have one of the qualifications by the following year.
If you do start teaching and find you want to continue and move into better schools, then it may be a hassle to get the qualification without having to take time off. There are some low residency and online options, but they can be hard to work out. Sometimes schools only count your post-qualification teaching experience towards their salary scales.
Good luck.
Eion
Yes, you can get hired on by schools in China without a PGCE/License/Credential/Education degree at this point in time. However, a lot of the more established schools and ones that pay more want their teachers to have one of the above qualifications. Especially with a field like history, which isn't a high need area, you may not find opportunities at very good schools.
This issue varies country to country and over time some countries that didn't require this in the past later may require it. I know some years back there was a shift in Singapore and there were current teachers at the school who were told they would lose their jobs if they didn't have one of the qualifications by the following year.
If you do start teaching and find you want to continue and move into better schools, then it may be a hassle to get the qualification without having to take time off. There are some low residency and online options, but they can be hard to work out. Sometimes schools only count your post-qualification teaching experience towards their salary scales.
Good luck.
Eion
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Thanks. It is not that clear what they want in many cases. PGCE does not necessarily mean you also get QTS, but some schools seem to require a PGCE and others a QTS (though these may be the minority). I am also not sure if it is worth it for someone who is not a native English speaker, especially since I would not be a science teacher. But maybe that could be 'fixed' by getting a PGCE in primary training?
I think I read somewhere that online/distance degrees are rejected in the Middle East in most cases, otherwise it could be a good option for part-time.
I think I read somewhere that online/distance degrees are rejected in the Middle East in most cases, otherwise it could be a good option for part-time.
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Asv, frankly I think you'd be crazy to try teaching without training. It really isn't a job where you think "Oh, I fancy a go at that" and just walk into the classroom and all goes swimmingly. What do you do if the lesson you have prepared goes wrong mid-way? How do you deal with the child who just won't work for you but is fine elsewhere? When the headteacher says "you need more formative assessment" do you know what he means?
The other good reason - especially looking abroad - is that the best schools won't touch you. If you're happy with that, and just taking the cash, then it might be OK, but if you actually want to be any good at it then you need the training. Also, many countries require 2 years experience before you get a work visa - if a school is prepared to employ you without that, then you might have to risk living on a tourist visa rather than a work one.
The other good reason - especially looking abroad - is that the best schools won't touch you. If you're happy with that, and just taking the cash, then it might be OK, but if you actually want to be any good at it then you need the training. Also, many countries require 2 years experience before you get a work visa - if a school is prepared to employ you without that, then you might have to risk living on a tourist visa rather than a work one.
Re: Middle East/Asia options
I was thinking of trying to work somewhere in the ME or China, starting January, to get an idea of what it could be like, and possibly try to get into a PGCE next year, depending on how I feel about it. But it is hard to decide without knowing more on the matter, and it is not that easy to find information online.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Yeah, this is one of the better places for information and it's still not great at times.
January is not an ideal time to start at international schools as the school year starts in August/September and runs through May/June. However, there are certainly openings, especially when teachers pull a runner and don't return from Christmas break.
I'm less familiar with online PGCE programs, than US credential/licensure programs. I've know people who've done programs in Australia too. You probably want to talk with people working at UK patterned schools as they're more likely to be familiar with the options. There are some of those people around here, but there are other more UK centric forums too.
Eion
January is not an ideal time to start at international schools as the school year starts in August/September and runs through May/June. However, there are certainly openings, especially when teachers pull a runner and don't return from Christmas break.
I'm less familiar with online PGCE programs, than US credential/licensure programs. I've know people who've done programs in Australia too. You probably want to talk with people working at UK patterned schools as they're more likely to be familiar with the options. There are some of those people around here, but there are other more UK centric forums too.
Eion
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Thanks, I was just reading about ways of getting qualified in another thread here (American or Brit Certification/Credential for non-citizens).
I am not entirely sure if I am looking for job openings the right way. So far I have looked at different websites with job vacancies and made a few applications but haven't found many suitable positions. How long does it take on average to hear back from a school (assuming they are considering hiring you)? I have heard of agencies being mentioned here, but these seem to be for people who already have QTS or equivalent.
I am not entirely sure if I am looking for job openings the right way. So far I have looked at different websites with job vacancies and made a few applications but haven't found many suitable positions. How long does it take on average to hear back from a school (assuming they are considering hiring you)? I have heard of agencies being mentioned here, but these seem to be for people who already have QTS or equivalent.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Middle East/Asia options
If you are not a certified teacher, Saudi won't let you in to teach. If you are going in to teach at a school, it means they are not bringing you in as a teacher - more likely a tourist. That means you have ZERO rights, no medical, no bank privileges, etc.
Re: Middle East/Asia options
One important questions is, do you think that as a non-native English speaker, and a non-science/maths teacher, there is any point trying to get into international schools teaching?
Re: Middle East/Asia options
Asv,
My opinion is much the same as the current ideas posted in here, which I feel isn´t the advice you were hoping for.
Can you get a job in China without a teaching certification? Yes. Will you be in a good school? No. Will you be paid well? Almost certainly not. Will you have medical insurance, flights back home, and other benefits? Unlikely. The less qualified you are, the lower quality job you will have, and, honestly, some of these jobs are absolute shit.
What is likely to happen is that you finally manage to make contact with a school that seems interested and offers you a job and initially you are elated. Then you arrive at the school and find it is hardly an international school, but more of a bilingual school where you have essentially been hired to teach ESL through the medium of history. The subject takes a backseat to the language. You will probably find your admin gives a shit about no-one other than their board of directors, and you will almost certainly be in a toxic work environment with a bunch of expats who are working there because they can´t handle working a job back at home or at a highly-achieving school elsewhere.
Of course, you might find a good job in a good school. It does happen. But it´s very, very rare.
I also agree with other posters that teaching is not the same thing as having expert subject knowledge. In my NQT year (Scottish version of QTS year) there were about 35 of us trying to complete our first year. All of us had completed a PGDE. I think 8 or 9 dropped out halfway through the year because they found teaching too demanding. The following year, we had a guy on placement who had a BA and MA history. He failed his placement because he had no classroom management, couldn´t structure a lesson, and couldn´t understand the difference between being a subject expert and being a teaching expert.
I am NOT a subject expert, but I am a decent teacher. I am good at getting students to understand the content at their level, and I have reasonable classroom control. I can connect with students and have a good relationship with almost all of them. I know when to pick a fight and when to let it go. My classroom is generally productive. However, if you ask me about my subject at a level higher than high-school and general knowledge picked up through reading and news, I cannot compete. I couldn´t be a university lecturer, for example. Luckily for me, that´s not important for what I have been hired to do. My point is that you are clearly super well educated, and you could explain high school history courses with ease - but teaching is so much more than explaining. I see it almost as a mix of acting and policing.
You really need to get some significant teaching practice before taking on a job like this. You need to have a mentor teacher who can show you the ropes, and who you can observe and understand what they do well and where they fall. You need to have your confidence shattered repeatedly by a bunch of savage adolescents, and you need to create lessons that fail, and try over and over again to get those lessons right. Lots of teachers find teaching reasonably straightforward most of the time, but that comes through experience. The majority of us find it difficult every single day, even after years of failing and improving and watching and trying again. Please do not take this lightly - you may well be very unhappy, and, honestly, your students deserve better.
Quickest way to do this - the University of Sunderland has an online iPGCE you can do, but my understanding of that is that it´s bare bones, and obviously doesn´t include any in-classroom experience, which is the absolute most important part of this. Most people recommend doing a teaching qual in your home country and two years of domestic teaching before looking abroad.
My opinion is much the same as the current ideas posted in here, which I feel isn´t the advice you were hoping for.
Can you get a job in China without a teaching certification? Yes. Will you be in a good school? No. Will you be paid well? Almost certainly not. Will you have medical insurance, flights back home, and other benefits? Unlikely. The less qualified you are, the lower quality job you will have, and, honestly, some of these jobs are absolute shit.
What is likely to happen is that you finally manage to make contact with a school that seems interested and offers you a job and initially you are elated. Then you arrive at the school and find it is hardly an international school, but more of a bilingual school where you have essentially been hired to teach ESL through the medium of history. The subject takes a backseat to the language. You will probably find your admin gives a shit about no-one other than their board of directors, and you will almost certainly be in a toxic work environment with a bunch of expats who are working there because they can´t handle working a job back at home or at a highly-achieving school elsewhere.
Of course, you might find a good job in a good school. It does happen. But it´s very, very rare.
I also agree with other posters that teaching is not the same thing as having expert subject knowledge. In my NQT year (Scottish version of QTS year) there were about 35 of us trying to complete our first year. All of us had completed a PGDE. I think 8 or 9 dropped out halfway through the year because they found teaching too demanding. The following year, we had a guy on placement who had a BA and MA history. He failed his placement because he had no classroom management, couldn´t structure a lesson, and couldn´t understand the difference between being a subject expert and being a teaching expert.
I am NOT a subject expert, but I am a decent teacher. I am good at getting students to understand the content at their level, and I have reasonable classroom control. I can connect with students and have a good relationship with almost all of them. I know when to pick a fight and when to let it go. My classroom is generally productive. However, if you ask me about my subject at a level higher than high-school and general knowledge picked up through reading and news, I cannot compete. I couldn´t be a university lecturer, for example. Luckily for me, that´s not important for what I have been hired to do. My point is that you are clearly super well educated, and you could explain high school history courses with ease - but teaching is so much more than explaining. I see it almost as a mix of acting and policing.
You really need to get some significant teaching practice before taking on a job like this. You need to have a mentor teacher who can show you the ropes, and who you can observe and understand what they do well and where they fall. You need to have your confidence shattered repeatedly by a bunch of savage adolescents, and you need to create lessons that fail, and try over and over again to get those lessons right. Lots of teachers find teaching reasonably straightforward most of the time, but that comes through experience. The majority of us find it difficult every single day, even after years of failing and improving and watching and trying again. Please do not take this lightly - you may well be very unhappy, and, honestly, your students deserve better.
Quickest way to do this - the University of Sunderland has an online iPGCE you can do, but my understanding of that is that it´s bare bones, and obviously doesn´t include any in-classroom experience, which is the absolute most important part of this. Most people recommend doing a teaching qual in your home country and two years of domestic teaching before looking abroad.