I'm looking to recruit this year after 3 years at my current school - 5 total years overseas now.
This is my 3rd school overseas and I never used Search or ISS to find any of those jobs. I mostly used TIE and applied directly, interviewed over Skype and got hired that way.
This time I think it would be a better idea for me to sign up with Search or ISS for my recruiting needs. However, I am not sure which one to go with, but I know I need to get on it ASAP. I feel like I have heard much more positive reviews of ISS than Search. I also like that they have these new iFairs. I'd really like to not have to go to a fair. I hear too many stories of people going and not getting jobs...and I just don't like the idea of having to spend so much money to get a job.
Thoughts? Anyone done both and prefer one over the other?
ISS or Search
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: ISS or Search
If you aren't looking for a fair, you are really using the database--both as a place for schools to look at you and as a place for you to access openings. So you will want to look at which has the better database, and that would probably be Search. I have used both, though I haven't used ISS in years, and I liked the Search system better. I also think more schools actively use each. However, my caution would be that unless you have some crazy thing on your resume, you are not going to be plucked out from the database. You will be able to put everything online, but the work will still be up to you. You will need to contact schools (the database will tell you what jobs they have posted, but you may want to contact schools you really like even if they don't have openings). The database can also help a bit with finding contact information, but don't contact schools through the database. Go through private applications or whatever system the school prefers on their HR website. It is okay to mention that your information and references are on the database so the school can look at your confidential recommendations if they like you, etc.
So look at which schools and regions you are targeting, look at where they are listed, look at where they actively recruit, and decide which database they use more heavily. Then use that database. Search is known for that feature, but of course ISS is probably not that different these days, so maybe someone who has used their service more recently can chime in on their system.
I haven't used some of the others (TIE, etc.), so if they have good databases, there may be no need for the more expensive agencies. If you are aggressive with independent applications, you probably don't need an agency except to park your references, etc.
So look at which schools and regions you are targeting, look at where they are listed, look at where they actively recruit, and decide which database they use more heavily. Then use that database. Search is known for that feature, but of course ISS is probably not that different these days, so maybe someone who has used their service more recently can chime in on their system.
I haven't used some of the others (TIE, etc.), so if they have good databases, there may be no need for the more expensive agencies. If you are aggressive with independent applications, you probably don't need an agency except to park your references, etc.
Re: ISS or Search
lemon lily,
If the money is not too much, I would encourage you to sign up with both. While many schools use both, there are a good number that only use one or the other. Signing up with both would increase your exposure.
It is a bit of pain for your references to do two forms, but they only take a few minutes to complete.
If you only went with one, I would go with Search, they have more schools.
If the money is not too much, I would encourage you to sign up with both. While many schools use both, there are a good number that only use one or the other. Signing up with both would increase your exposure.
It is a bit of pain for your references to do two forms, but they only take a few minutes to complete.
If you only went with one, I would go with Search, they have more schools.
Response
First, iFairs are not really fairs, they are messaging and a web page. If you remember the old AOL chat rooms, and add some web design or second life without the 3D graphics its kind of like that. There is a room (again kind of like an AOL chat-room) that has a room limit of 2, you and the recruiter. When its your turn you enter the chat room, and you type messages to one another. The recruiter uses a script that they basically cut and paste from, and smart candidates use a generic script that answers common questions. If the exchange works for the recruiter THEN you set up a separate Skype interview. Otherwise its really LinkedIn with a chat client.
Whats your teaching area and what do you want out of recruiting?
I ask because it doesnt sound like you need to do anything else, and you really dont want the cost of a premium agency. Youve been successful with TIE, so what else do you want? If your interest in IS tier and location hasnt significantly changed and you really dont want to go to a fair, than SA and ISS are going to show you a lot of the same ISs that list vacancies with TIE, unless this is the year your looking to expand your applications to a larger volume of upper tier ISs, and your willing to do a fair, joining a premium agency isnt going to do much for you.
SA is a lot like a general service agency. No one is particularly special, and everyone gets about the same level of attention. It has to do with how SA structures their revenue generation. Some associates are better than other, but you generally get access to the database, and invite and a few answers to questions. Theyre kind of like Ikea, modern, generic, and you have to do the work yourself.
ISS is more like a boutique and in that regard its feast or famine, you are either a high value candidate and get a lot of attention and assistance or you are a low value candidate and you get ignored. SA has more ISs, but more of those ISs are low tier ISs, ISS has fewer ISs but a higher concentration of upper tier ISs. The ISS BKK fair is before the BKK SA fair, but you would have to have first night preferred candidate status for it to mean anything.
Its uncommon for an IS to actively pursue and contact candidates outside of the fairs. What you find are bottom third tier ISs that message everyone with a long list of vacancies. You need to be closer to a superstar IT before your regularly being approached by upper tier ISs.
Its inadvisable to contact an IS though the agency messaging system, but you would be well advised to contact them with your application packet by regular email as well. Always follow the instructions in the vacancy post.
I would not recommend both agencies, it will be a lot of duplication, its not worth it for the possible handful of vacancies you can apply for directly. Exposure isnt really an issue, upper tier ISs dont actively search for cold candidates, unless your a superstar IT.
@Thames Pirate
TIE allows you to park confidential references as well.
Whats your teaching area and what do you want out of recruiting?
I ask because it doesnt sound like you need to do anything else, and you really dont want the cost of a premium agency. Youve been successful with TIE, so what else do you want? If your interest in IS tier and location hasnt significantly changed and you really dont want to go to a fair, than SA and ISS are going to show you a lot of the same ISs that list vacancies with TIE, unless this is the year your looking to expand your applications to a larger volume of upper tier ISs, and your willing to do a fair, joining a premium agency isnt going to do much for you.
SA is a lot like a general service agency. No one is particularly special, and everyone gets about the same level of attention. It has to do with how SA structures their revenue generation. Some associates are better than other, but you generally get access to the database, and invite and a few answers to questions. Theyre kind of like Ikea, modern, generic, and you have to do the work yourself.
ISS is more like a boutique and in that regard its feast or famine, you are either a high value candidate and get a lot of attention and assistance or you are a low value candidate and you get ignored. SA has more ISs, but more of those ISs are low tier ISs, ISS has fewer ISs but a higher concentration of upper tier ISs. The ISS BKK fair is before the BKK SA fair, but you would have to have first night preferred candidate status for it to mean anything.
Its uncommon for an IS to actively pursue and contact candidates outside of the fairs. What you find are bottom third tier ISs that message everyone with a long list of vacancies. You need to be closer to a superstar IT before your regularly being approached by upper tier ISs.
Its inadvisable to contact an IS though the agency messaging system, but you would be well advised to contact them with your application packet by regular email as well. Always follow the instructions in the vacancy post.
I would not recommend both agencies, it will be a lot of duplication, its not worth it for the possible handful of vacancies you can apply for directly. Exposure isnt really an issue, upper tier ISs dont actively search for cold candidates, unless your a superstar IT.
@Thames Pirate
TIE allows you to park confidential references as well.
Re: Response
PsyGuy wrote:
> Its inadvisable to contact an IS though the agency messaging system, but
> you would be well advised to contact them with your application packet by
> regular email as well. Always follow the instructions in the vacancy post.
Why would it be inadvisable to contact a school through Search? Are you suggesting a teacher should find out about a vacancy on Search, then contact the IS directly through the IS's website? What's the difference?
> Its inadvisable to contact an IS though the agency messaging system, but
> you would be well advised to contact them with your application packet by
> regular email as well. Always follow the instructions in the vacancy post.
Why would it be inadvisable to contact a school through Search? Are you suggesting a teacher should find out about a vacancy on Search, then contact the IS directly through the IS's website? What's the difference?
Reply
@joe30
Yes, when you apply for a vacancy from SA you fill out the text message portion and the IS receives an email with a link to your profile. They then have to login to access your profile and review your documents. Applying outside of SA directly allows the IS to have all your documents and application materials directly. Candidates dont get reviewed one at a time as applications come in. They go into a pool and someone on the staff has organizes all of them as they go through the screening process to build the short list. Using SA means printing and/or organizing all of those SA data.
Yes, when you apply for a vacancy from SA you fill out the text message portion and the IS receives an email with a link to your profile. They then have to login to access your profile and review your documents. Applying outside of SA directly allows the IS to have all your documents and application materials directly. Candidates dont get reviewed one at a time as applications come in. They go into a pool and someone on the staff has organizes all of them as they go through the screening process to build the short list. Using SA means printing and/or organizing all of those SA data.
Re: ISS or Search
@PsyGuy
So you're saying essentially if someone applies through SA (and only SA), then the guy responsible for making the shortlist might not make the effort to look at the SA applications if they have enough quality 'direct' applications?
This leads to another question. Let's say I see a vacancy on SA, but apply directly with the school. How does SA ensure they get their payment? I'm assuming there's got to be some way they do it or they'd be losing out on tons of cash.
So you're saying essentially if someone applies through SA (and only SA), then the guy responsible for making the shortlist might not make the effort to look at the SA applications if they have enough quality 'direct' applications?
This leads to another question. Let's say I see a vacancy on SA, but apply directly with the school. How does SA ensure they get their payment? I'm assuming there's got to be some way they do it or they'd be losing out on tons of cash.
Reply
@joe30
It would be more accurate to ask how much responsibility for your success do you want to put in someone elses hands? All those SA profile printouts start to look the same very quickly.
They ask, but most of its just trust. When you notify your associate that your closing your profile and that youve been hired you get an email congratulating you on your new job and to confirm who hired you. A similar process occurs for ISs, once a vacancy has been created and closes.
It does happen though, a recruiter will ask you not to close your profile, and they just close the vacancy using a non-invoiced option. ISs can create one vacancy announcement when they are actually recruiting for multiple positions. There are a number of ways a recruiter can reduce their invoiced fees.
It would be more accurate to ask how much responsibility for your success do you want to put in someone elses hands? All those SA profile printouts start to look the same very quickly.
They ask, but most of its just trust. When you notify your associate that your closing your profile and that youve been hired you get an email congratulating you on your new job and to confirm who hired you. A similar process occurs for ISs, once a vacancy has been created and closes.
It does happen though, a recruiter will ask you not to close your profile, and they just close the vacancy using a non-invoiced option. ISs can create one vacancy announcement when they are actually recruiting for multiple positions. There are a number of ways a recruiter can reduce their invoiced fees.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @joe30
>
> It would be more accurate to ask how much responsibility for your success
> do you want to put in someone elses hands? All those SA profile printouts
> start to look the same very quickly.
>
> They ask, but most of its just trust. When you notify your associate that
> your closing your profile and that youve been hired you get an email
> congratulating you on your new job and to confirm who hired you. A similar
> process occurs for ISs, once a vacancy has been created and closes.
> It does happen though, a recruiter will ask you not to close your profile,
> and they just close the vacancy using a non-invoiced option. ISs can
> create one vacancy announcement when they are actually recruiting for
> multiple positions. There are a number of ways a recruiter can reduce their
> invoiced fees.
unless specified by the school, if i notice a vacancy at a school i'm interested in on search, i will compile my docs in a pdf and send it off to the school.
in my opinion, the main selling point of search is the database. so that's what i'm paying for. and if it's a school i like, i'll contact them. hopefully they'll be thankful for not having to pay search a load of money for essentially being the kijiji or craigslist of international education.
sometimes the schools want it like that though. in those cases, i only apply through search (or schrole, or whatever) since doing something different is not what the school wants.
good luck!
v.
> @joe30
>
> It would be more accurate to ask how much responsibility for your success
> do you want to put in someone elses hands? All those SA profile printouts
> start to look the same very quickly.
>
> They ask, but most of its just trust. When you notify your associate that
> your closing your profile and that youve been hired you get an email
> congratulating you on your new job and to confirm who hired you. A similar
> process occurs for ISs, once a vacancy has been created and closes.
> It does happen though, a recruiter will ask you not to close your profile,
> and they just close the vacancy using a non-invoiced option. ISs can
> create one vacancy announcement when they are actually recruiting for
> multiple positions. There are a number of ways a recruiter can reduce their
> invoiced fees.
unless specified by the school, if i notice a vacancy at a school i'm interested in on search, i will compile my docs in a pdf and send it off to the school.
in my opinion, the main selling point of search is the database. so that's what i'm paying for. and if it's a school i like, i'll contact them. hopefully they'll be thankful for not having to pay search a load of money for essentially being the kijiji or craigslist of international education.
sometimes the schools want it like that though. in those cases, i only apply through search (or schrole, or whatever) since doing something different is not what the school wants.
good luck!
v.
Discussion
@vandsmith
Thats not technically effective. Regardless how an IS and IT find each other if its a repped IT and IS, the placement is still invoiced. In general an associate will waive or discount a placement if there was more than an arms length distance, but even something as simple as checking confidential references in a candidates profile would constitute consultancy and the requisite fee.
This is common enough that associates just factor a certain degree of shrinkage into their revenue tables. Its almost a coefficient, a recruiter with 5 (or X) non-fair placements in a recruiting cycle will receive a memo about one of them and will discount one of the placements and invoice for 4. It keeps everyone happy.
Thats not technically effective. Regardless how an IS and IT find each other if its a repped IT and IS, the placement is still invoiced. In general an associate will waive or discount a placement if there was more than an arms length distance, but even something as simple as checking confidential references in a candidates profile would constitute consultancy and the requisite fee.
This is common enough that associates just factor a certain degree of shrinkage into their revenue tables. Its almost a coefficient, a recruiter with 5 (or X) non-fair placements in a recruiting cycle will receive a memo about one of them and will discount one of the placements and invoice for 4. It keeps everyone happy.
Re: ISS or Search
@Thames Pirate
Was Zurich IS your top pick?
Was Zurich IS your top pick?
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: ISS or Search
No, though it was on our list (not the absolute short list/top 5, though).
Re: ISS or Search
Then it should be either AS Hague or Vienna IS.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: ISS or Search
Not sure why you insist on knowing, but I am not willing for you to just play a guessing game and out my location when that is nobody's business. I gave you one, and I will neither confirm nor deny any others. Also, what lists are you looking at? This year's or last year's? Also, I know of at least one school that isn't on last year's London list that was actually at the fair. So you can play the guessing game, but all I will confirm is that our top pick was not Zurich.