For anyone concerned:
http://news.yahoo.com/cancer-surge-chin ... 51951.html
One More Reason to Avoid China
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HereThereEverywhere
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:03 am
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
Not to downplay this because, it is is terrible, but remember that the average Chinese person has little availability to and takes almost no precaution in protecting themselves from the air and other pollutants whereas expatriates would be fools not to shell out for various filters and other measures that drastically reduce exposure.
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
China is a pit stain of a place. Ugly industrial cities with rude people. Filthy and dirtiest place I have ever lived.
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
@Kyudoka - Your comment is right on! Except switch the word Cleveland with the word China. They even have a professional football team named after the color of their air: Browns!
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
Nikkor good call! CA had 8 cities today with AQIs higher than Beijing (at current time AM Thursday). Grant it I can drink the water back home and I'm not too worried about food, CA has days of what they call spare the air days...sure no where near what China can pull but certainly dangerous levels for anyone with respiratory issues. Last winter I experienced 13 straight days of haze in the SF Bay Area...was never that bad growing up there. But extreme congestion and lack of quality public transit gets you smog, even in "sunny CA"!
I think you you either hate China or have a strange love for it.
@psyguy you're right on this. Marin County in SF Bay Area has one of the highest concentrations of breast cancer in our country. Rich white women who 1. Don't work, 2. can afford all "organic' and healthy food, 3. have access to the highest quality medical care and funds for preventative care (fitness and food) and still the cancer persists. Go to a poor, under served community across the bridge...asthma and diabetes are the main issues. Go figure.
I think you you either hate China or have a strange love for it.
@psyguy you're right on this. Marin County in SF Bay Area has one of the highest concentrations of breast cancer in our country. Rich white women who 1. Don't work, 2. can afford all "organic' and healthy food, 3. have access to the highest quality medical care and funds for preventative care (fitness and food) and still the cancer persists. Go to a poor, under served community across the bridge...asthma and diabetes are the main issues. Go figure.
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
Some of you just are not getting it.
Of course Americans in the U.S. are getting cancer at higher rates as the typical American lifestyle - diet, lack of exercise, obesity, etc. - is not healthy.
But the Chinese have long been considered some of the healthiest people in the world. BUT WITHIN A VERY SHORT TIME PERIOD, they are now succumbing to the same illnesses and diseases that befall other citizens of industrialized countries and at a high rate, at that. Much higher than what should be normal.
The key phrase is "within a very short time period".
And, as a side note, why would anyone want to live a life where they have to wear a mask outside and have their air in their homes filtered?
I'll bet most of the people who disagree with me have never even lived in China.
Of course Americans in the U.S. are getting cancer at higher rates as the typical American lifestyle - diet, lack of exercise, obesity, etc. - is not healthy.
But the Chinese have long been considered some of the healthiest people in the world. BUT WITHIN A VERY SHORT TIME PERIOD, they are now succumbing to the same illnesses and diseases that befall other citizens of industrialized countries and at a high rate, at that. Much higher than what should be normal.
The key phrase is "within a very short time period".
And, as a side note, why would anyone want to live a life where they have to wear a mask outside and have their air in their homes filtered?
I'll bet most of the people who disagree with me have never even lived in China.
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expatteacher99
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:46 am
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
I agree with you, Senator. It is worrying. We found China to be a filthy, disgusting, smelly, crowded, polluted, stressful place. And the people (in terms of customs/society) as a whole? Don't even get me started. My husband and I have put China on our NEVER list. I understand why single men like it, but for everyone else I do not understand the appeal.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
One More Reason to Avoid Small Minded International Teachers
It's alright, the rest of us who enjoy living in China will continue to do well when you all leave. Actually, it sounds like Senator has left international teaching altogether (based on another post?), which seems to be a good move on his part. Expatteacher99, the first step is admitting you don't understand, but it's nice to see people who take the next step in learning rather than being dismissive. It's what teachers do when students first react by rejecting something rather than try to understand. It's easy to hate and fear what you don't understand.
China is a fascinating place with lots of contradictions. It's not an easy place, though it's actually become easier over time in some respects. Getting around with a map and a pocket dictionary are infinitely more challenging than having a smart phone with gps and various apps to supplement what ever one's knowledge of Chinese language one has. What one thing I love about China is the ability to dive into the local culture and engage with people. In the past, Chinese people held (Western, white) foreigners in very high esteem, and I'd say that attitude has shifted into a perception that is more mature and critical. Again, if you don't speak the language, you'll miss out on a lot of good stuff, though you may miss some of the bad too.
And I've seen single men, single women, and married couples who have all liked living in China. They've been people willing to get out of their comfort zone and go beyond the surface to understand what's happening here. It takes time. It takes patience. It takes a willingness to re-evaluate what you think you know. I'm happy to share all the things I like in a PM if anyone wants to hear and is considering working in China. There are some downsides, and there are some terrible schools to boot.
I'll admit the pollution is tough. I'm not someone who will probably be here 10 years from now. Pollution is one part of that. I, myself, wouldn't choose to live up North where the air pollution is worse. If the pollution wasn't so bad, I'd be very tempted by being in Beijing or other Northern cities. Others would disagree with me. I really hope the pollution problem gets dealt with so the average Chinese person doesn't have a lower quality of life as a result. I'm not sure that it will improve, but it might.
China is a fascinating place with lots of contradictions. It's not an easy place, though it's actually become easier over time in some respects. Getting around with a map and a pocket dictionary are infinitely more challenging than having a smart phone with gps and various apps to supplement what ever one's knowledge of Chinese language one has. What one thing I love about China is the ability to dive into the local culture and engage with people. In the past, Chinese people held (Western, white) foreigners in very high esteem, and I'd say that attitude has shifted into a perception that is more mature and critical. Again, if you don't speak the language, you'll miss out on a lot of good stuff, though you may miss some of the bad too.
And I've seen single men, single women, and married couples who have all liked living in China. They've been people willing to get out of their comfort zone and go beyond the surface to understand what's happening here. It takes time. It takes patience. It takes a willingness to re-evaluate what you think you know. I'm happy to share all the things I like in a PM if anyone wants to hear and is considering working in China. There are some downsides, and there are some terrible schools to boot.
I'll admit the pollution is tough. I'm not someone who will probably be here 10 years from now. Pollution is one part of that. I, myself, wouldn't choose to live up North where the air pollution is worse. If the pollution wasn't so bad, I'd be very tempted by being in Beijing or other Northern cities. Others would disagree with me. I really hope the pollution problem gets dealt with so the average Chinese person doesn't have a lower quality of life as a result. I'm not sure that it will improve, but it might.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
We found China (Beijing actually) to be a very livable and enjoyable place to live and work. There are some top quality schools there and the city offers an amazing number of cultural sights to experience and explore (as well shopping of all kinds, great restaurants, great western style/quality apartments, green spaces, water parks, etc). Once you learn just a bit of Chinese and become confident with taxis then you are pretty much set for transportation (and the subway system also continues to expand).
I didn't find it all that much dirtier than many other large cities. The pollution is/was a concern but for 2 years we never wore masks and didn't have an air filter in our apt. If they can ever start fixing that issue then places like Beijing would/should be highly sought after destinations as they have so many other positives.
I didn't find it all that much dirtier than many other large cities. The pollution is/was a concern but for 2 years we never wore masks and didn't have an air filter in our apt. If they can ever start fixing that issue then places like Beijing would/should be highly sought after destinations as they have so many other positives.
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HereThereEverywhere
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:03 am
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
Many people like it and many don't. I can see the reasons on both sides and they are both reasonable When its a 500 pm 2.5 day and you get elbowed by some old lady getting on the subway (and about 10 other people) and the whole car is full of noisy people, then you get out and see some kid being held over a garbage can taking a poop while the guy next to you is snacking with his mouth open you start to wonder what the hell is going on. So you have a 50 cent beer, and a 5 dollar meal, shuck it off and hit the hay. You wake up the next day and the pm 2.5 is 30. The sky is clear and the world is a better place. You grab a youtiao for 40 cents, wonder why there is a gynecology advert at the bus stop, or why that guy just picked his nose and looked at it, or why, well, a lot of things.
I think most people come to China because its talked up so much as the next big thing and it is a mystery to them why that is. Some people conclude that its not the next big thing, but a "pit stain" and other people conclude that there is just so much oddity to smirk at they don't leave (honestly, does anyone believe its the next big thing?).
Yeah, pollution is a concern, but really its not. Most expats aren't in China for too long, just like anywhere else. Those that are can easily take precautions, its not as big a concern as most people make it out to be on these forums. Of course, if I had young kids I would not bring them to China, but I would also not likely bring them to India, Vietnam, Pakistan, Botswana, etc. On the average, the air pollutions levels are going DOWN in China and while most might say that they won't be in China in 10 years, those living in China in 10 years will likely enjoy a much higher standard of living and much lower pollution levels.
I think most people come to China because its talked up so much as the next big thing and it is a mystery to them why that is. Some people conclude that its not the next big thing, but a "pit stain" and other people conclude that there is just so much oddity to smirk at they don't leave (honestly, does anyone believe its the next big thing?).
Yeah, pollution is a concern, but really its not. Most expats aren't in China for too long, just like anywhere else. Those that are can easily take precautions, its not as big a concern as most people make it out to be on these forums. Of course, if I had young kids I would not bring them to China, but I would also not likely bring them to India, Vietnam, Pakistan, Botswana, etc. On the average, the air pollutions levels are going DOWN in China and while most might say that they won't be in China in 10 years, those living in China in 10 years will likely enjoy a much higher standard of living and much lower pollution levels.
Discussion
China as a whole gets a poor environmental rep because of the conditions in a few locations, and while those locations (such as Beijing) deserve the reputation they have it does not generalize to the entire country. There are many places that are amazingly clean to live in the more rural areas of China, of course you dont have the cosmopolitan city life and with an absence of upper tier ISs you see a big difference in compensation, but as is true in many choices, there are advantages and disadvantages.
China is still the next big thing, but "big" is on a Chinese scale and timeline, not a western one. The progress China has made and the changes in the last 20 years are truly impressive on a cultural developmental scale. The struggle is what the end game and result is going to look like, and even China (though they wont admit it) doesnt know what that is.
China is still the next big thing, but "big" is on a Chinese scale and timeline, not a western one. The progress China has made and the changes in the last 20 years are truly impressive on a cultural developmental scale. The struggle is what the end game and result is going to look like, and even China (though they wont admit it) doesnt know what that is.
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
The air in Shanghai and Beijing can be so shockingly bad that someone who hasn't experienced it cannot even imagine it. People will try to downplay it, but I have never seen anything remotely close to that level of air pollution in the USA or any other first world country.
If you are going to fret when the air is bad then don't go Beijing, Guangzhou, Xian, or Shanghai. Some people are really bothered (psychologically) when the air is incredibly polluted and you cant spend time outdoors, but I didn't worry about it and I loved my time in Beijing. Now that I have kids I have steered clear of highly polluted air though.
If you are going to fret when the air is bad then don't go Beijing, Guangzhou, Xian, or Shanghai. Some people are really bothered (psychologically) when the air is incredibly polluted and you cant spend time outdoors, but I didn't worry about it and I loved my time in Beijing. Now that I have kids I have steered clear of highly polluted air though.
Re: One More Reason to Avoid China
Let the haters hate, you're missing out on one of the word's oldest cultures. =)