Thank you everyone for your input. I think I'll give it a few more days to see if my advisor will respond. It hasn't been a week since I accepted the offer.
I am really torn about what to do... Apparently, this school does not issue any contract until they have received all required documents, including physical copies of passport photos, medical exam certificates, etc.. Is this normal?
I think this school is a well-established school, but I'm getting a little worried...
After you've secured a position through Search...
Discussion
@UnCloudy
A few years ago I would have been more surprised and called BS. As I grow in this profession, less and less surprises me. I dont doubt you, I know people in your situation before with the only difference being they had a properly executed contract and the travel/report date was a lot closer. If you wrote this was a March start for Thailand/Australia, or an April start for Japan, I could understand that. Since an April start in JP would indicate more of a domestic or bilingual school, and they likely wouldnt be able to get you a COE in time. Same for Thailand with a March start, and currently your school would have to have some significant pull with the local immigration authority or youd do a visa run to Malaysia, etc.
A visa run is when you come to a country on a tourist visa and have to leave to a neighboring country before your visa expires and either apply for a work visa, or come back on a new tourist visa. Its use to be more common in JP for ESOL teachers to jump back and forth between SK and JP, and ESOL teachers in Thailand would often fly to HCMC in Vietnam.
Not only does the time for travel arrangements but not a contract have little rational, but the school didnt get very good value for the tickets this far in advance (6 months). They would have spent considerably less, closer to 30 days from departure. If they can do all this work, why cant they get a contract too you?
I fell like Ive worried you unnecessarily, money talks in this profession, and with the expenditures your school has made based on your statements, your in a very secure position. This is likely just an esoteric abnormality. It makes for a good story and exercise though.
A few years ago I would have been more surprised and called BS. As I grow in this profession, less and less surprises me. I dont doubt you, I know people in your situation before with the only difference being they had a properly executed contract and the travel/report date was a lot closer. If you wrote this was a March start for Thailand/Australia, or an April start for Japan, I could understand that. Since an April start in JP would indicate more of a domestic or bilingual school, and they likely wouldnt be able to get you a COE in time. Same for Thailand with a March start, and currently your school would have to have some significant pull with the local immigration authority or youd do a visa run to Malaysia, etc.
A visa run is when you come to a country on a tourist visa and have to leave to a neighboring country before your visa expires and either apply for a work visa, or come back on a new tourist visa. Its use to be more common in JP for ESOL teachers to jump back and forth between SK and JP, and ESOL teachers in Thailand would often fly to HCMC in Vietnam.
Not only does the time for travel arrangements but not a contract have little rational, but the school didnt get very good value for the tickets this far in advance (6 months). They would have spent considerably less, closer to 30 days from departure. If they can do all this work, why cant they get a contract too you?
I fell like Ive worried you unnecessarily, money talks in this profession, and with the expenditures your school has made based on your statements, your in a very secure position. This is likely just an esoteric abnormality. It makes for a good story and exercise though.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
Maybe Uncloudy's situation is unique because the country she is going to is experiencing hyperinflation and schools buy tickets when they can or on the black market, which can change normal operating procedure.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
Thanks, @reisgio - I think that is exactly the reason. Tickets can be hard to come by and they wanted to lock in the dates.
@psyguy - I see what you're saying and have no doubt at all that my experience isn't the norm. It probably isn't the norm for this school that is in a pretty volatile location right now. I appreciate that caution and skepticism are MUSTS if we are to protect ourselves, and I know that's what you were proposing. I do feel like I'm ok, though, and super excited :)
@psyguy - I see what you're saying and have no doubt at all that my experience isn't the norm. It probably isn't the norm for this school that is in a pretty volatile location right now. I appreciate that caution and skepticism are MUSTS if we are to protect ourselves, and I know that's what you were proposing. I do feel like I'm ok, though, and super excited :)
Reply
@machan
I would certainly give it a few more days, but I already know what your associate will say "Its fine, please deactivate your account".
Its not normal, first, thy want you to mail physical photos to them, digital files are satisfactory, as the school can convert digital passport files into passport prints if they need too. The majority of contracts have clauses that nullify the contract if your medical exam is not satisfactory. There is almost (there are some exceptions) no scenario terms or conditions that could be included in c ontrat to deal with whatever legal requirements the school wants or needs.
Well established schools withdraw and rescind contracts as well.
@reisgio
Hyper inflation maybe, black market no. Its very difficult to transfer airline tickets for international travel, especially with western countries. Schools just dont deal with black markets for airfare on an international ticket this far in advance too high of a probability the tickets would be voided and rendered useless by the time of departure. It would be a loss for the school, not any gain in savings.
I would certainly give it a few more days, but I already know what your associate will say "Its fine, please deactivate your account".
Its not normal, first, thy want you to mail physical photos to them, digital files are satisfactory, as the school can convert digital passport files into passport prints if they need too. The majority of contracts have clauses that nullify the contract if your medical exam is not satisfactory. There is almost (there are some exceptions) no scenario terms or conditions that could be included in c ontrat to deal with whatever legal requirements the school wants or needs.
Well established schools withdraw and rescind contracts as well.
@reisgio
Hyper inflation maybe, black market no. Its very difficult to transfer airline tickets for international travel, especially with western countries. Schools just dont deal with black markets for airfare on an international ticket this far in advance too high of a probability the tickets would be voided and rendered useless by the time of departure. It would be a loss for the school, not any gain in savings.
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justlooking
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:02 am
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
We're in a similar position to Uncloudy. Well established school, got the jobs via Skype interviews, signed an intent to hire, sent in police background check and all the other paperwork. We have electronic airline tickets in our possession (for an August start, very good price btw), handbooks, our child's admission paperwork, but no contract yet.
We're not really worried but even if we did have a contract, they could cancel it and there is nothing we could do. We left ourselves active on Search for a week or so but have now deactivated. I like being able to see school information for my friends or just general research reasons but we felt like we held out long enough.
We're not really worried but even if we did have a contract, they could cancel it and there is nothing we could do. We left ourselves active on Search for a week or so but have now deactivated. I like being able to see school information for my friends or just general research reasons but we felt like we held out long enough.
Re: After you've secured a position through Search...
I'm really kind of amused that people are arguing with PG over how they feel. PG has posted vociferously in the past along the lines of "if it's how I feel, it's my truth and no one has right to say I'm wrong or even disagree with me, since it's my truth", and yet here he is today, literally telling people that when they say they feel valued, they're wrong, they don't feel valued.
PG has some uses [checks to see if lightning threatens], but it's absolutely pointless getting into back-and-forths with him. Despite his protestations, he is neither infallible nor omniscient.
If anyone is interested in someone else's truth, I find there are many "normals" in international teaching, and different approaches to handling contracts and tickets and everything else about hiring. I see nothing inherently wrong or scary about the scenarios described in this thread. That's not to say that for sure they'll turn out right, but I have seen enough turn out absolutely fine, that I tend towards optimism, and advise a course of patience. PG has seen some turn bad (as have I), and he therefore advises a different course. Perhaps that is a key difference between us. (Not the only one, of course.)
Sid out.
PG has some uses [checks to see if lightning threatens], but it's absolutely pointless getting into back-and-forths with him. Despite his protestations, he is neither infallible nor omniscient.
If anyone is interested in someone else's truth, I find there are many "normals" in international teaching, and different approaches to handling contracts and tickets and everything else about hiring. I see nothing inherently wrong or scary about the scenarios described in this thread. That's not to say that for sure they'll turn out right, but I have seen enough turn out absolutely fine, that I tend towards optimism, and advise a course of patience. PG has seen some turn bad (as have I), and he therefore advises a different course. Perhaps that is a key difference between us. (Not the only one, of course.)
Sid out.
Discussion
@sid
Everyone has the right to say Im wrong, and I openly welcome disagreement. Ive never expressed otherwise. I have also never claimed to be omnipotent, omnipresent or infallible. Ive admitted being wrong in the past, and have apologized for errors and mistakes in the past.
In theraputic environments and mental health you never diagnose your self, we are biased towards ourselves, and I push boundaries because we all need outside observations. Our readership is welcome to disregard and thing "PG is wrong about that" and their entitled to be offended, Im okay with that. Being offended forming a conclusion means thinking about the suggestion, thats what matters.
I openly and continuously encourage active participation and contribution from our readership. we need more opinions not fewer.
It should scare you, well not you, because your an admin. I dont advise very often I inform based on possible outcomes I have experience with, our experiences would seem to differ, and as you acknowledge youve seen scary bad things too, what purpose does hiding them serve?
Everyone has the right to say Im wrong, and I openly welcome disagreement. Ive never expressed otherwise. I have also never claimed to be omnipotent, omnipresent or infallible. Ive admitted being wrong in the past, and have apologized for errors and mistakes in the past.
In theraputic environments and mental health you never diagnose your self, we are biased towards ourselves, and I push boundaries because we all need outside observations. Our readership is welcome to disregard and thing "PG is wrong about that" and their entitled to be offended, Im okay with that. Being offended forming a conclusion means thinking about the suggestion, thats what matters.
I openly and continuously encourage active participation and contribution from our readership. we need more opinions not fewer.
It should scare you, well not you, because your an admin. I dont advise very often I inform based on possible outcomes I have experience with, our experiences would seem to differ, and as you acknowledge youve seen scary bad things too, what purpose does hiding them serve?