For profit, 3rd tier schools
For profit, 3rd tier schools
Hello, I need info on 3rd tier for-profit schools--how bad is it working there? I feel like there are things that go on that I am not considering, but I would like to be in the know. Any details? Do most of the lower tier schools expect teachers to freely give high marks and "assist" with exams? 6-day workweeks and long schedules? What else goes on? I have heard of not being able to voice opinions and being yelled at by admin, parents, and even students. I am not looking to work at SAS or ISKL, but am looking to break in the field at a school with decent (decent is subjective I suppose) working conditions and compensation. Although my passion is teaching, my experience level may only provide opportunities at 3rd tier schools.
Re: For profit, 3rd tier schools
I suggest you not concern yourself with the silly "tier" system, which is simply based on opinion. Research locations and schools you're interested in that have openings for you, figure out if the package would suit you, and apply.
Why on earth are you selling yourself so short?? You're going to have to present yourself with a lot more confidence if you expect to get anywhere. Start with "My passion is teaching."
Why on earth are you selling yourself so short?? You're going to have to present yourself with a lot more confidence if you expect to get anywhere. Start with "My passion is teaching."
Re: For profit, 3rd tier schools
Thanks heyteach! I guess I do need a confidence boost :( I have narrowed it down to 4 countries and specific cities, but as I look at the profiles of the teachers....8 years, 16 years, PYP experience it makes me feel like I don't have much to offer.
To all: I am pretty flexible, and don't complain much. I actually could work at a school without a formal curriculum, or even textbooks--I have tons of materials and I have often substituted for different grade levels without lesson plans with 1 minute notice! I respect the "for-profit" aspect because at the end of the day that's what matters in keeping the school open to educate the children. I could even have my paycheck late for a week or two, although I prefer not! However, being yelled and flat out lying about grades is another story....Please provide feedback, in general which behaviors are most widespread and more likely to occur, and what seems to be more isolated to certain schools or regions. Thanks in advance.
To all: I am pretty flexible, and don't complain much. I actually could work at a school without a formal curriculum, or even textbooks--I have tons of materials and I have often substituted for different grade levels without lesson plans with 1 minute notice! I respect the "for-profit" aspect because at the end of the day that's what matters in keeping the school open to educate the children. I could even have my paycheck late for a week or two, although I prefer not! However, being yelled and flat out lying about grades is another story....Please provide feedback, in general which behaviors are most widespread and more likely to occur, and what seems to be more isolated to certain schools or regions. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by josephine on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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teacherguy
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:11 am
Re: For profit, 3rd tier schools
I think everyone has different experiences and perceptions about for profit schools. I can only share mine-
NEVER AGAIN!
I'd rather not work or work at a school in the USA over working ever again at a for profit school. I put my first two years of international teaching in at one in Egypt. Horrible experience. But I toughed it out to get those vital two years in. My school was a business first, a school second. Yes, grades were changed. How can you stay in business if you're not providing happy customers? The happy customers are parents paying for good grades, not a good education. (Again, this is my view, based on teaching in Egypt.) I was never asked or told to change a grade. The principal would just do it later. What made it doubly hard was my students knew this. Why work when you're going to pass no matter what?
At my school everything was based around money and saving money. I was given my supplies at the beginning if the year. I had to turn them all back in again the end of the year. Every used up white board marker, pencil stub, and empty pen. If not turned in I was charged for the item. If a student did not turn in their textbook at the end if the year, I was charged for it. Every copy that I wanted done, every single one, had to be signed off on by the principal. My pay was awful, but it was on time. (Fortunately Egypt was a cheap country to live in.) The school did manage to skew the contract so I was paid less though. My housing stipend was pathetic. My health insurance was a joke. Every student who applied to the school was accepted. Almost no English? No problem. Kicked out of four other schools because of violent behavior? No problem. You pay, you are in.
I was screamed at by the owner, whose management style seemed to be "humiliate to get results." I was threatened by parents. Very powerful parents. When poor mid-term reports went out. (Those couldn't be flubbed by the school.) I had students who would just laugh at my attempts at management and teaching. It was tough. But I also had great students, worked with great fellow teachers, and did have parents who truly wanted their child to learn.
The first year I told myself I was going to quit pretty much every day on the way home from work. The second year I kind of let go and went with the flow. I taught to the best of my ability, the kids that wanted to learn did learn, the rest still passed my classes, but I can hold my head high and know I tried.
I will say that I was not worked very hard. I've refused to even apply for for profit schools since Egypt, and have been lucky to work for non-profit schools since then. (Most good, some almost as bad.) I was and am worked far harder at the .org schools. There are much higher expectations for the staff from administration and parents.
NEVER AGAIN!
I'd rather not work or work at a school in the USA over working ever again at a for profit school. I put my first two years of international teaching in at one in Egypt. Horrible experience. But I toughed it out to get those vital two years in. My school was a business first, a school second. Yes, grades were changed. How can you stay in business if you're not providing happy customers? The happy customers are parents paying for good grades, not a good education. (Again, this is my view, based on teaching in Egypt.) I was never asked or told to change a grade. The principal would just do it later. What made it doubly hard was my students knew this. Why work when you're going to pass no matter what?
At my school everything was based around money and saving money. I was given my supplies at the beginning if the year. I had to turn them all back in again the end of the year. Every used up white board marker, pencil stub, and empty pen. If not turned in I was charged for the item. If a student did not turn in their textbook at the end if the year, I was charged for it. Every copy that I wanted done, every single one, had to be signed off on by the principal. My pay was awful, but it was on time. (Fortunately Egypt was a cheap country to live in.) The school did manage to skew the contract so I was paid less though. My housing stipend was pathetic. My health insurance was a joke. Every student who applied to the school was accepted. Almost no English? No problem. Kicked out of four other schools because of violent behavior? No problem. You pay, you are in.
I was screamed at by the owner, whose management style seemed to be "humiliate to get results." I was threatened by parents. Very powerful parents. When poor mid-term reports went out. (Those couldn't be flubbed by the school.) I had students who would just laugh at my attempts at management and teaching. It was tough. But I also had great students, worked with great fellow teachers, and did have parents who truly wanted their child to learn.
The first year I told myself I was going to quit pretty much every day on the way home from work. The second year I kind of let go and went with the flow. I taught to the best of my ability, the kids that wanted to learn did learn, the rest still passed my classes, but I can hold my head high and know I tried.
I will say that I was not worked very hard. I've refused to even apply for for profit schools since Egypt, and have been lucky to work for non-profit schools since then. (Most good, some almost as bad.) I was and am worked far harder at the .org schools. There are much higher expectations for the staff from administration and parents.
Re: For profit, 3rd tier schools
Dear Josephine
There is a qualitative difference between 'for profit' and 'the school is a business and must therefore be sustainable' - which would be philosophically appropriate for any private school.
The difference is that some owners of 'for profit' schools are not qualified educators themselves. They are people 'playing at' school based on their own experiences sometime mid-20th century, and they do not value teachers as professionals who work with children/ young people. Immediately this results in a philosophical clash between how to provide the best learning for students (i.e., through quality teachers, who should be encouraged of stay many years - and that requires recognising that these professionals should be trusted and provided with some real ownership of the curriculum/ student welfare etc).
Do reflect on teacherguy's experience and some of the posts you are considering. Some 'for profit' owners are relatively benign and genuinely well-meaning, and some schools espouse missions that may align with yours philosophically and politically. In the end, small for-profit enterprises can be professionally isolating because they are not aligned with big systems (eg US state education), and big chains of for-profit enterprises may just treat you like a cog in a machine. Consider every year of you professional life as precious, and reflect carefully what you will gain from it. Being prepared to work in very poor school with unprofessional practice could be a black mark on your cv.
There is a qualitative difference between 'for profit' and 'the school is a business and must therefore be sustainable' - which would be philosophically appropriate for any private school.
The difference is that some owners of 'for profit' schools are not qualified educators themselves. They are people 'playing at' school based on their own experiences sometime mid-20th century, and they do not value teachers as professionals who work with children/ young people. Immediately this results in a philosophical clash between how to provide the best learning for students (i.e., through quality teachers, who should be encouraged of stay many years - and that requires recognising that these professionals should be trusted and provided with some real ownership of the curriculum/ student welfare etc).
Do reflect on teacherguy's experience and some of the posts you are considering. Some 'for profit' owners are relatively benign and genuinely well-meaning, and some schools espouse missions that may align with yours philosophically and politically. In the end, small for-profit enterprises can be professionally isolating because they are not aligned with big systems (eg US state education), and big chains of for-profit enterprises may just treat you like a cog in a machine. Consider every year of you professional life as precious, and reflect carefully what you will gain from it. Being prepared to work in very poor school with unprofessional practice could be a black mark on your cv.
Re: For profit, 3rd tier schools
teacherguy wrote:
> The school did manage to skew the contract so I was paid less though.
I've read this in various reviews....do you mind elaborating? I am wondering how they justify changing the terms/payscale and if there is anything that can be done to prevent it. Thanks
> The school did manage to skew the contract so I was paid less though.
I've read this in various reviews....do you mind elaborating? I am wondering how they justify changing the terms/payscale and if there is anything that can be done to prevent it. Thanks
Re: For profit, 3rd tier schools
SuzieQ wrote:
>Consider every year of you
> professional life as precious, and reflect carefully what you will gain
> from it. Being prepared to work in very poor school with unprofessional
> practice could be a black mark on your cv.
Thanks SuzieQ, I will take your advice to heart.
>Consider every year of you
> professional life as precious, and reflect carefully what you will gain
> from it. Being prepared to work in very poor school with unprofessional
> practice could be a black mark on your cv.
Thanks SuzieQ, I will take your advice to heart.