Hello I'm new to this forum and I have read quite a few reviews on here. I will to start counseling at a international school next year. What are my chances of getting hired when I'm a single mom ( divorced) with one dependent . Also I have noticed that a lot of African Americans are not hired for overseas positions. I truly do not want to spend my money on a fair if my race, dependent is not on my side. Also I have been applying to schools directly is it possible to save fair money and get hired through Skype.
This is my 9 th year in education and third year counseling.
Please honest feedback
Thanks
Counseling with a dependent
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eion_padraig
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I met a woman this past summer on a college visit who is a single mom working as a school counselor. She was starting at a new school and I know that she had at least two previous overseas placements. Her kid was in middle school or maybe high school. She is the only one I know, but I don't always find out about a counselor's family situation when I meet them.
I also know an African American counselor working at an international school in Europe. She previously worked at other international schools in different regions.
These situations could be outliers. The fact that I haven't met many others (single mothers, African Americans) may speak to the bias you're thinking about. I know a lot of African Americans working as school counselors and college counselors in US independent schools, but I only know the one off the top of my head working in an international school. But it's hard to say if that is about bias, or who is likely to look overseas. It could be the same issue with single mothers.
I know a lot of counselors who get hired outside of the fair system after their first job overseas, but many of them have gotten hired prior to the fairs.
I also know an African American counselor working at an international school in Europe. She previously worked at other international schools in different regions.
These situations could be outliers. The fact that I haven't met many others (single mothers, African Americans) may speak to the bias you're thinking about. I know a lot of African Americans working as school counselors and college counselors in US independent schools, but I only know the one off the top of my head working in an international school. But it's hard to say if that is about bias, or who is likely to look overseas. It could be the same issue with single mothers.
I know a lot of counselors who get hired outside of the fair system after their first job overseas, but many of them have gotten hired prior to the fairs.
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newcounsel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 pm
Sorry
Every 6 months or o we get this issue and then i have to be the jerk to basically discuss why racism isnt dead...
Your race will be an issue, sure the top tier schools value diversity, but in the bowels of the second and third tiers to many parents (the ones paying tuition) that are mostly comprised of local students a western teacher means a white teacher. Im sorry, but pretending racism doesnt exist isnt going to make it go away.
Counseling is a hard position to fill and in demand, especially if you have college advising experience. My standard advice is too apply with schools, and see what advance interest you get as far as the fairs go. I think you will be successful, but its not going to be as easy for you and your going to need to be very open about where you go.
Include a picture of yourself. I heard one woman last year who was fuming mad, because she got an advance interview invitation for a school in China and when she showed up for the interview, the recruiter said they had an interview ahead of time, so shes waiting and a couple minutes later they come out and ask who she is and she tells them and the recruiter (Now i dont think this person was the head of the school) but made the comment something along the lines of "we thought you were white". So apologies go around they sit down, they talk, and needless to say she didnt get the offer.
Having any number of dependents makes it harder. school like teaching couples, then singles, then those with kids. The more kids the more exponentially hard it gets. Your not in that bad of a position though, there are people with far more logistical family issues then you.
Many teachers get hired through Skype, without ever going to a fair, its more common with those who have experience, but for hard to fill and in demand positions its vary likely to get hired before the fairs begin. Personally, if money is an issue, based on your resume I dont think you really need a fair.
Your race will be an issue, sure the top tier schools value diversity, but in the bowels of the second and third tiers to many parents (the ones paying tuition) that are mostly comprised of local students a western teacher means a white teacher. Im sorry, but pretending racism doesnt exist isnt going to make it go away.
Counseling is a hard position to fill and in demand, especially if you have college advising experience. My standard advice is too apply with schools, and see what advance interest you get as far as the fairs go. I think you will be successful, but its not going to be as easy for you and your going to need to be very open about where you go.
Include a picture of yourself. I heard one woman last year who was fuming mad, because she got an advance interview invitation for a school in China and when she showed up for the interview, the recruiter said they had an interview ahead of time, so shes waiting and a couple minutes later they come out and ask who she is and she tells them and the recruiter (Now i dont think this person was the head of the school) but made the comment something along the lines of "we thought you were white". So apologies go around they sit down, they talk, and needless to say she didnt get the offer.
Having any number of dependents makes it harder. school like teaching couples, then singles, then those with kids. The more kids the more exponentially hard it gets. Your not in that bad of a position though, there are people with far more logistical family issues then you.
Many teachers get hired through Skype, without ever going to a fair, its more common with those who have experience, but for hard to fill and in demand positions its vary likely to get hired before the fairs begin. Personally, if money is an issue, based on your resume I dont think you really need a fair.
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expatteacher99
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:46 am
I have worked with a few single mothers and single fathers in the past, but like others have said, there doesn't seem to be an abundance of them in international schools. It seems that it really would depend on the school and their priorities. Like PsyGuy already mentioned, you're in a good position as a counselor because you are in demand. You would likely have a much harder time if you were applying for a job such as an elementary teacher or middle school language arts teacher.
Good luck!
Good luck!
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newcounsel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 pm
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vettievette
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:31 am
I'm a Filipino American counselor in a school in Central Asia. While I agree that some schools carry a bias, I also think that there is simply not as much people of color applying for positions overseas - not as much as there should be. When I went to the Search Fair in Cambridge there were definitely more White candidates than anything else. That being said, I have met a few people of color - African American, South Asian, etc. in counseling positions overseas at conferences, trainings, and online. One of the founders of the International School Counselors' Association is Cheryl Brown - an African American who is high school counselor at Shanghai American School. My predecessor is African American. It may not be high in numbers, but there are people out there.
Have a look at this site:
http://iscainfo.org/index.html
Am sure Cheryl's email is on there and she'd be more than happy to answer any questions you might have.
Have a look at this site:
http://iscainfo.org/index.html
Am sure Cheryl's email is on there and she'd be more than happy to answer any questions you might have.
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newcounsel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 pm
thank you for the feedback... Should I attend the UNI fair a couple of the schools that I am looking at will be present. Search is giving me the run around with my status and I do not want to miss the deadline on other services beacuse of this. My search advisor Marie Bogat wants one more reference after I sent 5 to her already, after that she will put me on the waitlist for Cambridge. So I really do not want to take my chances... If it is possible for me to get a job at UNI I will like to attend that. Any feedback about UNI will be great
Thank you
Thank you
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Newcounsel,
I cannot offer advice about the fair since I've not gone to one, but make sure you are sending out letters of interest to places now. Some interviews are being conducted and offers are being made to some counselors already for jobs posted on Search and TIEonline. I only know of it happening anecdotally, so it may not be widespread.
Be aware that other counseling jobs are likely to appear, so don't lose hope. I know a number of folks who are likely leaving their counseling jobs at tier 1 and tier 2 schools, but whose schools have not yet posted tentative openings.
Cheryl, who vettievette mentioned, was the woman whom I was speaking about. She moved on from Shanghai American School to Europe a year or two back.
Good luck.
I cannot offer advice about the fair since I've not gone to one, but make sure you are sending out letters of interest to places now. Some interviews are being conducted and offers are being made to some counselors already for jobs posted on Search and TIEonline. I only know of it happening anecdotally, so it may not be widespread.
Be aware that other counseling jobs are likely to appear, so don't lose hope. I know a number of folks who are likely leaving their counseling jobs at tier 1 and tier 2 schools, but whose schools have not yet posted tentative openings.
Cheryl, who vettievette mentioned, was the woman whom I was speaking about. She moved on from Shanghai American School to Europe a year or two back.
Good luck.
Wait list?
[quote="newcounsel"]thank you for the feedback... Should I attend the UNI fair a couple of the schools that I am looking at will be present. Search is giving me the run around with my status and I do not want to miss the deadline on other services beacuse of this. My search advisor Marie Bogat wants one more reference after I sent 5 to her already, after that she will put me on the waitlist for Cambridge. So I really do not want to take my chances... If it is possible for me to get a job at UNI I will like to attend that. Any feedback about UNI will be great
Thank you[/quote]
So there is a wait list for Cambridge? Why is she requesting so many references?
Thank you[/quote]
So there is a wait list for Cambridge? Why is she requesting so many references?
Reply
Where do you want to teach?
The UNI fair is generally for inexperienced teachers and new graduates (0-2 years). The schools are generally 2nd and 3rd tier schools from S/C america, the ME and smaller cities in Asia.
The Cambridge fair is generally tier 2 schools with a few tier 1 schools sprinkled in. Its heavy on schools in Asia, there are a sprinkling of lower tier european schools and some of the higher tier S/C america and ME schools.
There really isnt an issue here though, because your wait listed for BOS, and since its not full yet (and theyre giving you the run around) going to the Cambridge fair isnt an option really. The real choice is spend your money to go to the UNI fair, or save the money and apply/interview from home.
I see two outcomes here: 1) You go to the fair and you get a position at a lower tiered/less desirable school, but you have a contract. This option has lower risk, but lower potential outcomes. 2) You wait out the schools and get an offer a better school but you have a higher risk of not getting an offer, or only have the bottom tier schools as recruiting closes.
The UNI fair is generally for inexperienced teachers and new graduates (0-2 years). The schools are generally 2nd and 3rd tier schools from S/C america, the ME and smaller cities in Asia.
The Cambridge fair is generally tier 2 schools with a few tier 1 schools sprinkled in. Its heavy on schools in Asia, there are a sprinkling of lower tier european schools and some of the higher tier S/C america and ME schools.
There really isnt an issue here though, because your wait listed for BOS, and since its not full yet (and theyre giving you the run around) going to the Cambridge fair isnt an option really. The real choice is spend your money to go to the UNI fair, or save the money and apply/interview from home.
I see two outcomes here: 1) You go to the fair and you get a position at a lower tiered/less desirable school, but you have a contract. This option has lower risk, but lower potential outcomes. 2) You wait out the schools and get an offer a better school but you have a higher risk of not getting an offer, or only have the bottom tier schools as recruiting closes.
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newcounsel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 pm
Well she said that I need one more supervisor reference... So I will see what I can do about that and hopefully get in. Also, I do not really want to go to Aisa I would like to get my first international job somewhere else.
So where do all the tier 1 school attend for job fair.
Thanks again for all the feedback
So where do all the tier 1 school attend for job fair.
Thanks again for all the feedback
Comment
You need to ask her about your references, my feeling is she is asking for the additional reference because there is something "neutral" or non-positive about one of your other references.
Wen you say "I don't want t go to Asia" is there anywhere else you don't want to go? Are you only interested in Europe? There are a lot of tier 1 schools in Asia, saying no to that whole region doesn't leave a lot left.
You have the Middle East, which is great on money but bad on everything else. You have South and Central America, which has a warm tropical, laid back easy going lifestyle, but the money is low. You have Europe, which is as western as you can get, but there is no housing, taxes are high and most teachers just get by. These are very broad generalities.
The Bangkok (BKK) fair is the elite Search fair, but its closed, and if your getting the run around on the BOS fair, your not likely to get an invite to the BKK fair. London is the "euro" fair, but without an EU passport and some native European language fluency you would have a difficult time with the top tier schools. You didn't mention college advising experience either, which without would be a negative. Lastly, your dependent son is going to be a logistical issue. You would need a 2 bedroom flat, and you have to pay tax on his tuition waiver (which is easily a month salary).
Wen you say "I don't want t go to Asia" is there anywhere else you don't want to go? Are you only interested in Europe? There are a lot of tier 1 schools in Asia, saying no to that whole region doesn't leave a lot left.
You have the Middle East, which is great on money but bad on everything else. You have South and Central America, which has a warm tropical, laid back easy going lifestyle, but the money is low. You have Europe, which is as western as you can get, but there is no housing, taxes are high and most teachers just get by. These are very broad generalities.
The Bangkok (BKK) fair is the elite Search fair, but its closed, and if your getting the run around on the BOS fair, your not likely to get an invite to the BKK fair. London is the "euro" fair, but without an EU passport and some native European language fluency you would have a difficult time with the top tier schools. You didn't mention college advising experience either, which without would be a negative. Lastly, your dependent son is going to be a logistical issue. You would need a 2 bedroom flat, and you have to pay tax on his tuition waiver (which is easily a month salary).
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newcounsel
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 pm
She explained to me that I am missing a supervisor reference, that I had parent and co-workers but lacking enough supervisor. So i was able to slove that.
I might have to take a second look at Asia. I have always felt that as a African-American they look down on the race and I was trying to avoid that. But if they are open-minded I will be more than happy to see what wil come out of it.
I might have to take a second look at Asia. I have always felt that as a African-American they look down on the race and I was trying to avoid that. But if they are open-minded I will be more than happy to see what wil come out of it.