@sid
No, CIS would not be surprised to hear this, the forum membership have discussed what accreditation is in the past (though not anytime recently), their list of ISs is nothing more than a membership list. A group of administrators/managers that verify an IS is doing what the IS is claiming they are doing. If those two concepts are congruent CIS lets them join their club.
@Lastname_Z
Im not convinced that the annual length of instruction for a a CAN provincial authority is different from a US state or other local authority to set the length of the academic calendar?
WASC in the US doesnt set a minimum number of days of instruction, but the CDE (California Department of Education) mandates the minimum instructional days that the local authority must have.
Shorter Year than 180 Days
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
@dave I guess you weren’t fired for lack of ego. Roll of thunder. CIS Accreditation is a myth. The Forum Membership has spoken. Vox populi, vox dei.
As I recall, the last time the CIS issue was raised, it was you against everyone else – again. Notionally, up to the 8th Edition, the CIS Accreditation protocol was a joint venture with NEASC. Fact is, 90% of the work was done at the CIS end. When a school is jointly accredited – with NEASC, WASC or Middle States – it is this Accreditation protocol that is used, and the Visiting Team Chair is from CIS. CIS insists this is so. Why do schools ask for joint Accreditation? The most common reason is that they recognize the CIS protocol and process is more rigorous. Quite a lot of schools, though, simply choose the single accrediting agency of CIS. It works in exactly the same way as accreditation from any of the US-based agencies. The latest edition of the CIS protocol is different, since it is 100% a CIS production, and NEASC is no longer committing to use this. The next few years of accrediting international schools may be more cantankerous than used to be the case.
As for your line about “…their list of ISs is nothing more than a membership list. A group of administrators/managers that verify an IS is doing what the IS is claiming they are doing…”, how do you think WASC or NEASC or MSAC works? The system is the same: a Visiting Team comprising teachers and administrators verifies the self-study report prepared by the school’s faculty and administrators.
Dave, I do wish you’d focus on how wannabe teachers can acquire professional status in Somalia or Aruba. This is where your strength lies. Do what you do best!
As I recall, the last time the CIS issue was raised, it was you against everyone else – again. Notionally, up to the 8th Edition, the CIS Accreditation protocol was a joint venture with NEASC. Fact is, 90% of the work was done at the CIS end. When a school is jointly accredited – with NEASC, WASC or Middle States – it is this Accreditation protocol that is used, and the Visiting Team Chair is from CIS. CIS insists this is so. Why do schools ask for joint Accreditation? The most common reason is that they recognize the CIS protocol and process is more rigorous. Quite a lot of schools, though, simply choose the single accrediting agency of CIS. It works in exactly the same way as accreditation from any of the US-based agencies. The latest edition of the CIS protocol is different, since it is 100% a CIS production, and NEASC is no longer committing to use this. The next few years of accrediting international schools may be more cantankerous than used to be the case.
As for your line about “…their list of ISs is nothing more than a membership list. A group of administrators/managers that verify an IS is doing what the IS is claiming they are doing…”, how do you think WASC or NEASC or MSAC works? The system is the same: a Visiting Team comprising teachers and administrators verifies the self-study report prepared by the school’s faculty and administrators.
Dave, I do wish you’d focus on how wannabe teachers can acquire professional status in Somalia or Aruba. This is where your strength lies. Do what you do best!
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Dredge
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:25 pm
- Location: Three continents, mentally and physically
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
@Walter
I can get certified in Somalia!?!! SWEET!
I can get certified in Somalia!?!! SWEET!
Reply
@Walter
Still dont know what you think you know. No it was myself and the league of PsyGuy nemesis. It was a small group of leadership that wanted to defend their club membership.
This is the same response and claims you made last time. Yes, 90% of the work was done by CIS, thats what minions are for, the important remaining 10% the actual accreditation process was done by the regional accrediting agency.
CIS couldnt insist on the time of day while standing under a clock. No one needs CIS accreditation to accredit anything. There is no such thing as a CIS diploma, and no IS needs CIS accreditation to issue one. You need IB authorization to issue an IB Baccalaureate Diploma.
No, they ask for joint accreditation because it is time and resource efficient, there isnt anything more rigorous about the CIS process.
ISs choose CIS because its not accreditation, its verification, there is not standard criterion with CIS, its measuring if an IS is doing what they claim to be doing. Having CIS validation at one IS doesnt mean that the IS down the street or across the city or the country or the globe share the same standards.
This isnt anything new, NEASC was happy to delegate CIS to their minion role, and CIS wanted a bigger piece that NEASC was never going to give them.
The system is not the same, things change in 30 years. US, UK, IB, systems have shared criterion standards. An inspected BS with outstanding is of at least the same quality as any other BS that is rated outstanding. The same is true for IB Authorization and US (or CAN/AUS) accreditation. Just because CIS uses the same terms and language and their process "looks" similar doesnt mean it accomplishes the same goal.
Again if you find this difficult to understand you can reference the excerpt here:
www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=2735
"The Standards do not pre-suppose any specific model of excellence nor do they seek to impose the methods of one school upon another. The underlying principle of this process is that a school will be evaluated in terms of its own Guiding Statements. (i.e. Does the school deliver what it claims to deliver to its students?)
Further the 2016 International Accreditation process:
www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=2734
"It is fully and entirely developed by CIS, reflecting our mission, values, uniquely international and diverse membership and our Code of Ethics".
Emphasis on "OUR", its what a group of retired leadership and consulting academics think is important to join their club. CIS has no regulatory authority.
@Dredge
It would be very difficult to receive professional educator recognition in Somalia. Your degree would need to be accepted by a University (and thats unlikely with anything accept a B.Ed or M.Ed) you would then need to successfully pass the exam which isnt available in English, and lastly complete indoctrination as a member of the Islamic faith.
OR you could probably find some University admin officer who could make the whole issue happen for a few hundred $USD.
Credentialing in Aruba is straightforward, its the same process and standards for the MOE of the Netherlands. ITs from US/AUS/CAN (and under different processes the UK) may apply for a Dutch Teaching Qualification through mutual recognition. The process consists of an application, degrees, transcripts, and professional teaching certificate copies. There is no fee for the recognition process. The time for issuance is about 8 weeks.
You may receive either a level 2 credential which includes primary and/or lower secondary or a level 1 credential which includes primary and/or all secondary. You can receive a level 2 credential if you have a general education academic preparation. The level 1 credential is typically subject specific and requires completion of an undergraduate degree or major in the teaching subject.
Still dont know what you think you know. No it was myself and the league of PsyGuy nemesis. It was a small group of leadership that wanted to defend their club membership.
This is the same response and claims you made last time. Yes, 90% of the work was done by CIS, thats what minions are for, the important remaining 10% the actual accreditation process was done by the regional accrediting agency.
CIS couldnt insist on the time of day while standing under a clock. No one needs CIS accreditation to accredit anything. There is no such thing as a CIS diploma, and no IS needs CIS accreditation to issue one. You need IB authorization to issue an IB Baccalaureate Diploma.
No, they ask for joint accreditation because it is time and resource efficient, there isnt anything more rigorous about the CIS process.
ISs choose CIS because its not accreditation, its verification, there is not standard criterion with CIS, its measuring if an IS is doing what they claim to be doing. Having CIS validation at one IS doesnt mean that the IS down the street or across the city or the country or the globe share the same standards.
This isnt anything new, NEASC was happy to delegate CIS to their minion role, and CIS wanted a bigger piece that NEASC was never going to give them.
The system is not the same, things change in 30 years. US, UK, IB, systems have shared criterion standards. An inspected BS with outstanding is of at least the same quality as any other BS that is rated outstanding. The same is true for IB Authorization and US (or CAN/AUS) accreditation. Just because CIS uses the same terms and language and their process "looks" similar doesnt mean it accomplishes the same goal.
Again if you find this difficult to understand you can reference the excerpt here:
www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=2735
"The Standards do not pre-suppose any specific model of excellence nor do they seek to impose the methods of one school upon another. The underlying principle of this process is that a school will be evaluated in terms of its own Guiding Statements. (i.e. Does the school deliver what it claims to deliver to its students?)
Further the 2016 International Accreditation process:
www.cois.org/page.cfm?p=2734
"It is fully and entirely developed by CIS, reflecting our mission, values, uniquely international and diverse membership and our Code of Ethics".
Emphasis on "OUR", its what a group of retired leadership and consulting academics think is important to join their club. CIS has no regulatory authority.
@Dredge
It would be very difficult to receive professional educator recognition in Somalia. Your degree would need to be accepted by a University (and thats unlikely with anything accept a B.Ed or M.Ed) you would then need to successfully pass the exam which isnt available in English, and lastly complete indoctrination as a member of the Islamic faith.
OR you could probably find some University admin officer who could make the whole issue happen for a few hundred $USD.
Credentialing in Aruba is straightforward, its the same process and standards for the MOE of the Netherlands. ITs from US/AUS/CAN (and under different processes the UK) may apply for a Dutch Teaching Qualification through mutual recognition. The process consists of an application, degrees, transcripts, and professional teaching certificate copies. There is no fee for the recognition process. The time for issuance is about 8 weeks.
You may receive either a level 2 credential which includes primary and/or lower secondary or a level 1 credential which includes primary and/or all secondary. You can receive a level 2 credential if you have a general education academic preparation. The level 1 credential is typically subject specific and requires completion of an undergraduate degree or major in the teaching subject.
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
I think we can all agree that PG has strong views on the subject of CIS accreditation. I posit we can further agree he is in a teeny tiny minority of people who think as he does.
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Lastname_Z
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 12:17 pm
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
sid wrote:
> Thanks lastname. How many, and what qualifies as a day?
>
> If memory serves, the 180 day thing is related to the Carnegie Unit, but I
> don't remember how. Probably all ties back to agrarian practices, as Dredge
> says.
I'm not sure how many days are needed to be honest, but I do know that PD and Exam periods do qualify as days. It's not just exam periods.
> Thanks lastname. How many, and what qualifies as a day?
>
> If memory serves, the 180 day thing is related to the Carnegie Unit, but I
> don't remember how. Probably all ties back to agrarian practices, as Dredge
> says.
I'm not sure how many days are needed to be honest, but I do know that PD and Exam periods do qualify as days. It's not just exam periods.
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
PD counts as a school day? That sounds more like a required number of working days in teachers' contracts, rather than required number of school days for students. Interesting. Thanks.
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
It’s Data Dave now. And yet all that you write is opinion – with a little bit of saucy insult thrown in. I’d be interested to know how CIS have offended you. Don’t tell me that they, too, have refused to register you on their candidate database!
Accreditation, just so you know, is validation. Accrediting agencies develop a series of standards; in a formal written report, the schools assess where they think they are according to these standards; a Visiting Team of teachers and administrators determine whether they agree with the school’s own assessment and write their own report for the accreditation commission; the commission will then decide whether to accredit, to accredit with conditions or not to accredit.
If international schools opt for single agency accreditation, they will use that agency’s protocol; if they opt for dual accreditation, they must use the CIS protocol and the Visiting Team Chair will be a CIS representative. Whichever protocol is used, the essence of the accreditation process is the same. Read this from the MSA site:
“The Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools (Middle States Association or M.S.A.) is a voluntary, peer-based, non-profit association that performs peer evaluation and accreditation of public and private secondary/high schools and elementary schools in the Mid-Atlantic United States and certain foreign institutions of American origin.”
These are facts, Dave. No educator would dispute them. Ergo, you are not an educator – though most people had already come to the same conclusion.
Why does accreditation matter? Well, parents looking for new schools often want some type of confirmation or “validation” that the school has taken on a standards-based assessment of its performance. That gives them some level of comfort when they make their choice. For new schools, with no track record of sending on students to tertiary education, accreditation is important because universities need to have some degree of comfort in accepting students according to the grades and courses represented on the transcript. Accreditation goes some way toward providing that comfort. Probably the most important reason for becoming an accredited school is that it is a declaration by the school that it sees itself on a journey of improvement, and the accreditation process becomes a kind of audit on its progress.
Good answers on Somalia and Aruba, by the way. This is important stuff, and I think you should concentrate your future endeavors on exactly this kind of information.
Accreditation, just so you know, is validation. Accrediting agencies develop a series of standards; in a formal written report, the schools assess where they think they are according to these standards; a Visiting Team of teachers and administrators determine whether they agree with the school’s own assessment and write their own report for the accreditation commission; the commission will then decide whether to accredit, to accredit with conditions or not to accredit.
If international schools opt for single agency accreditation, they will use that agency’s protocol; if they opt for dual accreditation, they must use the CIS protocol and the Visiting Team Chair will be a CIS representative. Whichever protocol is used, the essence of the accreditation process is the same. Read this from the MSA site:
“The Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools (Middle States Association or M.S.A.) is a voluntary, peer-based, non-profit association that performs peer evaluation and accreditation of public and private secondary/high schools and elementary schools in the Mid-Atlantic United States and certain foreign institutions of American origin.”
These are facts, Dave. No educator would dispute them. Ergo, you are not an educator – though most people had already come to the same conclusion.
Why does accreditation matter? Well, parents looking for new schools often want some type of confirmation or “validation” that the school has taken on a standards-based assessment of its performance. That gives them some level of comfort when they make their choice. For new schools, with no track record of sending on students to tertiary education, accreditation is important because universities need to have some degree of comfort in accepting students according to the grades and courses represented on the transcript. Accreditation goes some way toward providing that comfort. Probably the most important reason for becoming an accredited school is that it is a declaration by the school that it sees itself on a journey of improvement, and the accreditation process becomes a kind of audit on its progress.
Good answers on Somalia and Aruba, by the way. This is important stuff, and I think you should concentrate your future endeavors on exactly this kind of information.
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
Or try this.
I'm a two bit lawyer who has bumped around any number of positions at any number of firms, never landing a gig where they wanted me to stay on. (Must be because the incompetent partners were threatened by my brilliance and diligence.).
And I'm certain that passing the bar is not actually relevant to being a lawyer. I've told everyone this truth, but I keep getting blocked by all those incompetent partners who have a vested interest in pretending the bar is a real thing. Idiots. I swear it's true. Why won't anyone listen?
I'm a two bit lawyer who has bumped around any number of positions at any number of firms, never landing a gig where they wanted me to stay on. (Must be because the incompetent partners were threatened by my brilliance and diligence.).
And I'm certain that passing the bar is not actually relevant to being a lawyer. I've told everyone this truth, but I keep getting blocked by all those incompetent partners who have a vested interest in pretending the bar is a real thing. Idiots. I swear it's true. Why won't anyone listen?
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
And don't get me started on board certified doctors!
Re: Shorter Year than 180 Days
The truth is out there. Just ask Scully. Or PG.
Reply
@walter
You dont know what facts are. No IS must do anything CIS wants or wishes. No one needs any accreditation as long as they dont want federal funding. No one has to become certified as an IT either, its voluntary. Accreditation accomplishes real goals of which CIS has no regulatory authority over. CIS doesnt have criterion standards, and the vast majority of parents have no clue what CIS is. They go to the embassy website and those are the ISs they look at. Yes this is what real accreditation agencies provide among others, CIS does none of that. Its a club of administrators and managers.
@sid
Passing the bar is relevant, and in most jurisdictions is required to practice. Just as a educator license is required to teach in a government DS. No one needs CIS validation, not having it doesnt restrict an IS in any way. The same is true of your board certified physicians, you want to practice medicine you must pass your boards.
You dont know what facts are. No IS must do anything CIS wants or wishes. No one needs any accreditation as long as they dont want federal funding. No one has to become certified as an IT either, its voluntary. Accreditation accomplishes real goals of which CIS has no regulatory authority over. CIS doesnt have criterion standards, and the vast majority of parents have no clue what CIS is. They go to the embassy website and those are the ISs they look at. Yes this is what real accreditation agencies provide among others, CIS does none of that. Its a club of administrators and managers.
@sid
Passing the bar is relevant, and in most jurisdictions is required to practice. Just as a educator license is required to teach in a government DS. No one needs CIS validation, not having it doesnt restrict an IS in any way. The same is true of your board certified physicians, you want to practice medicine you must pass your boards.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @walter
>
> You dont know what facts are. CIS doesnt have criterion standards
No? Interesting.
Here is a link to CIS's Standards and Indicators for Accreditation.
http://www.cois.org/uploaded/Documentat ... 8_2)ii.pdf
> @walter
>
> You dont know what facts are. CIS doesnt have criterion standards
No? Interesting.
Here is a link to CIS's Standards and Indicators for Accreditation.
http://www.cois.org/uploaded/Documentat ... 8_2)ii.pdf
Reply
@sid
Those arent criterion. Accreditation systems with criterion standards require that criterion be met of all participants. CIS validates that an IS is doing what it claims to be doing, and different ISs can have different claims based on their individual ethos.
Those arent criterion. Accreditation systems with criterion standards require that criterion be met of all participants. CIS validates that an IS is doing what it claims to be doing, and different ISs can have different claims based on their individual ethos.