In reading through the ISR reviews of schools, especially just going through the newest reviews, I have the impression that about 90% of international schools are absolute hell to teach at. What gives?
Sure, there are a few excellent reviews out there of well-known top-tier schools, or reviews that only list a few minor complaints, but a great many reviews seem to end with "do NOT come teach at this school if you know what is good for you".
I have little experience with this--the school I am at is my first school, it had only one review on ISR when I accepted the job, the review was positive and I really like teaching at this school.
OTOH a colleague who also started this year taught at a school in Thailand that has awful reviews, and she seemed to enjoy teaching there.
What is going on here?
Are there really *that* many horrible schools?
ISR Reviews are ofter written by people who are leaving a school and often leaving b/c it hasn't worked out for them or they are not happy with something. I have worked at two schools that I have enjoyed and the majority of the faculty are really happy but have a couple of bad reviews...and everyone on staff can tell you who wrote them.
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antitravolta
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:35 am
- Location: United States
I think there are some things you can generally infer about any reviews. First, any teacher who has been at a school for a decade and loves it doesn't even think about this site or anything similar because they are happy and not interested in leaving. Second, people don't generally run to the Internet to praise something...they run to trash it. Make your own statements about human nature here. Third, hardly any schools have that many reviews to be something you would consider a representative sample. I joined the site to get information about the schools, but after seeing the reviews, I don't take them very seriously. The most useful tool for me is maybe giving me ideas of questions to ask faculty at a school before I sign a contract. Unless there is a very large sample of recent reviews all saying the same thing, I don't take it very seriously anymore.
The first time I read the reviews I thought I would skip ever teaching overseas. Then I went back and re-read them with a more critical eye, and realized that the majority were written by misfits who would probably never be happy anywhere. The amount of hearsay and nitpicking in many of the reviews should be a tip-off.
When I got my current job, someone thought they should "warn" me about the school and showed me the bad reviews. I shrugged it off. The school isn't a great one, but quite do-able, and many of the staff stay past their contracts.
When I got my current job, someone thought they should "warn" me about the school and showed me the bad reviews. I shrugged it off. The school isn't a great one, but quite do-able, and many of the staff stay past their contracts.
Lets face it, us teachers are a moaning bunch. Some more so than others, but in the eyes of many there can never be enough resources, the naughty kids are never dealt with well enough, the principals never have enough attention to staff... the list goes on and on, and I moaned a lot too in my first couple of international schools. Part of it comes down to the fact and reality of working in for profit education. That's hard to get used to, and the more businesslike the school, the harder it can be to get used to it. However, some people still just moan no matter what happens. A woman at the school where I work, which is a decent school (not elite, but certainly good) has moaned about everything which most people don't have a problem with, and she's exactly the kind of person to go out of her way to write a scathing review. For me though, I feel that if a school has been around for 5 years or more and only got 1 or 2 people who have been upset enough to post a review then that's not bad at all. For sure, if you've got a few people coming in with the same points then you want to be careful, but read them carefully and try to read between the lines. Ask yourself, is his person reporting the problem, or were they the problem.
Decide what is most important to you, and if these things seem compromised from the reviews then avoid the school. For example, for me, getting paid late is an absolute deal breaker. I turn up for work early every day, so I find getting paid late the most disrespectful violation of the most basic employment agreement. If I read a review which reports people getting paid late then I will avoid the school. I don't care if the principal is sociable or unsociable, I don't care if the boss has favorites, I don't care if the boss takes time off to go and do other things, and I don't have loads of sympathy for the people who move overseas and then constantly moan to colleagues, supervisors, parents and students because their school on the edge of a rice field in southern China doesn't have enough plastic clocks for teaching time, and the local director doesn't give teachers all the same rights they get at home (and after they don't get their contract renewed they write to ISR arguing that anyone fighting for teachers rights is this school is silenced). I have even less patience when they moan constantly for 2 years and then decide to sign up for an extra year. However, if people are getting paid late, I can't be there. That's what's important to me. One of my colleagues recently decided not to renew because the school were moving teachers into different apartments for the second time in 2 years. To me it's annoying, but to my colleague it's her deal breaker, and fair enough.
I really appreciate this site and am grateful to those who run t. I love that after so long with nowhere to voice grievances, we finally have somewhere to let it all out. But, take it with a pinch of salt. There are a lot of good schools out there where you will be happy. My advice is, decide what's important to you and look out for it.
Decide what is most important to you, and if these things seem compromised from the reviews then avoid the school. For example, for me, getting paid late is an absolute deal breaker. I turn up for work early every day, so I find getting paid late the most disrespectful violation of the most basic employment agreement. If I read a review which reports people getting paid late then I will avoid the school. I don't care if the principal is sociable or unsociable, I don't care if the boss has favorites, I don't care if the boss takes time off to go and do other things, and I don't have loads of sympathy for the people who move overseas and then constantly moan to colleagues, supervisors, parents and students because their school on the edge of a rice field in southern China doesn't have enough plastic clocks for teaching time, and the local director doesn't give teachers all the same rights they get at home (and after they don't get their contract renewed they write to ISR arguing that anyone fighting for teachers rights is this school is silenced). I have even less patience when they moan constantly for 2 years and then decide to sign up for an extra year. However, if people are getting paid late, I can't be there. That's what's important to me. One of my colleagues recently decided not to renew because the school were moving teachers into different apartments for the second time in 2 years. To me it's annoying, but to my colleague it's her deal breaker, and fair enough.
I really appreciate this site and am grateful to those who run t. I love that after so long with nowhere to voice grievances, we finally have somewhere to let it all out. But, take it with a pinch of salt. There are a lot of good schools out there where you will be happy. My advice is, decide what's important to you and look out for it.
The school I work for in the ME has a mix of good and bad reviews. I can tell you from experience that it is an outstanding organization and superior to any US public school I have ever worked in. While each experience is different the vast majority of the 300 teachers in my current school have been there for 4 or more years. The quality of teachers is mostly high with the ones that are not up to par washing out or leaving after their first two years. The students, which seem to be bashed time and time again in the negative posts, are the best the country I teach in has to offer and not nearly as bad as the posts indicate. I find ISR to be more of a complaint board thus take each review with a grain of salt.
No matter where you go if you go in with a closed mind and not open to the quirks of whatever culture you step in to then you are going to be unhappy.
No matter where you go if you go in with a closed mind and not open to the quirks of whatever culture you step in to then you are going to be unhappy.
Great feedback, and I read the long post all the way through!
Yes, I agree that teachers are a moaning bunch. I really like teaching at the school where I am, but I do hear other teachers there, quite good teachers IMO, say that it isn't a very good school. Sure, there is room for improvement, and I think that improvement is happening, but the status quo is far from terrible.
I do agree that being paid late is a deal-breaker. I would like to know that the school provides help with documentation, and I think my next school also should either provide housing or a substantial housing assistance payment, and in the latter case should provide some help with locating housing.
Beyond that, if they leave me alone to teach, I'm happy.
Yes, I agree that teachers are a moaning bunch. I really like teaching at the school where I am, but I do hear other teachers there, quite good teachers IMO, say that it isn't a very good school. Sure, there is room for improvement, and I think that improvement is happening, but the status quo is far from terrible.
I do agree that being paid late is a deal-breaker. I would like to know that the school provides help with documentation, and I think my next school also should either provide housing or a substantial housing assistance payment, and in the latter case should provide some help with locating housing.
Beyond that, if they leave me alone to teach, I'm happy.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
The thing you need to realize is that you MUST read between the lines. The truth is somewhere between the "this school is hell" and "this school is heaven". However, when you see consistently the same reviews over a four to six year period, then you begin to get a sense that this perhaps is not a school you would like to work at. There are a few schools like this which come to mind.
You also get a sense of when certain directors are mentioned negatively at different schools (because they do move too) and then right afterwards the reviews are glowing and cheery and have similar language to all of them, that the director is doing a bunch of upbeat reviews...
Again, once you have been around and read the reviews, lived the life, you will be able to be a discerning reader of reviews...
You also get a sense of when certain directors are mentioned negatively at different schools (because they do move too) and then right afterwards the reviews are glowing and cheery and have similar language to all of them, that the director is doing a bunch of upbeat reviews...
Again, once you have been around and read the reviews, lived the life, you will be able to be a discerning reader of reviews...
I've found a good balance on the reviews that I read for the schools that I am/was interviewing for. I'm not the type of person that will bash anything and I always stay positive. That tends to keep me out of trouble and under the radar. I don't make any waves, and I just do my job. Some people that is tough for. I don't even vent, or get negative with my colleagues and I have a strict policy of not socializing with colleagues outside of work. We try to make our own friends in the community. Way too many times I have seen colleagues become friends, something goes wrong, and the bad blood spills over into the work place.
I've worked for principals that are amazing leaders and others that weren't and I've never, ever left a school with a bridge burned. I find that even in situations that are not ideal that if you can focus on the positives that they can make the negatives seem less important.
My secret is to find a very healthy lifestyle outside of work and use my days off and breaks to dive right into that lifestyle with the people that I love most, my family. It's not easy for some, but if you try to explore something new, weather cultural, or culinary, or spiritual, you can turn the not so good situations into really amazing experiences.
And it is the experiences that most of us international teachers are after.
I've worked for principals that are amazing leaders and others that weren't and I've never, ever left a school with a bridge burned. I find that even in situations that are not ideal that if you can focus on the positives that they can make the negatives seem less important.
My secret is to find a very healthy lifestyle outside of work and use my days off and breaks to dive right into that lifestyle with the people that I love most, my family. It's not easy for some, but if you try to explore something new, weather cultural, or culinary, or spiritual, you can turn the not so good situations into really amazing experiences.
And it is the experiences that most of us international teachers are after.
Shadowjack is right. What I try to do after I am offered a position is Skype or email a few teachers at the school before making a final decision.
Usually people on the ground can provide some insight into certain problems mentioned in the reviews for the school. These contacts can also tell you what to bring in terms of resources and what items are really difficult to find in your possible new place of residence.
Usually people on the ground can provide some insight into certain problems mentioned in the reviews for the school. These contacts can also tell you what to bring in terms of resources and what items are really difficult to find in your possible new place of residence.
Reply
Yes there really are that many horrible schools. What makes that statement true though is in the definitions, in so much that that school was horrible to a certain teacher in regards to specific complaints. Like any organization, the majority of teachers are either happy, or at least neutral, with a minority of unhappy or angry teachers.
Consider it the 98/2 rule. Which means for every 100 of anything (students, teachers, parents, etc) 98 of them are going to be okay with what you say or do and 2 are going to fight you on it.
first, every school even the elite schools have complainers. Second this site is a "complaints" department. teachers use it to vent and extract a certain amount of revenge on a school they have perceived to have wronged them.
No review is about as good a review as a school gets.
Old reviews usually mean the problem was isolated or fixed.
Overly positive reviews are usually admins or cheerleaders attempting to counter-balance negative reviews.
What you need to do with the reviews is identify whats important to you (whats a deal breaker) and whats subjective and objective. Where as one person might consider being payed late a deal breaker they have to walk on, some one else could care less if their salary is a couple days late. What one person might describe an admin as being a tyrant (because the teacher thinks they have american expectations or laws and policies) might think the same admin is pretty cool (because they are a bobble head and keep their head down). Objective problems are easier to deal with and understand (even if a late pay day doesnt bother you, its still late). Subjective problems usually boil down to personality conflicts. This is why recruiters despite being 2013 still spend money on face to face interviews. We could say that "fit" really means personality fit.
When looking at subjective issues consistent reviews that address the same issue at one time are stronger indicators of real problems. Long term repetitive reviews of the same complaints strongly indicate a school environment that isnt going to change, its just how that school does business (a new head might change that of course). Both depending on who you are, should be signs of an impending train wreck ahead.
Consider it the 98/2 rule. Which means for every 100 of anything (students, teachers, parents, etc) 98 of them are going to be okay with what you say or do and 2 are going to fight you on it.
first, every school even the elite schools have complainers. Second this site is a "complaints" department. teachers use it to vent and extract a certain amount of revenge on a school they have perceived to have wronged them.
No review is about as good a review as a school gets.
Old reviews usually mean the problem was isolated or fixed.
Overly positive reviews are usually admins or cheerleaders attempting to counter-balance negative reviews.
What you need to do with the reviews is identify whats important to you (whats a deal breaker) and whats subjective and objective. Where as one person might consider being payed late a deal breaker they have to walk on, some one else could care less if their salary is a couple days late. What one person might describe an admin as being a tyrant (because the teacher thinks they have american expectations or laws and policies) might think the same admin is pretty cool (because they are a bobble head and keep their head down). Objective problems are easier to deal with and understand (even if a late pay day doesnt bother you, its still late). Subjective problems usually boil down to personality conflicts. This is why recruiters despite being 2013 still spend money on face to face interviews. We could say that "fit" really means personality fit.
When looking at subjective issues consistent reviews that address the same issue at one time are stronger indicators of real problems. Long term repetitive reviews of the same complaints strongly indicate a school environment that isnt going to change, its just how that school does business (a new head might change that of course). Both depending on who you are, should be signs of an impending train wreck ahead.
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joethelion
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:21 am
Yes, all what people say here is smart.
Anyone can complain. Some people can write three negitive reviews of one school. Also administrators can write great stories about their own school. ISR is only a site to give you ideas about what to watch out for.
But when some schools have many major warnings from definitely different peoples, you should be careful.
Look at reviews for
Horizon--all schools (run by Turkish Islamists for political goals)
American International School Vietnam
International School Myanmar
Escuela San Pedrano Honduras
These schools (with many others) have many people who are not liking what they found there. Of course any school might be good for YOU. Or maybe there are new principals and directors who make a good difference.
But particularly with for-profit schools, be careful and ask many questions. Ask for an email list of faculties and to randomly contact them. If director at one of these schools says no, that might tell you something.
I wish ISR was not so lazy and put the most recent reviews first. It seem unfair when a school with problems in 2002 shows up with ten terrible reviews first that say nothing about the school today
But when some schools have many major warnings from definitely different peoples, you should be careful.
Look at reviews for
Horizon--all schools (run by Turkish Islamists for political goals)
American International School Vietnam
International School Myanmar
Escuela San Pedrano Honduras
These schools (with many others) have many people who are not liking what they found there. Of course any school might be good for YOU. Or maybe there are new principals and directors who make a good difference.
But particularly with for-profit schools, be careful and ask many questions. Ask for an email list of faculties and to randomly contact them. If director at one of these schools says no, that might tell you something.
I wish ISR was not so lazy and put the most recent reviews first. It seem unfair when a school with problems in 2002 shows up with ten terrible reviews first that say nothing about the school today