Correlation of salary/benefits package with school quality?

albymangels · Post by **albymangels** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:43 am

Wow, this forum has such potential but the lack of participation is disappointing!

Let's stir things up... :-)

I know this is quite a subjective topic but I have worked in both "lower end" and "higher end" international schools in terms of benefits/salaries and have found that there is no comparison in terms of quality. To put it simply, those international schools that offer better salaries and benefits seem to have "better" teachers and reputations as quality educational institutions. Of course, educators at the lower paying schools would disagree with this- no surprise there and my intention is not to criticize that population. Certainly there are some good educators at all schools, however, all I am saying is that there seems to be a higher proportion at the "good" schools. And this is not to say that all teachers at the "big boy" schools are top-notch either.

Reasons for this?

-Obviously most of the "best and brightest" will be drawn to the better schools, the desire to work with more competent educators, and in a "system" that treats them better

-Educators that feel taken care of better will obviously give more for the institution

-Good teachers at schools with poor pay/benes tend to be younger and leave very quickly to the better schools. Disappointing because those are exactly the types of folks you want to see stick around for longer than the initial 2 year contract! The rich get richer and the lower-tier schools are left scrambling for new candidates more often.

-You can't blame teachers for seeking better jobs as soon as possible as international school teachers in general need to be more careful in saving for retirement than our home country teachers. We don't have the nice pensions to fall back on in our 60s so it is imperative that we save as much as possible as early as possible.

I think there are many international schools that lose sight of this. Are there exceptions to this? Which ones? For example, when most international educators talk about Latin America they mention 4-5 decent schools that pay well and are quality schools, while the rest seem to have negative reputations.

johnwest · Post by **johnwest** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:10 pm

Gosh, you caught me! I'm one of those lower-quality teachers at one of those lower-quality schools...

The schools that pay better attract far more applicants than do those that do not pay as well. (Yes, it's my subjective opinion!) They are then more readily able to pick up the teaching couples that the lesser-paying schools would also like to hire. I do have to agree that better teachers DO tend to make for a better school! Thank goodness, the schools that have hired me have had ME to teach their kids. :)

Is there a single teaching female looking to get married so I can catch on with a top-tier school?

albymangels · Post by **albymangels** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:41 pm

I'm sure you're one of the exceptions, John. :-)

I knew this was going to stir things up but IN GENERAL I believe "those in the know" would agree that schools like Singapore American School in Singapore and/or the Graded School in Brazil are going to have access to better quality applicants than say... Escuela Sampedrana in Honduras or Bali International school in Indonesia, both of which offer poor packages (although located in intersting places).

Some international schools are simply more interested in keeping tuition as low as possible regardless of the quality of education and these are the schools that I avoid. Working with too many local hires and new teachers can be a drag.

johnwest · Post by **johnwest** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:32 am

I DO have a question on which some of y'all out there may have advice, though. It does deal with teacher quality, too. I have taught in schools where parents come to me to complain about other teachers. I have always told the parents that I cannot be involved in such an issue, that they need to go to the administrator if they have concerns. I then stay out of it, and do not even tell the involved teacher(s). I have been the administrator the last bit, so I have dealt with the issues directly, but I am now returning to being a fellow colleague. If this arises again, how should I deal with it? Continue to deflect and stay out of it, or approach the teacher(s) about whom the parent(s) has a concern, at least to let them know about the concern? Maybe I am inviting worry and I will not be in such a situation in my new school!

Traveller1 · Post by **Traveller1** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:08 am

Seen from a different perspective, if you take the international school scene as a whole, there are regional differences in pay and benefits that are not necessarily related to school 'quality'. By all accounts the packages of schools in the East tend, on average, to be far better than schools in Africa or South America. Schools in central and north western Europe pay far better than schools in eastern or southern Europe. Try comparing the package offered by schools in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, or Turkey to schools in London, Paris, Vienna, Copenhagen. No contest. However, large packages do not equate to large savings. Cost of living is a big factor in Europe, Japan, Moscow, and Korea amongst others.

There's at least one school in the East that's been compared to a bus running down a steep hill without a driver. Their package allows for savings of at least 20 to 25 K a year for a couple with a non-teaching spouse. Would this be possible in most international schools in London, New York, Rio, Moscow, Lusaka? Any one teacher families in Rome or Lome saving 25K a year?

As has been pointed out many international schools will only take a teacher with a non-teaching spouse, and one or two dependents, as a last resort. The top priority is often a couple with one partner being a High School Maths, Science or ICT/network/systems administrator and the other partner being a Primary teacher. Does this mean that all the teachers with a non teaching spouse and can't afford to live in Brussels on one salary are bad teachers?

With regards to couples being hired, often the decision is a 'bottom line' decision, and a school is willing to take the bad with the good because the whole is cheaper than two singles, or two teachers with non-teaching spouses.

Then we get to the question of good teaching. Are 'show ponies' good teachers? How about prima donnas? What about mavericks? They don't always go down very well, some administrators like a nice compliant group of 'yes men and women'. The whole question of 'good teaching' is a discussion on its own.

albymangels · Post by **albymangels** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:11 pm

All valid points, Traveller. Although I over-simplified my observations, there are obvious regional differences and other factors that need to be taken into account. With that all said, we could still easily compile a list of the top 50 international schools world wide based on perceived quality of education, and pay/benefits (which in my mind includes savings potential). The "lifestyle factor" of the destination is so subjective that I believe it would be nearly impossible to quantify since some people prefer an urban lifestyle vs. rural, hot climate vs. change of season, ocean vs. mountains, cultural preferences, proximity to home country, etc. etc.

I understand the "bottom line" decisions of some schools to hire a teaching couple to cut expenses but I can say that the top tier schools I work/worked at are/were willing to suck up the "extra" expense of a better qualified single candidate than hire a team with one questionable candidate. Now the "poor" school I worked for was definitely more interested in saving money and there was way more pressure from the board to do so. Indeed, the better schools I worked for always had a strong Head who was not afraid to communicate assertively to the board that a good school starts with good teachers.

Hey John- I believe you are smart to stay out of the "parent complaints" situation, unless it directly involves you. That's not your role and it could quickly blow up in your face, however well-intentioned you are. I would continue to deflect the situation by informing the parent that there is a process for this type of situation: First, try to resolve it with the teacher in question. If that intervention doesn't work, contact the Ass. Principal or Counselor (if your school has them), and then finally, the Principal. I'd be interested in hearing how other educators handle this situation.

marlow · Post by **marlow** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:41 pm

I think something that could be interesting to take into account is also the cultural differences of regions; in S. America, if the attitude is manana, wouldn't that attract teachers who are into that lifestyle, and thus they would be perceived as "lazy" by a teacher who enjoys the driven workstyle of a top-tier Asian school?

I think people get into this game with different attitudes, and goals. Teachers I've met who work in Europe are definitely into the cultural side of things, and the lifestyle some of the centers of Europe afford one; friends who have worked in Africa are the missionary types, who want to do NGO work whilst teaching. The S. American teachers I have known and worked with enjoy kicking off work at 3PM and enjoying the rest of the day, while the Asian schools I've worked in are packed with worker bees who enjoy being pushed (and pushing students) to the limit.

I think some of this is simply finding one's best niche according to local culture and the individual's personality.

calciodirigore · Post by **calciodirigore** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:47 pm

Just a quick comment about the sweeping generalizations made about South American Schools...

I've worked at two highly respected schools in SA and found my colleagues to be the most professional bunch of individuals I have ever come across. The admin team expected a tremendous amount from faculty and staff and the general atmosphere of each school was certainly not of the "maÃ±ana" variety.

On the other hand, I'm presently at a "top tier" European school and the labour laws coupled with the incredibly strict union watchdogs make for the most disastrous working environment I've ever been involved with. The word "unprofessional" doesn't begin to describe what I see on a daily basis.