Hi all!
Thank you advance for taking the time to give me advice in regards to my question.
I currently work at a very large international school that employs 100 certified teachers. I'm just curious: what should one expect for turnover? I know there are a variety of reasons for turnover rates (pollution, etc), but are there schools that have high turnover rates because of the school itself?
I think my school has employed approximately 25 new staff members this year, so I guess you could safely say that 25% of the staff are new to the school. Experiences vary, of course, some teachers are fresh from university, others have previous teaching experiences. I was one of the lucky ones to be hired without any classroom teaching experience.
Please let me know what you think, and if there are any statistics on the internet that illustrate international school turnover rates, then please post it below.
Thank you again for your insights!
Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
as you might imagine, it would be very hard to gather statistics on international school turnover rates generally. you may have more success when you pare it down to specific schools.
i would venture to say that most schools' turnover rates, like any corporation or business, are subject to the usual variables: salary, quality of life, satisfaction with the job. these end up being very subjective variables in every case.
i have no proof, but i would say a turnover rate of 10% or less is normal. up to 25% indicates some "minor" problems with admin., lifestyle, salary, etc... anything higher than 30% could possibly indicate some weaknesses or flaws in the school (infrastructure, personnel, etc..) that are chronically unaddressed.
maybe others have more quantitative-based ideas. i am just guessing. if i was at a school and 25-40% of teachers are leaving, that would be a big red flag for me. but again, a lot of other things to take into consideration.
ask around quietly at your school, and you'll get a better idea of the "why" than an of us could give!
v.
i would venture to say that most schools' turnover rates, like any corporation or business, are subject to the usual variables: salary, quality of life, satisfaction with the job. these end up being very subjective variables in every case.
i have no proof, but i would say a turnover rate of 10% or less is normal. up to 25% indicates some "minor" problems with admin., lifestyle, salary, etc... anything higher than 30% could possibly indicate some weaknesses or flaws in the school (infrastructure, personnel, etc..) that are chronically unaddressed.
maybe others have more quantitative-based ideas. i am just guessing. if i was at a school and 25-40% of teachers are leaving, that would be a big red flag for me. but again, a lot of other things to take into consideration.
ask around quietly at your school, and you'll get a better idea of the "why" than an of us could give!
v.
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wntriscoming
- Posts: 114
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Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
I think if schools are having a 30% turnover, that is something to note, but not necessarily be super concerned about. I would guess that administration would be a big reason for turnover, especially change in administration. I'd also look divisionally. If the middle school has a 40% turnover, but the elementary only has 10%...that says something different than a 35% turnover in both divisions.
Our schools have had the biggest turnover when the principals have changed. Many left the same year the principal did, and many others the following year when the new administration came in changing things to suit them.
Our schools have had the biggest turnover when the principals have changed. Many left the same year the principal did, and many others the following year when the new administration came in changing things to suit them.
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
Based on my own experience, I would estimate that 20% or so is fairly normal/average. To me, a more telling statistic is how long teachers have stayed at a particular school. If you see people breaking contract after just one year then that could obviously be a serious concern. If many/most teachers leave after only 2-3 years then you might also want to think carefully about joining such a school. There are variations of course depending on your age and marital status, but something worth considering.
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
It could be something completely beyond the control of the school. In some countries, international 'workers' do not have to pay tax for the first two years of residence.
Provided there are still enough local staff to hold the institutional corporate history, it could well be an excellent school.
Provided there are still enough local staff to hold the institutional corporate history, it could well be an excellent school.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
I have been at what people call "two and done" schools. I have been at schools where people seem to stay a longer time, but when adding up the turnover, it was still over 90% of staff turning over by the end of year 5.
Generally at schools you might have some years where turnover is very high (I once worked at a school where one year apparently 70%+ of the teaching staff were new), and others where it is very low.
As other posters mentioned, there might be a reason for some years - admin cleaning house, new admin cleaning house for friends to move in, people just 'over' living in the host country. But a consistent high turnover brings up questions that make me think I don't want to teach there...
Generally at schools you might have some years where turnover is very high (I once worked at a school where one year apparently 70%+ of the teaching staff were new), and others where it is very low.
As other posters mentioned, there might be a reason for some years - admin cleaning house, new admin cleaning house for friends to move in, people just 'over' living in the host country. But a consistent high turnover brings up questions that make me think I don't want to teach there...
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
ECIS does a statistical survey each year that covers exactly this question. I don't have it in front of me, and of course the results vary somewhat year on year, but...
It would seem to indicate that 20% to 25% is fairly normal. 10% is quite low, and many schools shoot for that as a target if they want to put themselves in the top rankings.
And be careful about the Ida that 25 new people out of 100 total means 25% turnover. In growth situations, maybe only 20 people actually left and 5 positions were new, so less than 20% turnover actually. If the school is shrinking, it would be higher than 25%. And all schools go through cycles, quite normally and naturally, so there might be several "smaller" years followed by a big turnover year, and it's still likely to be an awesome school. It's when you see multiple big years in a row that you can be more certain people are unhappy.
It would seem to indicate that 20% to 25% is fairly normal. 10% is quite low, and many schools shoot for that as a target if they want to put themselves in the top rankings.
And be careful about the Ida that 25 new people out of 100 total means 25% turnover. In growth situations, maybe only 20 people actually left and 5 positions were new, so less than 20% turnover actually. If the school is shrinking, it would be higher than 25%. And all schools go through cycles, quite normally and naturally, so there might be several "smaller" years followed by a big turnover year, and it's still likely to be an awesome school. It's when you see multiple big years in a row that you can be more certain people are unhappy.
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
My current school has probably low turnover because of the money and savings potential. We have a lot of first overseas and first teaching job people here. My former school would vary. When I left, there happened to be a big move out that year, but not for a specific reason.
When looking at schools, I generally tend to favour schools that have a good mix...a few people staying on for the long haul, most probably in the 4-10 year range, a few that move on after initial contract. I want a school where people are ready to commit to growing and learning and contributing, but who are not afraid to move on to something different. Really low turnover can (depending on the school) be a sign of stagnant teaching. Consistent high turnover can be a danger sign.
When looking at schools, I generally tend to favour schools that have a good mix...a few people staying on for the long haul, most probably in the 4-10 year range, a few that move on after initial contract. I want a school where people are ready to commit to growing and learning and contributing, but who are not afraid to move on to something different. Really low turnover can (depending on the school) be a sign of stagnant teaching. Consistent high turnover can be a danger sign.
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
The turnover I see at my school is with the international teachers. The local hires tend to stay quite a while. Despite being a school who claims to be the best in the country, there is no established curriculum to work with, let alone follow. Every year the curriculum is re-created. I came to the school and there were no paper files to follow, no text books, no computer files. What did the previous teacher use??? There is a curriculum director, but his presence is not felt. The Director can't seem to get it together and lead our school. Each site admin has a different view on what needs to be done in order to be a strong school. We get thanked all the time for our efforts, but the words mean nothing. The housing stipend doesn't cover the housing costs, and it's taxed so it's less than the contract states. The fact that the school has been around for decades, and still teachers having to create new curriculum, makes this a school MANY international hire teachers are happy to leave after their initial contract is over.
Response
Elite Tier Schools less than 10% (some can go a whole recruiting season without hiring anyone)
First tier schools are about 10%
Second tier schools about 25%
Third Tier Schools More than 25% (and usually a lot more).
First tier schools are about 10%
Second tier schools about 25%
Third Tier Schools More than 25% (and usually a lot more).
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
You didn't say what region you're curious about but I've lived in the ME since 2011 & the turn over rate is extremely high. Some folks love it & intend to stay for a "long time" whatever that means, while others run screaming into the night & back to their home countries. The vast majority honor their countries & then leave.
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
One of the few pieces of academic research examining the question of rates or turnover at international schools was conducted my Mancusso (2010) who looked just at member schools of NESA (Middle East and Sub-Continent). His research found that those schools reported an average of 17% annual teacher turnover. Interestingly this matches the rate of turnover found in the US by the best research available (Ingersoll, 2008).
My current school, a large American School in the UAE has averaged 20% over the past three years.
My current school, a large American School in the UAE has averaged 20% over the past three years.
Last edited by Sherloq on Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?
Thanks everyone for your insights. 25% turnover doesn't seem too bad then!