@Dave: "Schrole was originally a spin off from SA, as a application management system that provided more inline with HR than it did with a jobs database for recruiting. SA didnt want to compete with itself for a lower priced product, since all the associates are essentially SA franchises. ISS has a different model, and their boutique experiences can handle growth out of the side shop. Its common for SA to appropriate businesses ideas and expansion that tests itself successfully in the market place."
Not quite sure what this is supposed to mean, since Davish isn't one of the languages I speak. Schrole wasn't a spin-off. It was the creation of a former SEARCH Associate who sold off his candidate portfolio and used the connections he'd made with school heads to sell his new product - which works particularly well for those schools that receive many hundreds of teacher applications each recruiting season and are looking for an online warehouse to store all these in the same format.
For some while, SEARCH and Schrole were uneasy bedfellows, but tensions inevitably arose when schools began to tell their SEARCH candidates to apply through Schrole, complete Schrole reference protocols and then appoint teachers without crediting SEARCH. Hence the creation of APli, the declaration that SEARCH will no longer work with Schrole candidates, the alliance of Schrole and ISS and the revival of FairWars.
Signing with ISS
Comment
@Walter
"It was the creation of a former SEARCH Associate who sold off his candidate portfolio and used the connections he'd made with school heads to sell his new product - which works particularly well for those schools that receive many hundreds of teacher applications each recruiting season and are looking for an online warehouse to store all these in the same format".
Thats what a spin off is, some spin offs are friendly and some are adversarial. Otherwise, thanks for agreeing the numerous times Ive written that Schrole is an application management system.
SA has no means of regulating Schrole candidates, candidates dont have to tell SA they have a profile with Schrole.
Admin speak isnt a recognised langauge at all and you still dont know what you think you know or rep to know.
"It was the creation of a former SEARCH Associate who sold off his candidate portfolio and used the connections he'd made with school heads to sell his new product - which works particularly well for those schools that receive many hundreds of teacher applications each recruiting season and are looking for an online warehouse to store all these in the same format".
Thats what a spin off is, some spin offs are friendly and some are adversarial. Otherwise, thanks for agreeing the numerous times Ive written that Schrole is an application management system.
SA has no means of regulating Schrole candidates, candidates dont have to tell SA they have a profile with Schrole.
Admin speak isnt a recognised langauge at all and you still dont know what you think you know or rep to know.
Re: Signing with ISS
Well Dave, for me a spin-off is something like the relationship of GMail or Google Classroom to the original Google site rather than the hundreds of start-ups established by ex-Google employees. As for "agreeing" with you about the functionality of Schrole, this is rather like one of your "water is wet" claims. Since when has Schrole ever been anything else? Please don't credit yourself with some astute perception that no one else had quite grasped. As for "Admin speak" versus "Davish", I think most people would understand what I write since I am literate.
None of which is really important. What may be significant is the impact on the recruiting landscape and how messy the battle between ISS/Schrole and SEARCH/APli gets. Already, SEARCH have made it clear that schools using Schrole will not be able to post their jobs on the SEARCH website. Only a fool (wake up, I'm talking to you) would think that SEARCH will continue to shrug its shoulders as "their" candidates spot positions advertised on the SEARCH website, contact the schools, are told to apply through Schrole and then the schools refuse to pay any fee to SEARCH.
And to forestall the slew of comments, please know that I'm not defending this posture; it's simply a commercial inevitability.
None of which is really important. What may be significant is the impact on the recruiting landscape and how messy the battle between ISS/Schrole and SEARCH/APli gets. Already, SEARCH have made it clear that schools using Schrole will not be able to post their jobs on the SEARCH website. Only a fool (wake up, I'm talking to you) would think that SEARCH will continue to shrug its shoulders as "their" candidates spot positions advertised on the SEARCH website, contact the schools, are told to apply through Schrole and then the schools refuse to pay any fee to SEARCH.
And to forestall the slew of comments, please know that I'm not defending this posture; it's simply a commercial inevitability.
Reply
@Walter
Well when you get to post for me you can frame my contributions from any perspective you see fit, when that day comes I'll send you a friend request and until then my own counsel will I keep on what my contributions mean.
When Schrole was consultancy first before it has a service product thats when it was something else, thanks for the confirmation of your agreement. We have portion of readership that doesnt know or understand these events. When I post I ask WWAK (What Would Admin Know) and write accordingly.
You might want to look up what literate means, Im literate, and different proficiency in L2 and beyond arent indicative of literacy, not that your a literature or language IT and you would know, but like most topics you dont know what you think you know.
You know what financial - and leadership have in common, neither of them can predict whats going to happen in their perspective fields, thats why claims like "what may happen", especially coming from leadership mean nothing more than visions in a crystal ball.
ISs are not candidates, which was the subject of my previous claim, not ISs. ITs dont care about IS problems, SA, ISS, Apli, Schrole, TES, TIE, dream visions, LinkedIn none of those matter to ITs, why would ITs care what the name on the landing page is, as long as resumes get from here to there why would ITs care what happens in the board rooms between ISs and premium agencies. Not that it matters but the ISs will win, always have and always will, they have the coin, and its not like building a database an API and some marketing/advertising is hard. A fair war between ISs and agencies is like a FB flame war between 11 year old princesses over who is more popular, momentarily entertaining until the next eye blink.
Why would your claim of self evidency forestall anything, because you deem it so, because leadership always thinks their claim are self authenticating, The only inevitability is you nor anyone else knows whats going to happen or what the final outcome will be.
Well when you get to post for me you can frame my contributions from any perspective you see fit, when that day comes I'll send you a friend request and until then my own counsel will I keep on what my contributions mean.
When Schrole was consultancy first before it has a service product thats when it was something else, thanks for the confirmation of your agreement. We have portion of readership that doesnt know or understand these events. When I post I ask WWAK (What Would Admin Know) and write accordingly.
You might want to look up what literate means, Im literate, and different proficiency in L2 and beyond arent indicative of literacy, not that your a literature or language IT and you would know, but like most topics you dont know what you think you know.
You know what financial - and leadership have in common, neither of them can predict whats going to happen in their perspective fields, thats why claims like "what may happen", especially coming from leadership mean nothing more than visions in a crystal ball.
ISs are not candidates, which was the subject of my previous claim, not ISs. ITs dont care about IS problems, SA, ISS, Apli, Schrole, TES, TIE, dream visions, LinkedIn none of those matter to ITs, why would ITs care what the name on the landing page is, as long as resumes get from here to there why would ITs care what happens in the board rooms between ISs and premium agencies. Not that it matters but the ISs will win, always have and always will, they have the coin, and its not like building a database an API and some marketing/advertising is hard. A fair war between ISs and agencies is like a FB flame war between 11 year old princesses over who is more popular, momentarily entertaining until the next eye blink.
Why would your claim of self evidency forestall anything, because you deem it so, because leadership always thinks their claim are self authenticating, The only inevitability is you nor anyone else knows whats going to happen or what the final outcome will be.
-
Downunder81
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:24 am
Re: Signing with ISS
I must admit I am confused. I am looking to make my first overseas move (from Australia) and considered a few options before signing up with both Search and Schrole (and by extension, ISS if I'm understanding correctly) as between the two they seemed to have some good coverage of schools in SE Asia which is where I am hoping to end up (side note: Schrole has a few Australian International Schools advertised on their website, which I haven't seen much from elsewhere)
@Walter, when you say Search wont stand by and let "their" candidates apply though Schrole, what do you mean? Isn't it up to me how I apply? I thought signing up for both would be beneficial as it would give me more choice.
@Walter, when you say Search wont stand by and let "their" candidates apply though Schrole, what do you mean? Isn't it up to me how I apply? I thought signing up for both would be beneficial as it would give me more choice.
Reply
@Downunder81
It means @Walter doesnt understand the difference between ITs and ISs. If SA banned candidates from joining Schrole, they wouldnt be able to enforce it. SA cant track IT candidate applications through external access portals. All SA can do is track application inquiries that move through their system, thats it.
What @Walter alleviated too is that SA has declared that ISs that are Schole members wont be allowed to register as clients with SA. SA can monitor and enforce this because they can do spot checks and verification as simply as examining the ISs website for a Schrole portal link (which is public, because a secret one wouldnt be very effective for an application management system). If the IS has one they get dropped from SA or their rep application is rejected.
Why because in the past ISs could use various strategies to reduce their debit invoices for recruiting though SA, it was like shrinkage, a certain portion of invoices were written off to maintain good will. Schrole cut into that and exacerbated the issue of external vs. internal recruitment. Int he distant past, ISs needed agencies because recruiting and vetting was an intensive and costly communication process. As the internet and more recently WEB APP tools became more user friendly, it has become increasingly common and easier for ISs to move their recruiting in house. Schrole just made it worse, because for cut rate costs (about $3K/yr) ISs get unlimited posting posting and application hosting. Its not just finding ITs it maintaining their application materials in compliance with various privacy and data protection regulations and with a dedicated system thats reliable and well organized. Every IS has a website now, and putting a Schrole application link is a typically more cost effective than SA. For SA, ISs pay $1500-$2500 per placement and must either attend a recruiting event (fair) or pay an additional $500/yr fee. Schrole doesnt have recruiting events, but for a certain tier and utility of ISs, a fair was just an expensive trip to stand next to a table for two hours watching candidates walk by and for another tier and quality of ISs it was putting on your work face for a recruiter to sit at a table and talk to 200 candidates for one or two vacancies.
No its not up to you, no more than its up to the cow what happens to them at the county fair, whether they get turned into steak and hamburgers or milked as dairy cows. The cows preference means nothing, and you like the cow are a commodity. Your fees to SA or ISS or Schrole are little more than gatekeepers to minimize wasted resources.
It means @Walter doesnt understand the difference between ITs and ISs. If SA banned candidates from joining Schrole, they wouldnt be able to enforce it. SA cant track IT candidate applications through external access portals. All SA can do is track application inquiries that move through their system, thats it.
What @Walter alleviated too is that SA has declared that ISs that are Schole members wont be allowed to register as clients with SA. SA can monitor and enforce this because they can do spot checks and verification as simply as examining the ISs website for a Schrole portal link (which is public, because a secret one wouldnt be very effective for an application management system). If the IS has one they get dropped from SA or their rep application is rejected.
Why because in the past ISs could use various strategies to reduce their debit invoices for recruiting though SA, it was like shrinkage, a certain portion of invoices were written off to maintain good will. Schrole cut into that and exacerbated the issue of external vs. internal recruitment. Int he distant past, ISs needed agencies because recruiting and vetting was an intensive and costly communication process. As the internet and more recently WEB APP tools became more user friendly, it has become increasingly common and easier for ISs to move their recruiting in house. Schrole just made it worse, because for cut rate costs (about $3K/yr) ISs get unlimited posting posting and application hosting. Its not just finding ITs it maintaining their application materials in compliance with various privacy and data protection regulations and with a dedicated system thats reliable and well organized. Every IS has a website now, and putting a Schrole application link is a typically more cost effective than SA. For SA, ISs pay $1500-$2500 per placement and must either attend a recruiting event (fair) or pay an additional $500/yr fee. Schrole doesnt have recruiting events, but for a certain tier and utility of ISs, a fair was just an expensive trip to stand next to a table for two hours watching candidates walk by and for another tier and quality of ISs it was putting on your work face for a recruiter to sit at a table and talk to 200 candidates for one or two vacancies.
No its not up to you, no more than its up to the cow what happens to them at the county fair, whether they get turned into steak and hamburgers or milked as dairy cows. The cows preference means nothing, and you like the cow are a commodity. Your fees to SA or ISS or Schrole are little more than gatekeepers to minimize wasted resources.
-
Downunder81
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:24 am
Re: Signing with ISS
Cows? Gee @PsyGuy, you sure know how to make a guy feel special..
Re: Signing with ISS
Hahahahahahaha Literate Dave:
"What @Walter alleviated too..."
Dave, when someone challenges you, don't get so upset. It impairs your understanding and actually makes your writing even worse. I never said this: "SA has declared that ISs that are Schole members wont be allowed to register as clients with SA." I said that they won't be allowed to post their vacancies on the SEARCH website - a rather different thing as I'm sure you'll admit. As for the rest of your claims, I think it best for you to try to digest other points of view and then reflect a little rather than race into a tirade of tosh.
"What @Walter alleviated too..."
Dave, when someone challenges you, don't get so upset. It impairs your understanding and actually makes your writing even worse. I never said this: "SA has declared that ISs that are Schole members wont be allowed to register as clients with SA." I said that they won't be allowed to post their vacancies on the SEARCH website - a rather different thing as I'm sure you'll admit. As for the rest of your claims, I think it best for you to try to digest other points of view and then reflect a little rather than race into a tirade of tosh.
Re: Signing with ISS
So I understand:
If I register with Search I will also have to register with Apli as well...is that at an extra cost?
If I register with ISS I will also have to register with Schrole as well..it that at an extra cost?
If I am registered with Search but a school asks that I register with Schrole, I will have to then register with Schrole as well, even though I am already registered with Search and Apli, and paid the registration costs? Is the opposite true as well with ISS?
Of course I could also apply directly to schools--but isn't that what ISS and Search are designed to do simplify?
Not sure what direction to take as I think about recruitment next year.
If I register with Search I will also have to register with Apli as well...is that at an extra cost?
If I register with ISS I will also have to register with Schrole as well..it that at an extra cost?
If I am registered with Search but a school asks that I register with Schrole, I will have to then register with Schrole as well, even though I am already registered with Search and Apli, and paid the registration costs? Is the opposite true as well with ISS?
Of course I could also apply directly to schools--but isn't that what ISS and Search are designed to do simplify?
Not sure what direction to take as I think about recruitment next year.
Re: Signing with ISS
ISS told me that there will be no difference between ISS and Schrole. It's going to be called ISS-Schrole Advantage. You only need to sign up to that and if you want to pay for a membership it will be US$75 for a year. A lot cheaper that Search.
-
Downunder81
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:24 am
Re: Signing with ISS
@ Walter, Who is Dave?
@ teller I believe from what Search is saying that Apli is more of a system for schools to handle applications that something separate that we need to sign up for, and from what @radar is saying, Schrole and ISS have one fee that covers both, so if you've signed up for one you get the other as part of the deal.
@ teller I believe from what Search is saying that Apli is more of a system for schools to handle applications that something separate that we need to sign up for, and from what @radar is saying, Schrole and ISS have one fee that covers both, so if you've signed up for one you get the other as part of the deal.
Reply
@Downunder81
Special or not its the reality, the IS is the client not the IT, ITs are the commodity.
@Walter
Nothing youve provided to date have I considered a challenge.
No, its a difference without distinction.
I thoroughly weight and evaluate data before responding, if there was anything worthy of consideration that would be worth the "digesting" I would have done so.
@teller
1) No, you dont have to register with SA if you register with Apli.
2) No, you dont have to register with Schrole if you register with ISS.
Understand that they are two different services not "lite" and "premium" versions of the same product. With Schole for example you can register and complete a profile at no cost, you can also apply to ISs vacancies for no cost as long as you access the application from the ISs web portal to get to Schrole. There is an entirely optional premium option (that has an additional fee) that allows you to search for and apply for vacancies directly within Schrole.
3) Essentially yes. If your registered with SA and an IS asks requires you to register and complete the application and register with Schole, thats what you have to do. yes the opposite would be true as well. ISs can require anything they want,
4) You couldnt really apply "directly" to ISs that are Schrole members, Schole 'IS' the direct application route. When you go to the ISs website and locate the jobs/employment section instead of an email address to send an application "directly" instead you find a link to Schrole where you can register and/or submit an application to the IS.
No they arent designed to simply the process for you at all, they are designed to serve the IS.
5) Schrole is free right now as it is, theres a convenience option ($75) but its just that a convenience. Both Apli and Schrole are application management systems. ISS-Schrole Advantage will simply be ISS with the premium Schrole fee incorporated. One the databases merge from the app POV its going to be like gmail, a document with text fields that have different "tags" that will determine who they are presented, how they will appear, and who can see them. The different user interfaces will interpret those tags to determine what is displayed and how and to whom, but its still all one database.
@radar
No its not a lot cheaper, "ISS-Schrole Advantage" will be $75 for 1 year, SAs fee is $225 for 3 years. Multiply the ISS-Schrole Advantage $75 fee by 3 years and its $225, the same as SA.
Special or not its the reality, the IS is the client not the IT, ITs are the commodity.
@Walter
Nothing youve provided to date have I considered a challenge.
No, its a difference without distinction.
I thoroughly weight and evaluate data before responding, if there was anything worthy of consideration that would be worth the "digesting" I would have done so.
@teller
1) No, you dont have to register with SA if you register with Apli.
2) No, you dont have to register with Schrole if you register with ISS.
Understand that they are two different services not "lite" and "premium" versions of the same product. With Schole for example you can register and complete a profile at no cost, you can also apply to ISs vacancies for no cost as long as you access the application from the ISs web portal to get to Schrole. There is an entirely optional premium option (that has an additional fee) that allows you to search for and apply for vacancies directly within Schrole.
3) Essentially yes. If your registered with SA and an IS asks requires you to register and complete the application and register with Schole, thats what you have to do. yes the opposite would be true as well. ISs can require anything they want,
4) You couldnt really apply "directly" to ISs that are Schrole members, Schole 'IS' the direct application route. When you go to the ISs website and locate the jobs/employment section instead of an email address to send an application "directly" instead you find a link to Schrole where you can register and/or submit an application to the IS.
No they arent designed to simply the process for you at all, they are designed to serve the IS.
5) Schrole is free right now as it is, theres a convenience option ($75) but its just that a convenience. Both Apli and Schrole are application management systems. ISS-Schrole Advantage will simply be ISS with the premium Schrole fee incorporated. One the databases merge from the app POV its going to be like gmail, a document with text fields that have different "tags" that will determine who they are presented, how they will appear, and who can see them. The different user interfaces will interpret those tags to determine what is displayed and how and to whom, but its still all one database.
@radar
No its not a lot cheaper, "ISS-Schrole Advantage" will be $75 for 1 year, SAs fee is $225 for 3 years. Multiply the ISS-Schrole Advantage $75 fee by 3 years and its $225, the same as SA.
Re: Signing with ISS
@PsyGuy- yes, but if I get a job in one year, then paying for three doesn't help me. I'd expect to be in a job for more than a couple of years. Simple math really.
Reply
@radar
"If" being the crucial term, reality and expectations arent always congruent.
Why pay for one then at all, you can register with and apply for Schrole vacancies through the ISs application portal for zero, which is less than $75/yr, since you understand the maths.
"If" being the crucial term, reality and expectations arent always congruent.
Why pay for one then at all, you can register with and apply for Schrole vacancies through the ISs application portal for zero, which is less than $75/yr, since you understand the maths.
Re: Signing with ISS
"What may be significant is the impact on the recruiting landscape and how messy the battle between ISS/Schrole and SEARCH/APli gets. Already, SEARCH have made it clear that schools using Schrole will not be able to post their jobs on the SEARCH website."
Thanks for this, Walter. What happens with a school that asks for a Schrole app in terms of their attendance at a Search fair? Will schools using Schrole be barred from attending a Search fair? Might there be a case where a candidate that has signed up for Search limit potential schools since they chose the wrong system?
Should I make plans to sign up for both Search and ISS in order to hedge my bets?
Sorry, I've haven't thought about recruitment in six years, so I'm a bit puzzled by all of this.
Thanks for this, Walter. What happens with a school that asks for a Schrole app in terms of their attendance at a Search fair? Will schools using Schrole be barred from attending a Search fair? Might there be a case where a candidate that has signed up for Search limit potential schools since they chose the wrong system?
Should I make plans to sign up for both Search and ISS in order to hedge my bets?
Sorry, I've haven't thought about recruitment in six years, so I'm a bit puzzled by all of this.