Thanks to all for your help.
Let me bring this back to my original post: Why, then, do you think, at the last 2 Cambridge job fairs (2014 and 2015), when I was very actively trying to get interviews, I got a total of one from a school in Kuwait? I went to 30 plus schools at each fair and they said sorry, we won't even interview you.
The thing is that I never have trouble getting a job here in the U.S. I had 3 job offers a week after I returned home from my last overseas post.
Thanks again.
Why Don't Schools Contact...
Reply
@Climberman
With your resume, you shouldnt have been at the BOS fair, you should have been at BKK, they likely too one look at your resume and rationalized that their was something wrong with you.
I see three explanations:
THE GOOD
Its you, they sense your ego and thats their first impression and in the 10-30 seconds they have to form that impression they arent interested.
THE BAD
Someone is sabotaging you, it could be your associate, could be someone else.
THE UGLY
Youve built up a rep that your high maintenance and as above, no recruiter wants a diva.
THE "REAL" UGLY
Your on a barring list (list 99) or some agency has a file on you.
With your resume, you shouldnt have been at the BOS fair, you should have been at BKK, they likely too one look at your resume and rationalized that their was something wrong with you.
I see three explanations:
THE GOOD
Its you, they sense your ego and thats their first impression and in the 10-30 seconds they have to form that impression they arent interested.
THE BAD
Someone is sabotaging you, it could be your associate, could be someone else.
THE UGLY
Youve built up a rep that your high maintenance and as above, no recruiter wants a diva.
THE "REAL" UGLY
Your on a barring list (list 99) or some agency has a file on you.
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Climberman
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:29 pm
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
That doesn't make sense.
At both job fairs my past school heads all told me to make sure I use them as references. They even spoke to a few other heads on my behalf.
And are you trying to say that going to Boston rather than Bangkok would be a warning sign to so many schools?
Man, if there are so many insidious obstacles and foolish variables involved in getting a job overseas, why bother?
And what is a list 99?
At both job fairs my past school heads all told me to make sure I use them as references. They even spoke to a few other heads on my behalf.
And are you trying to say that going to Boston rather than Bangkok would be a warning sign to so many schools?
Man, if there are so many insidious obstacles and foolish variables involved in getting a job overseas, why bother?
And what is a list 99?
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
Exactly!
That is the KEY problem with working as a teacher overseas today - too many foolish variables! I couldn't have stated it better myself.
And the only difference between Boston or Bangkok for you would be that there would be more jobs open in Bangkok. There is no way a school head would think that there was something wrong with you just because you chose Boston. They would just think that you didn't want to spend thousands on plane, hotel, etc and spend hours traveling.
Think about how frustrated you would have been if you had gone to Bangkok and walked away with nothing.
My advice is to spend this summer thinking about your true reasons for wanting to teach overseas. Then either jump back in or...don't.
Good luck on your path.
That is the KEY problem with working as a teacher overseas today - too many foolish variables! I couldn't have stated it better myself.
And the only difference between Boston or Bangkok for you would be that there would be more jobs open in Bangkok. There is no way a school head would think that there was something wrong with you just because you chose Boston. They would just think that you didn't want to spend thousands on plane, hotel, etc and spend hours traveling.
Think about how frustrated you would have been if you had gone to Bangkok and walked away with nothing.
My advice is to spend this summer thinking about your true reasons for wanting to teach overseas. Then either jump back in or...don't.
Good luck on your path.
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
I don't agree that there's anything in the Boston v Bangkok thing.
If you went to a fair, any fair, and really tried to sell yourself, visiting all the tables during sign-up, and no one would look at you, then something is wrong in the way you're coming across to recruiters. Either in your personal presence, your CV and matiersls, or in your references. It could be something real and tangible, like a bad reference or jumping around from school to school too often, or something intangible like an air of arrogance or a lack of confidence. Not knowing you or your file, I can't say what, but there is a problem somewhere.
If, on the other hand, you took the same laid back approach at the fair, waiting for recruiters to come to you, it could have been the same issue you're facing now: a lack of activity on your part is interpreted by recruiters as a lack of interest.
If you went to a fair, any fair, and really tried to sell yourself, visiting all the tables during sign-up, and no one would look at you, then something is wrong in the way you're coming across to recruiters. Either in your personal presence, your CV and matiersls, or in your references. It could be something real and tangible, like a bad reference or jumping around from school to school too often, or something intangible like an air of arrogance or a lack of confidence. Not knowing you or your file, I can't say what, but there is a problem somewhere.
If, on the other hand, you took the same laid back approach at the fair, waiting for recruiters to come to you, it could have been the same issue you're facing now: a lack of activity on your part is interpreted by recruiters as a lack of interest.
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Climberman
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:29 pm
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
I have been at 2 international schools in 8 years.
I have been told that my references are good. My resume is solid.
I have had my past school heads offer me jobs to come back to their schools to teach.
I have had past school heads pitch for me at job fairs.
I do not have any ego problem and I am only looking for a job at a good school, definitely not a top school.
I ACTIVELY pursued interviews at both job fairs and came up with nothing.
I have been told that my references are good. My resume is solid.
I have had my past school heads offer me jobs to come back to their schools to teach.
I have had past school heads pitch for me at job fairs.
I do not have any ego problem and I am only looking for a job at a good school, definitely not a top school.
I ACTIVELY pursued interviews at both job fairs and came up with nothing.
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
That is exactly what I have been trying to get across.
All of the people who believe that the international teaching life is the greatest thing since sliced bread automatically assume that there must be something wrong with you. That "sage" Psyguy even goes so far as to say that maybe you are not suitable to work with children - list 99 - after his list of other things, all pointing to you as the reason.
I recognize your problem as a problem with the system. The truth is probably that you are a good teacher and have good references and would gladly be rehired by your past heads because they are probably good people who recognize your talent but, even with all of that, you may not have a reputation as a butt kisser - an ESSENTIAL component of any international teacher today.
The sad fact is that you can be very good at what you do but if you are independent and not a robot who says, "Yes, massa" every time a school head speaks, you suddenly find yourself as an outcast.
I am sure you have seen them at the job fairs. The ones with the big phony smiles and the chapped lips.
I was recently offered an overseas job by a guy I used to work with who is now a principal. I turned him down flat because I am so sick of those sycophants at international schools flattering their bosses every day and building up their frighteningly insecure egos.
So, I think you are probably a good teacher who has a reputation as a strong person of integrity - A BIG NO NO for most school heads who have the egos of spoiled little children.
Note that "a strong person with integrity" is, unfortunately, in the weird little world of international education synonymous with "having an attitude problem".
The only other thing I can think of is that you are black, which, sad to say, will not get you too many positions in the racist world of international education. Yet another reason that system is corrupt and broken.
So, keep trying. Go to Boston since it is cheaper and see what opens up, but be ready for anything. And keep your job in the U.S. - it is the U.S. right? And this summer spend time working out a plan in your life where you can teach and be happy.
And don't put too much stock in any of the posts that are too ready to blame you. These people desperately want to believe that it must be you because the only other reason is that the system does not work.
All of the people who believe that the international teaching life is the greatest thing since sliced bread automatically assume that there must be something wrong with you. That "sage" Psyguy even goes so far as to say that maybe you are not suitable to work with children - list 99 - after his list of other things, all pointing to you as the reason.
I recognize your problem as a problem with the system. The truth is probably that you are a good teacher and have good references and would gladly be rehired by your past heads because they are probably good people who recognize your talent but, even with all of that, you may not have a reputation as a butt kisser - an ESSENTIAL component of any international teacher today.
The sad fact is that you can be very good at what you do but if you are independent and not a robot who says, "Yes, massa" every time a school head speaks, you suddenly find yourself as an outcast.
I am sure you have seen them at the job fairs. The ones with the big phony smiles and the chapped lips.
I was recently offered an overseas job by a guy I used to work with who is now a principal. I turned him down flat because I am so sick of those sycophants at international schools flattering their bosses every day and building up their frighteningly insecure egos.
So, I think you are probably a good teacher who has a reputation as a strong person of integrity - A BIG NO NO for most school heads who have the egos of spoiled little children.
Note that "a strong person with integrity" is, unfortunately, in the weird little world of international education synonymous with "having an attitude problem".
The only other thing I can think of is that you are black, which, sad to say, will not get you too many positions in the racist world of international education. Yet another reason that system is corrupt and broken.
So, keep trying. Go to Boston since it is cheaper and see what opens up, but be ready for anything. And keep your job in the U.S. - it is the U.S. right? And this summer spend time working out a plan in your life where you can teach and be happy.
And don't put too much stock in any of the posts that are too ready to blame you. These people desperately want to believe that it must be you because the only other reason is that the system does not work.
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
My apologies if I appeared to imply there was something wrong with the OP. This was not my intent. My belief is that if he or she is not being approached for interviews after showing interest, that the recruiters must have a reason, there must be something they are perceiving that stops them from acting. If the OP can figure out what this thing is, he or she can address it. It could be a totally incorrect perception on the behalf of the recruiters, and the OP might be getting a hard time over something he or she doesn't deserve at all.
Since the OP wrote in and asked about this, I must believe that he or she does care what the answer might be, and might be willing to do something to make things better. After all, what's the old saying, something about madness being someone doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results? If the OP wants a different response from recruiters, he or she might have to change how they go about this business.
As for the system being broken and international schools being no fit place for man nor beast, I'm sure I don't know. Perhaps these things are true. But if the OP wants a job in one anyway, the OP might just have to make that broken system work for him (or her), instead of waiting for it to heal itself, jump from the grave, and offer him a job.
Since the OP wrote in and asked about this, I must believe that he or she does care what the answer might be, and might be willing to do something to make things better. After all, what's the old saying, something about madness being someone doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results? If the OP wants a different response from recruiters, he or she might have to change how they go about this business.
As for the system being broken and international schools being no fit place for man nor beast, I'm sure I don't know. Perhaps these things are true. But if the OP wants a job in one anyway, the OP might just have to make that broken system work for him (or her), instead of waiting for it to heal itself, jump from the grave, and offer him a job.
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
seems like you're qualified - maybe you're too expensive? haha.
i think there could be something "wrong" with you ( i don't know ) - it's fairly subjective from what i have seen at the fairs. maybe senator is partially right about your demeanor not seeming "pliable" enough...but i wouldn't go as far as generalizing it to the entire "system of international education." lots of qualified, ostensibly good teachers don't get positions or bites. teachers like IE for many reasons and while senator might find certain domestic posts rewarding it's not for everyone. education will still screw you, wherever you work, because it's still not truly valued - either in the minds or the pocketbooks - of many places including north american. but i digress...
it's possible that the schools you talked with really are only looking for couples - maybe you would have better luck going for a "top tier" school. your qualifications seem to warrant quality school...
however, i doubt there is anything suspicious in your file...but i don't know and maybe you need to change associates to find out.
i can't agree completely with senator on the idea of schools only wanting "yes" people though. true enough they don't want people looking to start fires just to watch it burn, but how would schools ever really know that to begin with? certainly a person desiring a position (in any line of work) would attempt to build up positives and downplay (perceived) negatives in any face-to-face interview or discussion? that leaves only a couple of possibilities in my opinion....again, either it's true the schools want couples, there is something in your file, you talked with jerks, you could be a visible minority (sigh) and the schools you're applying to have racial hesitations, the "good schools" you interviewed/applied to are more about saving money than paying for quality/qualifications/experience, or there is some sort of energy crackling off of you that is making recruiters' spidey sense tingling.
anyways, i really hope you get some callbacks!
v.
i think there could be something "wrong" with you ( i don't know ) - it's fairly subjective from what i have seen at the fairs. maybe senator is partially right about your demeanor not seeming "pliable" enough...but i wouldn't go as far as generalizing it to the entire "system of international education." lots of qualified, ostensibly good teachers don't get positions or bites. teachers like IE for many reasons and while senator might find certain domestic posts rewarding it's not for everyone. education will still screw you, wherever you work, because it's still not truly valued - either in the minds or the pocketbooks - of many places including north american. but i digress...
it's possible that the schools you talked with really are only looking for couples - maybe you would have better luck going for a "top tier" school. your qualifications seem to warrant quality school...
however, i doubt there is anything suspicious in your file...but i don't know and maybe you need to change associates to find out.
i can't agree completely with senator on the idea of schools only wanting "yes" people though. true enough they don't want people looking to start fires just to watch it burn, but how would schools ever really know that to begin with? certainly a person desiring a position (in any line of work) would attempt to build up positives and downplay (perceived) negatives in any face-to-face interview or discussion? that leaves only a couple of possibilities in my opinion....again, either it's true the schools want couples, there is something in your file, you talked with jerks, you could be a visible minority (sigh) and the schools you're applying to have racial hesitations, the "good schools" you interviewed/applied to are more about saving money than paying for quality/qualifications/experience, or there is some sort of energy crackling off of you that is making recruiters' spidey sense tingling.
anyways, i really hope you get some callbacks!
v.
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
One of the arguments in favor of job fairs and the face to face nature of them is that recruiters can get a "feel" for a person, i.e. take in all of the body language cues, choice of dress, appearance (does this person look healthy? do they take care of themselves?), tone and volume of voice, eye contact, handshake, odor, age, attractiveness, facial expressions, the list goes on. It could be that something is turning people off. Maybe a friend or former colleague could better answer that question.
As for no one contacting you directly, why would they? You can read here how competitive it can be. When people are knocking down my door to give me doughnuts, I'm not walking around them to go buy doughnuts at the store.
Good luck! I would say don't give up. Contact someone and get the job you want!
As for no one contacting you directly, why would they? You can read here how competitive it can be. When people are knocking down my door to give me doughnuts, I'm not walking around them to go buy doughnuts at the store.
Good luck! I would say don't give up. Contact someone and get the job you want!
Reply
@Climberman
Why doesnt that make sense, if your previous HOS is trying to sabotage you, of course they would like to talk to any potential recruiters. Its the classic "mean girl", nice to your face and trash you behind your back. Your a highly experienced HL IB math teacher maybe your current admin doesnt want to lose you.
Yes, you should have been to BKK. BOS is a n entry level fair, if you have a high demand experienced IT in line with entry level teachers, as a recruiter you think two things: 1) Whats wrong with them/what did they do wrong. 2) Whats their ulterior agenda.
You get to live overseas, and whatever poo you deal with in IE theres more poo too put up with as a domestic teacher.
List 99 was a barring list in the UK of individuals who were unfit "barred" from working with various populations (such as children), it was however a secret list, and you had no idea you were on it, and no means of appealing your inclusion on it.
Their are 3 sources of problems for an IT searching for an appointment; problems you dont know about, problems with you, or their problems... with you.
The first you cant do anything about. Of the other two you want the problem to be with you, because you can fix those directly. Its an order of magnitude more difficult to fix a problem someone else has with you.
Why doesnt that make sense, if your previous HOS is trying to sabotage you, of course they would like to talk to any potential recruiters. Its the classic "mean girl", nice to your face and trash you behind your back. Your a highly experienced HL IB math teacher maybe your current admin doesnt want to lose you.
Yes, you should have been to BKK. BOS is a n entry level fair, if you have a high demand experienced IT in line with entry level teachers, as a recruiter you think two things: 1) Whats wrong with them/what did they do wrong. 2) Whats their ulterior agenda.
You get to live overseas, and whatever poo you deal with in IE theres more poo too put up with as a domestic teacher.
List 99 was a barring list in the UK of individuals who were unfit "barred" from working with various populations (such as children), it was however a secret list, and you had no idea you were on it, and no means of appealing your inclusion on it.
Their are 3 sources of problems for an IT searching for an appointment; problems you dont know about, problems with you, or their problems... with you.
The first you cant do anything about. Of the other two you want the problem to be with you, because you can fix those directly. Its an order of magnitude more difficult to fix a problem someone else has with you.
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Climberman
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:29 pm
Re: Why Don't Schools Contact...
Ok, fair enough.
But I did send out 30 resumes/applications to schools ahead of the job fairs and did not mention I was with Search.
Still: Nothing.
But I did send out 30 resumes/applications to schools ahead of the job fairs and did not mention I was with Search.
Still: Nothing.