For Profit Schools

D. Vader · Post by **D. Vader** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:57 pm

I have read a lot of comments (mainly negative) regarding schools that are "for profit." This may seem like a silly question, but how does one know if a school is a "for profit" school? Would one find this posted on a school's website or might a director state this in an interview if asked? Since private schools are in fact businesses, don't most rely on profits to operate in the first place?

ichiro · Post by **ichiro** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:11 am

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IBRULES · Post by **IBRULES** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:43 pm

Vader,
This is good advice from this Ichiro person - surprising because he usually is an apologist for most of the ills of the international school system. As an international educator, former dean, and now IB coordinator with a 20 plus year career overseas, my advice is to steer clear of "for profit" and befor accepting any position be sure that you know where the profit will go - it almost ALWAYS does not go into salaries or even increased resources.

Remember that most schools in the international school system are hard up for good teachers at this period in time so be confident that you will find something.

ichiro · Post by **ichiro** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:03 am

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johnwest · Post by **johnwest** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:40 am

I have also seen the phrase "corporate-ran" and the word "proprietary" as descriptors of for-profits. I suspect there are several good for-profit schools out there, but, as has been stated above, the bottom line for a private school generally IS the bottom line...Nice to see that ichiro and IBRULES are on speaking terms again.

specialed · Post by **specialed** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:25 am

I'm going to agree, disagree, and redirect my answer to the question. I totally agree the "nonprofit" looks better when you first come across a school. After all, educators are professionals who work for the common good.

I disagree with the idea that almost all nonprofits are better - here's why. The only real difference between profit and nonprofit is literally the word profit. There is nothing stopping a nonprofit entity from taking that leftover money and giving bonuses to the board and administration. Leftover money does not have go to back into supplies, buildings, and teacher salaries. They can use that extra money to host dinners, trips, parties, admin bonuses, vacations, new housing for admin, etc. because it is giving back to the employees/board/etc. A nonprofit does not always equal high pay and great resources for the school. In fact it has been my experience that the average nonprofit is lagging behind in resources. I currently work at a "for profit school" and resources are very plentiful and the pay is reasonable. Do I wish I could get paid more? Sure I do, but if I am just after money, am I any better than a "for profit company" that is also after the money? I also hear time and time again about the School Boards at nonprofits and how much politics are involved with them. Just because they are a profit school does not mean they could care less about education. A nonprofit designation does not guarantee they care either.

This leads to my redirection idea. The question to really ask is, "Does the school have plentiful resources, is the pay reasonable, and do they care about their employees?" Are you better off at a nonprofit that treats its employees like dirt and has few supplies, or are you better off at a for profit school that takes care of the students and teachers? I've seen nonprofits with great supplies/pay/etc. and for profits with terrible supplies/pay/etc. I've also seen the reverse. It's the school that matters, not the words profit - nonprofit.

Before accepting a job at either type of school ask current teachers about supplies, pay, and treatment. If they are all good/great, what does it matter? I am still a teacher and do my very best to teach my students where I am now (a for profit). If I moved to a nonprofit, I am going to do my best to teach my students. Happiness and job satisfaction are the goals, not the school type.

If the school stinks, it does not matter what type it is, I don't want to work there. If everything is overall awesome, I don't care about the designation there either - it's awesome.

interteach · Post by **interteach** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:48 pm

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specialed · Post by **specialed** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:20 am

If it were only true most of the time...

Many countries really don't have much in the way of hard and fast rules - who you are carries a lot of weight. You used the word "responsible schools", well a responsible profit school would provide a good education and good working conditions for the teachers. Look at the pay side of this site and see how many "responsible schools" there are and how many comments there are about the school boards that are pain-in-the-necks.

I still say that the original poster is better off talking with current teachers and finding out how the school acts in real life. Do not worry about theoretical names that mean almost nothing in many countries. I am not saying for profits are the answer - the answer is to ask lots of questions and not assume that it is a good school because it is nonprofit - or bad because it is.

inspiration · Post by **inspiration** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:34 pm

I agree with specialed. I personally prefer non-profit ones, but there are some which are very keen to make money. 'Non-profit' surely doesn't mean they don't need money. Also the sound of 'non-profit schools' gives us impression that they are more educational, but there are sometimes opposite cases. It's important to observe a school with an open mind.

willinphil · Post by **willinphil** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:35 am

the school where i'm teaching in the philippines is supposedly set up as a not-for-profit school. I haven't checked the paperwork, but it is clearly a for-profit school with all of the negativity that the label implies.

I would assume that most of the embassy supported schools are non-profit.

in the end, i think that it does mean something, but you have to dig a bit to find out exactly what that is in each case.

Opal · Post by **Opal** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:46 am

The problem with embassy run schools is that the embassy staff can call the shots. The superintendent can get to be powerless.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:13 am

Most schools are tight with their money whatever they are!

However it is somewhat galling to work your backside off just to see the bosses arriving in a sparkling new Porsche/Mercedes/BMW/Whatever obviously paid for by the school when your last request for basic teaching materials was refused.