Advice needed for International teaching

misslondonteacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Advice needed for International teaching

Post by misslondonteacher »

Hello,

I have just joined and was hoping to gain some insight on teaching abroad and potential locations.

I have been teaching for 4 years and am currently Year 6 lead and Gifted and Talented coordinator at a challenging state school in London. I have a BA honours degree, a PGCE and QTS. I am considering moving abroad for at least two years to teach at an international school.

Which countries could I look into which could offer me a good quality of life (including eating out as a vegetarian, sports/fitness, culture, weekend trips etc) and the potential to save at least £1200 a month? I hold a Hong Kong ID card and this is my preferred location to live and work, however I know how high rent is here and that competition is fierce. I am also very interested in Thailand and Singapore (understand the situation here is similar to HK).

I currently work around 50 hours a week and was hoping to find a school in which hours would be equal or less, although I am aware that International schools have high expectations and demands.

Are my ideals too unrealistic or are there options for me?

Many thanks in advance,

misslondonteacher
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by helloiswill »

Miss London,

If your requirements are: to save $1500 USD, good quality of life (I'm assuming this means ample western amenities), and a reasonable workload.

It's hard to say how much you can save without knowing what your lifestyle is like. Since, you included it in your requirements, I'm going to assume your least capable at being thrifty when you need to be. I can also only comment on cities I have researched/been made offers by, or have friends who work there.

China - one of the biggest opportunities to save but unless your in one of the big 3/4 cities you might not have the QOL you would like. If pollution is a deal-breaker its likely only one of the "big 4" would be acceptable. Upper tier schools in these cities might be worth checking out.

Beijing
Shanghai
Guangzhou
Shenzhen (substantially less polluted)

Taiwan - only schools in Taipei and one in Kaohsiung would fit your $$$ requirement. Workload might be too much at the elite school in Taipei but this depends on what you can handle.

South Korea - High pay in upper tier schools that would meet your expectation, rent included in packages. Ample western dining options but not as many as Taipei or major Chinese cities. Great Korean food if you're into that sort of thing... (I am)

Hong Kong/Singapore - you mentioned these locations in your original message so I won't spend much time on them. You're right rent is high, but most upper tier schools would provide you with accommodation or give you a substantial allowance. Still worth looking at.

Japan - similar to HK/SGP high rent/COL but equally high pay in the upper tier schools.

Thailand - Some nice schools and that you could bank substantial coin at. You would have to do more research to see if you would be happy with the western amenities. There are sports centers, western dinning options but with less prevalence than countries higher on this list. I have a feeling that this would still be suitable for you but maybe someone else can give more info. IMO Thailand more than makes up for this with its opportunities to travel and enjoy local culture.

Indonesia/Vietnam/Cambodia/Philippines/elsewhere in SEA - a few interesting schools but these locations would likely not meet your QOL expectations. Side note - from my experience traveling in these countries gyms/fitness centers can be hard to come by and quite expensive. Vietnam may be the exception but you will have to look into that yourself and decide if QOL fits your bill.

Mongolia/Kazakstan/Central Asia - Nope, QOL

South Asia - ''


As I said, I'm only commenting on places I have direct experience with, which is Asia. Good luck and us know if you have any specific questions on countries. This forum does not allow discussion on specific schools packages or details, thats why I have limited my response to locations. With a quick search, you can probably ID the top tier schools in each city. Alternatively, the site has a paid section with reviews.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Your going to have to make some compromises or be very lucky.

You can do all those things youve listed in your lifestyle, but do all that and save £1200 a month is going to require a first probably elite tier IS in the locations you have listed. HK and SG are part of the group of "little tigers". An upper tier IS in those regions would provide you an OSH package, that would include a housing benefit. Its likely however that an IS in HK would consider you local and only provide you an LH package, which wouldnt include housing and would thus be very difficult to save the amount of coin you want to. In SG any IS that didnt include a housing benefit would make it very difficult to save anything, as a small 1LDK flat starts at £2000
Competition is high to get into HK, but once there its relatively easy to move around between ISs, SA has a fair in HK just for that purpose.
In LOS (Thailand), the picture is a little better, housing is more reasonable, and so is eating out and social activities, with options both at the low and high end. A tier 2 IS would meet your saving and lifestyle requirements.

Of course the issue of work life balance is going to be a problem. All of these upper tier (1st and elite tier) ISs though are going to own you. Your first year is probably going to be about 50/hrs a week or more, with a slight drop in your second year. It really depends what you teach. The very broad and general hours of an IT are 8-4ish. Classes are 8-3ish, with an ASP afterwards of about an hour. Meetings add an hour. You probably would get done around 5ish. If you teach primary/elementary as an HRT. Youre going to be in class all day with one prep period and lunch. If you teach lower secondary (very few ISs offer G&T, because then every parent would insist their child was in it) you would have more prep periods throughout the week, reducing your instructional hours, but you likely would have more courses to prep for, which could require more outside attention.
Not all ISs have high expectations and demands, they say they do (I dont know of one that says they dont), but lower tier ISs generally are happy if you show up and students look engaged, but of course they offer less coin, which is going to make your savings and lifestyle requirements harder.

The other problem is that the typical bar to entry in IE is 2 years post credential teaching, youve been teaching for 4 years which isnt highly marketable for top tier ISs (you can look at the PASS below). Being a lead DT and coordinator helps, but none of the ISs at that tier are going to be getting overly excited about your resume. Elite tier ISs can get a 1000 applicants for a single vacancy in highly desirable ISs.

The last of the problems is that I would not tell any upper tier IS that was interested in you that you are only interested in two years. That essentially makes you a tourist teacher, and an upper tier IS isnt going to see much of an ROI on you for only a 2 year commitment.

You are essentially an IT at the point in their career as other ITs entering IE are. You very likely are going to have to make some compromises in your wish list. You can probably get 2 but not all four of what you want:
1) Savings
2) Lifestyle
3) Location
4) Workload
Either that or you need to get very lucky and an upper tier IS is interested in you, it does happen, but even then you are going to have to make compromises, you can probably get three on your wish list (most likely being workload).
What I likely see happening is that like most IT candidates you are going to have to enter IE at a third tier IS, well below your expectations and work your way up and through the tiers, it will take about 6 years. If your looking at just a two year "working holiday" now at this point you are likely going to have to compromise between savings and lifestyle. You could get to SG but its not going to be SAS, or TTS. In HK your very likely to be considered a LH at anything thats not a first/elite tier IS, and your not going to likely walk into one of those
either.
Of your options LOS is probably the best as a floater (top third tier) IS would meet the lower boundary of your requirements, assuming you were disciplined enough (BKK can be a very inexpensive or expensive city) and the OSH package had a decent housing allowance.

Other Possible Options:

1) China - I know its not on your list and its not on many ITs list but its where a lot of ITs end up early in their career, and you could easily get into a third tier BS at the primary level, and some TLR would be reasonable.

2) Vietnam - Has a reputation for having some of the wort ISs in the world. As with China you could easily get into a third tier IS with some TLR. Leadership role wouldnt be unreasonable either. It also has the benefit of much better air quality than places like Beijing.

3) South Korea - Another little tiger, Seoul is a lot like Singapore and HK, but less expensive. The problem is it doesnt have much of a middle tier. A handful of 1st tier ISs and a lot of third tier ISs.

4) Taiwan - Has a small IE presence. There is one 1st tier IS in Taipei that offers a BS program. The rest of the tiers are comparably small.

5) Malaysia - An option, except that Malaysian ISs tend not to know what "work/life balance" means, and its prevalent at all tiers.

6) Laos/Cambodia - Much fewer options in these regions, it would also be difficult to meet your salary and thus savings potential.

7) Myanmar - Lots of growth here, unfortunately even the first tier ISs have significant issues, but you could get in here, but every HOS would roll their eyes at your salary expectations to meet your lifestyle and savings requirements.

In the EU you would have the benefit of an EU passport (at least for now), and there are a number of ISs in the third tier that would be interested in you, the problem is your not going to meet your lifestyle and saving requirements at many of them. Many of them wouldnt offer housing and with taxes, its mostly the same scenario you are in now.

PASS (PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System):
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)

IT CLASSES:
1) INTERN ITs have a score around 0
2) ENTRY ITs have a score around 2
3) CAREER ITs have a score around 4
4) PROFESSIONAL ITs have a score around 6
5) MASTER ITs have a score around 8
misslondonteacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by misslondonteacher »

Thank you both for taking so much time to send me responses.

Your insights are very much appreciated as I need to know whether I am being completely unrealistic or not. I am sensing that I am!

Would I be considered a local hire in HK because of my ID card? Regarding quality of life, I am more than happy to eat local food and do not spend very much on shopping etc so am open to locations which are less 'Westernised'. Have considered Shanghai but was slightly put off by the sheer number of IS there and thus the complications of finding a 'good' school.

I am reasonably good at saving but that's here in London where I have learned ways to avoid splurging and have found good alternatives.

Thailand is definitely somewhere I would consider; I'm now going to research IS there and see where I can find that might take me on. Would it be unrealistic to research schools on the islands with my level of experience?

Re workload- I'm not scared of working hard and worked around 65 hours a week in my first year of teaching. I would like to experience this career in a new country and explore a new culture- haven't ruled out working longer term abroad either.

Thanks again for your help!
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by helloiswill »

Miss London,

If you're willing to eat local I think Thailand would be a great place to look. Don't be intimidated by the number of schools in Shanghai, that just means you have more to choose from. There are a handful of IS's in the city that would meet your savings needs. Last fall, I went into the application process with similar requirements as you but with less experience. Around December I found a school in one of the "Big 4" cities in China that would fit what you are looking for and had been given offers from several others. I think you are being optimistic but not unrealistic. There are ways into IT that don't start at tier 3 schools in middle-of-nowhere China. It all depends on how well you sell yourself and prepare your resume, starting now.
misslondonteacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by misslondonteacher »

When I've been to Thailand before, I found quite a few vegetarian places to eat which was good.

Are the IS on the Thai islands realistic options for me?

Re resume, are there any specific skills/experience that schools recruiters value greater than others for primary? What should I place emphasis on?
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by helloiswill »

I don't know of any IS's on Thai islands that would suit your salary requirements. To be honest, I don't know of many schools on the Thai islands at all. Maybe someone else with more specific knowledge of Thai schools could comment. I identified a half dozen schools that seemed suitable to me and they were all in the Bangkok area, save one nearby Pattaya. If you would like, I could share my CV with you. Like you, I was applying for primary schools jobs. Just shoot me a PM with you email. Do not post your email on this forum though.
misslondonteacher
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by misslondonteacher »

That would be great, thank you.

I can't seem to message you though, could you start the conversation first please or explain how I do it?

Many thanks!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@misslondonteacher

You are going to likely be considered an LH (Local Hire) at an IS in HK, you might be able to get a OW flight in, but other than that they probably arent going to give you a housing allowance, and thats the real financial drain in HK.

I wouldnt be put off at all by number of ISs in Shanghai, it just creates favorable competition for ITs (China overall is considered a hardship) while also having a range of ISs across tiers. There isnt anything complicated there are a few 1st tier ISs, a handful of second tier and the rest third tier.

There is certainly an economic curve for ITs. Living costs more in the beginning because you dont know much and you dont know the language. Even then your always going to be a foreigner and will likely always be charged foreigner prices at some establishments no matter how long you are there.

There arent really any ISs on the islands, why would there be? What you are going to find is a local DS that at most is looking for an ET. If you want to look though:

1) Open Google Maps and start scrolling and zooming over the islands you are looking for a DS.

2) Once you find a DS Google search for "English School" in that area. This means there is enough of a demand on the island for someone to have set up shop.

3) Write to the DS if you can, even using Google Translate you might not find an email that goes to someone who understands it.

4) If nothing happens than try writing to the ES, after exploring their website. If they seem really small there might not be enough business for more than a small outfit. If they appear relatively robust than email them. They may be able to give you some local advise.

PYP experience, thats probably the biggest. Aside from that a focus on a particular specialty such as maths or technology, as opposed to being a generalist. Your leadership is helpful, but you are going to have to apply some psychology based on the IS and their leadership, as leadership might consider you a threat. Be weary of the Reisgio Effect (Google it, will lead you back to the forum). Its more important to convey adaptability and flexibility, there are primary BS ISs that dont do SATs and only appear to be BSs.

PMs do not function on this forum. if you which to establish private communication with another member:
1) After logging in, click on "User Control Panel"
2) Click on the "Profile" tab
3) Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will find several free text fields. I recommend the "Interests" field.
4) Type your email address, or other contact information in the box.
5) Click "Submit"

You can now direct someone to your profile to contact you. You can either keep this information, or edit and remove it when you wish. Do not include contact information in a forum post.
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by helloiswill »

my mistake, I thought there used to be a dm function
seansmith
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:01 pm

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by seansmith »

FYI on Singapore housing: rents have been falling for a year now. Typical 2 bedroom condo flats in many areas of Singapore are going for £1,300 - £1,600 per month. When rental agreements come up for renewal, various friends and colleagues have negotiated rents down about £150 - 200. They could fall further.
idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by idonteven »

PG,

"There arent really any ISs on the islands, why would there be?"

Is this true? I don't want to break the site's rules about discussing specific schools, but I was just looking at a British school located in Phuket that seems to pay pretty well for the region if the reviews are legitimate.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@idonteven

I/we were not referring to Phuket when discussing "the islands". The Islands in respect to IE in LOS are typically in reference to the little spits of sand that are little more than some tourism and locals, the "Ko" Islands such as Ko Kut, etc.
idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Advice needed for International teaching

Post by idonteven »

Not to get too far afield, but it seems odd that there would be a particular distinction for “the islands” that is only used within the context of IE if there’s not even any ISs on those islands.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@idonteven

LOS is one of those regions in IE that has some subtleties in nomenclature and lexicon. Theres a very predominate expat pop in IE/EE and among that pop, "the Islands" has a specific meaning, but its more a LOS thing and less an exclusive IE thing.
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