PsyGuy wrote:
> @Reu
>
> Educator credentials are not a vast investment in time or coin. A one year
> PGCE or ACP or PB program will get you a credential, and induction is just
> another year.
When, pray tell, did you do your education qualification? Because I can tell you that mine (taken at a red-brick university in the UK last decade), was hard work. And Induction may be "just another year", but it can be immensely difficult to get a job straight-out of a PGCE in order to get your Induction, when there's so many other teachers who already have it. No indeed, it is an investment in time, coin, confidence, and emotional stability.
> Complete an application thats a day,
> and take an exam (such as PRAXIS) thats another day and a number of US
> states will give you a professional educator credential.
Sure, in the US. But British Curriculum international schools require a PGCE, good Bachelors in the subject you're teaching, and minimum 2 years experience. Excepting new teachers who are in PGCE placements, every international teacher in a British Curriculum school should (emphasis "should") have been committed to 4 years minimum teaching-related, and another 3 or 4 years of Undergraduate degree. That ain't will-nilly. And that only puts you on the lowest rung of pay, too.
> Younger ITs are more drama prone. They are the generation of ITs that take
> pictures of their food and then post it to FB and blast it out on there
> twitter and snap chat, as if no ones seen what food looks like.
> Older ITs tend to NOT constantly broadcast every single aspect of their
> lives to everyone around them.
God, what an awful generalised view that is. I sincerely hope you're not teaching in any school currently, because such a negative opinion does nothing for colleague's confidence, or the profession as a whole. I know younger teachers who are so incredibly invested in work that they barely get time to relax.
No doubt, schools are a bit of both our viewpoints, since we've experienced vastly different things. But in that case, perhaps you (and I!) ought to be less "MY view is the correct one", yes? :)
> Your not really seeing the world your just exchanging one location for
> another, youre not an explorer or adventure, or journalist. Youre moving
> what you call home from one location to another. Most ITs really dont get
> to travel except during long holiday breaks, in which case IE is no
> different than DE.
Generalised again. Depending upon location, long-weekends give ample opportunity to visit historic sites within the country, and city-breaks nearby. And that's just long-weekends due to national or religious holiday. Someone in China could easily take a half-term break in Indonesia, Cambodia, Malaysia, for example.
---
boss14 wrote:
>
> But plenty of office job environments are toxic as well. That's why I was curious to
> know how the negativity in teaching at ISs *compares* to typical office jobs
It's too broad to really give a simple answer to. I've worked retail alongside awful people, worked office alongside people who just keep their heads down and do the job, and worked in schools that are both those things and toxic besides, as well as working alongside fantastic teachers who are genuinely happy to be in school. I do think that school environments are far more personalised places. By that, I mean that they rely far more on whether you "click" with colleagues and senior staff than an office job. Which is unfortunate, but is the same whether teaching in my home country, or internationally.
Negativity in the workplace
Reply
@Reu
Mine was taken at Uni as well. Your classification of your PGCE as hard work, is a generalization. Not everyone has to work hard. A decade ago EPP/ITT programs were different than now. Its not even an investment in coin, you can take your bursary and then leave, never paying it back.
Induction and full QTS isnt even a requirement there are lots of NQTs in IE, sure they arent at elite tier BSOs but its not a requirement you work at an elite tier BSO.
No they dont, they require QTS. There are a multitude of ways of getting QTS including SD and AO. In some of those instances getting a PGCE is also part of the ITT/EPP program.
You get to count your induction year as a teaching year for experience, so you could meet the bar to entry into IE after 2 years, though there are ISs (and BSs) that will accept less.
Its assumed you already have a first degree. 4 years is just grossly unrealistic as a requirement.
Still not an untrue generalization and I do teach.
Those young ITs dont know what they are doing thats why they have such poor work/life balance.
Generalizations can have high utility, and most of them do. Its easy to just dismiss everything as a generalization.
You basically have 3 long term breaks to travel, but youd have those in DE as well. Sure weekends can give you the opportunity to visit local sites, assuming you have the whole weekend free, have it planed in advance, and some other logistical limitations. You spend the whole weekend and usually get one solid day to be a tourist. You usually exhaust the typical tourist stuff in a month in a region within a month.
Mine was taken at Uni as well. Your classification of your PGCE as hard work, is a generalization. Not everyone has to work hard. A decade ago EPP/ITT programs were different than now. Its not even an investment in coin, you can take your bursary and then leave, never paying it back.
Induction and full QTS isnt even a requirement there are lots of NQTs in IE, sure they arent at elite tier BSOs but its not a requirement you work at an elite tier BSO.
No they dont, they require QTS. There are a multitude of ways of getting QTS including SD and AO. In some of those instances getting a PGCE is also part of the ITT/EPP program.
You get to count your induction year as a teaching year for experience, so you could meet the bar to entry into IE after 2 years, though there are ISs (and BSs) that will accept less.
Its assumed you already have a first degree. 4 years is just grossly unrealistic as a requirement.
Still not an untrue generalization and I do teach.
Those young ITs dont know what they are doing thats why they have such poor work/life balance.
Generalizations can have high utility, and most of them do. Its easy to just dismiss everything as a generalization.
You basically have 3 long term breaks to travel, but youd have those in DE as well. Sure weekends can give you the opportunity to visit local sites, assuming you have the whole weekend free, have it planed in advance, and some other logistical limitations. You spend the whole weekend and usually get one solid day to be a tourist. You usually exhaust the typical tourist stuff in a month in a region within a month.
Re: Negativity in the workplace
@boss14
As you can see from Psyguy's responses, there can be a lack of trust and confidence in colleagues that you wouldn't necessarily find in an office job. I find it hard to believe that his personal view of younger teachers wouldn't affect how he treats them in the workplace. To have to work with or for someone like that - someone who says "young ITs dont know what they are doing" - when you're far and away better than some of the older teachers is demoralising (trust me, I know from what I speak).
I have no doubt some office managers are like that, but teaching is something that has an element of emotional investment, and where office or retail is a "leave your work at work" kind-of job, it's far harder to do that with teaching. The highs are higher, but the lows can leave you distraught and eating nothing but KFC and Ben & Jerrys over a weekend, and the working environment plays a large part in that.
As you can see from Psyguy's responses, there can be a lack of trust and confidence in colleagues that you wouldn't necessarily find in an office job. I find it hard to believe that his personal view of younger teachers wouldn't affect how he treats them in the workplace. To have to work with or for someone like that - someone who says "young ITs dont know what they are doing" - when you're far and away better than some of the older teachers is demoralising (trust me, I know from what I speak).
I have no doubt some office managers are like that, but teaching is something that has an element of emotional investment, and where office or retail is a "leave your work at work" kind-of job, it's far harder to do that with teaching. The highs are higher, but the lows can leave you distraught and eating nothing but KFC and Ben & Jerrys over a weekend, and the working environment plays a large part in that.
Reply
@Reu
You depend and need less confidence and trust in an office, you just assume everyone is out for themselves and plan according. Teaching lulls you into a false sense of community, cooperation and collaboration, when in reality its your classroom and your show.
I never claimed that younger ITs were incompetent or didnt know what they were doing, please identify that statement. What younger ITs do that i claimed was bring more drama, which is true.
Teaching is also a leave your work at work job, because its a job.
I dont let my IS get to me to the point of eating KFC and B&J all weekend.
You depend and need less confidence and trust in an office, you just assume everyone is out for themselves and plan according. Teaching lulls you into a false sense of community, cooperation and collaboration, when in reality its your classroom and your show.
I never claimed that younger ITs were incompetent or didnt know what they were doing, please identify that statement. What younger ITs do that i claimed was bring more drama, which is true.
Teaching is also a leave your work at work job, because its a job.
I dont let my IS get to me to the point of eating KFC and B&J all weekend.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Reu
>
>
> I never claimed that younger ITs were incompetent or didnt know what they
> were doing, please identify that statement.
"Those young ITs dont know what they are doing thats why they have such poor work/life balance."
Of course, you could claim you meant that they're inexperienced, naive, or innocent, but none of those are the words you used, and all of them (including the words you did use) hold some sort of negative connotation.
> What younger ITs do that i claimed was bring more drama, which is true.
No - In. Your. Experience. It's true. It is not a universal truth, and to pretend it is is disrespectful in the extreme.
> Teaching is also a leave your work at work job, because its a job.
Perhaps for you it is, but for others the negatives can't just be left at the door.
> I dont let my IS get to me to the point of eating KFC and B&J all weekend.
I of course did not say it was like that for everyone, I said "it's far harder to do that with teaching," and "the lows CAN leave you distraught". Note that I did not say WILL.
> @Reu
>
>
> I never claimed that younger ITs were incompetent or didnt know what they
> were doing, please identify that statement.
"Those young ITs dont know what they are doing thats why they have such poor work/life balance."
Of course, you could claim you meant that they're inexperienced, naive, or innocent, but none of those are the words you used, and all of them (including the words you did use) hold some sort of negative connotation.
> What younger ITs do that i claimed was bring more drama, which is true.
No - In. Your. Experience. It's true. It is not a universal truth, and to pretend it is is disrespectful in the extreme.
> Teaching is also a leave your work at work job, because its a job.
Perhaps for you it is, but for others the negatives can't just be left at the door.
> I dont let my IS get to me to the point of eating KFC and B&J all weekend.
I of course did not say it was like that for everyone, I said "it's far harder to do that with teaching," and "the lows CAN leave you distraught". Note that I did not say WILL.
Reply
@Reu
I indicated that young ITs were inexperienced, not incompetent. Inexperienced isnt a negative quality, its not a quality at all, simply a reflection of time attending to a type of task.
There are very few universal truths, nor did i claim that my statement was one. Of course its in my experience and knowledge, Im the one that stated it, had it been attributed to someone else, it would have been accompanied by a citation. I assume likewise that your claims and statements represent only your opinions, and that you arent representing your statement and claims on behalf of some other person or organization.
Its just as likely the negatives can be left behind at the ISs door as well.
I didnt claim you did, mearly that the stresses you experience are not universal, and its a gross generalization to claim otherwise.
I indicated that young ITs were inexperienced, not incompetent. Inexperienced isnt a negative quality, its not a quality at all, simply a reflection of time attending to a type of task.
There are very few universal truths, nor did i claim that my statement was one. Of course its in my experience and knowledge, Im the one that stated it, had it been attributed to someone else, it would have been accompanied by a citation. I assume likewise that your claims and statements represent only your opinions, and that you arent representing your statement and claims on behalf of some other person or organization.
Its just as likely the negatives can be left behind at the ISs door as well.
I didnt claim you did, mearly that the stresses you experience are not universal, and its a gross generalization to claim otherwise.
Re: Negativity in the workplace
@Psyguy
As a teacher, and an IT...why would you perpetuate the negativity surrounding the career? As if teacher's don't already get enough negative attention.
Just because you potentially went into education because you didn't know what else to do doesn't mean that other people didn't want to do it or do it out of desperation. It's the whole "if you can't do then teach." As if teaching is an incredibly easy fallback or something.
Every one of your responses on this post reeks of stereotype.
It takes quite a bit of strength and motivation to go into IT in my experience. Teacher certifications, years of experience, not to mention leaving everything/everyone in your country behind. It's not like it's extremely easy.
As far as OP. Negativity in the workplace is going to happen anywhere you go. You just need to find a balance. Watch what you say to some people because their whole goal is to bring others down with them~ misery loves company. Maybe ask them what they think the solution is? Maybe suggest and help lead others?
Maybe some teachers can come together as a group and offer suggestions to admin? Just some suggestions. I know it is difficult. It's also easy to get caught up in the negativity.
As a teacher, and an IT...why would you perpetuate the negativity surrounding the career? As if teacher's don't already get enough negative attention.
Just because you potentially went into education because you didn't know what else to do doesn't mean that other people didn't want to do it or do it out of desperation. It's the whole "if you can't do then teach." As if teaching is an incredibly easy fallback or something.
Every one of your responses on this post reeks of stereotype.
It takes quite a bit of strength and motivation to go into IT in my experience. Teacher certifications, years of experience, not to mention leaving everything/everyone in your country behind. It's not like it's extremely easy.
As far as OP. Negativity in the workplace is going to happen anywhere you go. You just need to find a balance. Watch what you say to some people because their whole goal is to bring others down with them~ misery loves company. Maybe ask them what they think the solution is? Maybe suggest and help lead others?
Maybe some teachers can come together as a group and offer suggestions to admin? Just some suggestions. I know it is difficult. It's also easy to get caught up in the negativity.
Reply
@Artsmg
Its reality, IT has its positive aspects which I discuss and also its negative aspects which I also discuss. These things are true. The forum has a unicorn if you want rainbows and pixie dust.
Data, the entry of secondary DTs into education is not the primary case for pursuing the major and degree they did. Education became the means by which they were able to monetize their degree in their field.
How do you think a stereotype becomes a stereotype, by generally being accurate. Education is a lot easier to get into than going back for another degree and studying something from the start and trying to break into that field. If you want to study art, and turn it into a profession that pays your bills you either become a professional artist (who marries someone who can support them), your a very lucky person who becomes a commercial artist or your in education. If youre a literature graduate because you want to be a writer, you either get very, very lucky and become an actual published author, you go into education or youre working at Starbucks.
Getting into education is very easy, 2 days gets you a credential, one day on the application and CRB and a day for the certification exam, thats it 2 days.
Thats your experience, there are lots of ITs that are all too happy and eager to leave everything behind and bid good riddance to "home".
Its reality, IT has its positive aspects which I discuss and also its negative aspects which I also discuss. These things are true. The forum has a unicorn if you want rainbows and pixie dust.
Data, the entry of secondary DTs into education is not the primary case for pursuing the major and degree they did. Education became the means by which they were able to monetize their degree in their field.
How do you think a stereotype becomes a stereotype, by generally being accurate. Education is a lot easier to get into than going back for another degree and studying something from the start and trying to break into that field. If you want to study art, and turn it into a profession that pays your bills you either become a professional artist (who marries someone who can support them), your a very lucky person who becomes a commercial artist or your in education. If youre a literature graduate because you want to be a writer, you either get very, very lucky and become an actual published author, you go into education or youre working at Starbucks.
Getting into education is very easy, 2 days gets you a credential, one day on the application and CRB and a day for the certification exam, thats it 2 days.
Thats your experience, there are lots of ITs that are all too happy and eager to leave everything behind and bid good riddance to "home".
Re: Negativity in the workplace
@psyguy it's of course not all black and white. No one is talking about unicorns. Of course there is a negative side to anything.
I'm going into international teaching for the first time so I can't say how it is from an IT perspective yet. Maybe I'm not jaded enough yet. But I've been teaching 5 years and what you are saying is what the negative press in the states says about teachers. What you have said in your previous posts is so anti-teacher that it's actually alarming. Especially coming from a teacher. Obviously you must be in it for a different reason than other people.
Saying that they either teach or marry someone to support them is pretty ignorant. There's other ways to make money. Being in the art field myself, obviously being a fine artist alone and not a teacher can be a struggle. But art is a broad term. What you are saying has some relevance. But that's not why all teachers, teach.
I don't know how you got into education. But for me it took 5 years of schooling, a semester of student teaching, many hours of observations and field work, multiple tests, etc. Definitely not 2 hours. Are we talking about certified teachers or English teachers?
Oh trust me, I'm very excited to leave my home too. Doesn't mean it's easy, there's a lot of paperwork, money, time, and stress that goes into uprooting your life. Pretty sure that's a fact with any move, anywhere.
I'm going into international teaching for the first time so I can't say how it is from an IT perspective yet. Maybe I'm not jaded enough yet. But I've been teaching 5 years and what you are saying is what the negative press in the states says about teachers. What you have said in your previous posts is so anti-teacher that it's actually alarming. Especially coming from a teacher. Obviously you must be in it for a different reason than other people.
Saying that they either teach or marry someone to support them is pretty ignorant. There's other ways to make money. Being in the art field myself, obviously being a fine artist alone and not a teacher can be a struggle. But art is a broad term. What you are saying has some relevance. But that's not why all teachers, teach.
I don't know how you got into education. But for me it took 5 years of schooling, a semester of student teaching, many hours of observations and field work, multiple tests, etc. Definitely not 2 hours. Are we talking about certified teachers or English teachers?
Oh trust me, I'm very excited to leave my home too. Doesn't mean it's easy, there's a lot of paperwork, money, time, and stress that goes into uprooting your life. Pretty sure that's a fact with any move, anywhere.
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Negativity in the workplace
Don't get drawn in with him as I so often do. PG isn't a teacher; he is a collector of certifications with limited and sketchy experiences. Just focus on your students and on your practice; those will ground you when things get too negative.
Reply
@Artsmg
Im not jaded at all Ive been teaching for over a decade, but only data matters. Those negative aspects reported in the media are reported by the media because thats what the data supports. Im not anti-IT, Ive discussed the positives a number of times and will continue to do so, but the emphasis the positive and demphasize the negative is the recruiter leadership pitch. Focus on the good and downplay the bad. Thats what this forum is about keeping ITs and potential ITs informed. Are there broad experiences across a continuum, absolutely, does the good side of the scale mitigate the bad side, no. As I wrote before we have a forum unicorn who typically takes the rainbows and pixie dust position. Advocating silence or ignoring the negative is just naive.
I have no doubt when you get to your new IS for the first trip OS it will all seem great and exotic, and eventually the enchantment period wears off, but it will still be good, until the point where it goes bad, that may not happen for you ever or for a very long time, but if it happens its going to be really bad. Thats why this site exists if it was all good and great this site wouldnt serve a purpose.
I got into IT for the travel, and the time off. I really did love teaching in the beginning, I bought into the whole nobility of the profession, but I realized (thankfully sooner rather than later) that it was just a job with a minor altruistic boost every now and then. I considered myself successful if I kept my male students out of jail and my female students off the stripper pole. Thats when I went to IT because I realized I was just a baby sitter in DE.
Its actually very well informed. How many Picasso, and Monet are there in modern art? If you arent a Hayao Miyazaki your basically a no one. The professional artists if you arent one of those people are either supported by a spouse or art is there side hustle and they are paying their bills serving or something. The other option is commercial art, which is better if your an illustrator but pretty poor if youre a sculptor or potter. Of course the ideal out is teaching art you get to spend the day working on your own projects while monitoring a room of students who are working.
I am referring to fully credentialed DTs by state regulatory authorities. Utah (UT) will issue a first (bachelor) degree holder (any subject) who successfully passes the appropriate PRAXIS exam and upon submission of a clear CRB and application (plus fee) issues a renewable level 1 teaching credential that authorizes the holder to provide instructional services in regulated (public/maintained) DSs in the the field and grade levels inscribed on the certificate. You can find the appropriate reference here:
http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/APT.aspx
The application and CRB takes a day to fill out the forms, collect the documents and have your fingerprints collected. The single PRAXIS exam is another day (half day of actual siting time), thats 2 days together.
Thats not a fact, "Not Easy" is a characterization attached to and describing you and your experience, for others it actually is easy, thats an opinion regardless of which side of the position you are on?
Im not jaded at all Ive been teaching for over a decade, but only data matters. Those negative aspects reported in the media are reported by the media because thats what the data supports. Im not anti-IT, Ive discussed the positives a number of times and will continue to do so, but the emphasis the positive and demphasize the negative is the recruiter leadership pitch. Focus on the good and downplay the bad. Thats what this forum is about keeping ITs and potential ITs informed. Are there broad experiences across a continuum, absolutely, does the good side of the scale mitigate the bad side, no. As I wrote before we have a forum unicorn who typically takes the rainbows and pixie dust position. Advocating silence or ignoring the negative is just naive.
I have no doubt when you get to your new IS for the first trip OS it will all seem great and exotic, and eventually the enchantment period wears off, but it will still be good, until the point where it goes bad, that may not happen for you ever or for a very long time, but if it happens its going to be really bad. Thats why this site exists if it was all good and great this site wouldnt serve a purpose.
I got into IT for the travel, and the time off. I really did love teaching in the beginning, I bought into the whole nobility of the profession, but I realized (thankfully sooner rather than later) that it was just a job with a minor altruistic boost every now and then. I considered myself successful if I kept my male students out of jail and my female students off the stripper pole. Thats when I went to IT because I realized I was just a baby sitter in DE.
Its actually very well informed. How many Picasso, and Monet are there in modern art? If you arent a Hayao Miyazaki your basically a no one. The professional artists if you arent one of those people are either supported by a spouse or art is there side hustle and they are paying their bills serving or something. The other option is commercial art, which is better if your an illustrator but pretty poor if youre a sculptor or potter. Of course the ideal out is teaching art you get to spend the day working on your own projects while monitoring a room of students who are working.
I am referring to fully credentialed DTs by state regulatory authorities. Utah (UT) will issue a first (bachelor) degree holder (any subject) who successfully passes the appropriate PRAXIS exam and upon submission of a clear CRB and application (plus fee) issues a renewable level 1 teaching credential that authorizes the holder to provide instructional services in regulated (public/maintained) DSs in the the field and grade levels inscribed on the certificate. You can find the appropriate reference here:
http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/APT.aspx
The application and CRB takes a day to fill out the forms, collect the documents and have your fingerprints collected. The single PRAXIS exam is another day (half day of actual siting time), thats 2 days together.
Thats not a fact, "Not Easy" is a characterization attached to and describing you and your experience, for others it actually is easy, thats an opinion regardless of which side of the position you are on?
Re: Reply
Reu wrote:
> When, pray tell, did you do your education qualification? Because I can tell you that
> mine (taken at a red-brick university in the UK last decade), was hard work. And
> Induction may be "just another year", but it can be immensely difficult to
> get a job straight-out of a PGCE in order to get your Induction, when there's so many
> other teachers who already have it. No indeed, it is an investment in time, coin,
> confidence, and emotional stability.
Reu - you are assuming that people have done the genuine PGCE + QTS route. There are a lot of PGCEs/iPGCEs - even from reputable universities, that are barely worth the paper they are written on. The Nottingham iPGCE is one fine example. There are some 'certification' routes in the US that are even worse.
> When, pray tell, did you do your education qualification? Because I can tell you that
> mine (taken at a red-brick university in the UK last decade), was hard work. And
> Induction may be "just another year", but it can be immensely difficult to
> get a job straight-out of a PGCE in order to get your Induction, when there's so many
> other teachers who already have it. No indeed, it is an investment in time, coin,
> confidence, and emotional stability.
Reu - you are assuming that people have done the genuine PGCE + QTS route. There are a lot of PGCEs/iPGCEs - even from reputable universities, that are barely worth the paper they are written on. The Nottingham iPGCE is one fine example. There are some 'certification' routes in the US that are even worse.
Re: Negativity in the workplace
@REU
Well if you aren't claiming that new IT's are incompetent, I am.
There seems to be 2 tribes of newbies: The young ones who seem to have as their only skill set being able to suck up to their superiors, and the older ones who couldn't hack "the real world" so they thought they might give teaching a go (since, after all, anyone can teach, right?). This second tribe is even more skilled at ass kissing, due to their years of humiliating themselves in the corporate world, and as bad, know how to screw over their colleagues.
The first tribe can be forgiven due to the fact that they grew up with enough tech toys to turn their attentions spans to something on par with a gecko and their moral compasses even with Gordon Gekko. They know they are inferior to adults so they use their only skill, butt smooching and flattery, learned from many hours watching "Housewives of (fill in the blank)".
The second tribe is simply beneath contempt.
Well if you aren't claiming that new IT's are incompetent, I am.
There seems to be 2 tribes of newbies: The young ones who seem to have as their only skill set being able to suck up to their superiors, and the older ones who couldn't hack "the real world" so they thought they might give teaching a go (since, after all, anyone can teach, right?). This second tribe is even more skilled at ass kissing, due to their years of humiliating themselves in the corporate world, and as bad, know how to screw over their colleagues.
The first tribe can be forgiven due to the fact that they grew up with enough tech toys to turn their attentions spans to something on par with a gecko and their moral compasses even with Gordon Gekko. They know they are inferior to adults so they use their only skill, butt smooching and flattery, learned from many hours watching "Housewives of (fill in the blank)".
The second tribe is simply beneath contempt.
Re: Negativity in the workplace
@ Senator
Which tribe were you in when you started?
OG
Which tribe were you in when you started?
OG
Re: Negativity in the workplace
@Senator Ted, what a priceless contribution on "Negativity in the Workplace":
"There seems to be 2 tribes of newbies: The young ones who seem to have as their only skill set being able to suck up to their superiors, and the older ones who couldn't hack "the real world" so they thought they might give teaching a go (since, after all, anyone can teach, right?). This second tribe is even more skilled at ass kissing, due to their years of humiliating themselves in the corporate world, and as bad, know how to screw over their colleagues."
Is it true that you missed out on a part in "Grumpy Old Men" because you were just too miserable?
"There seems to be 2 tribes of newbies: The young ones who seem to have as their only skill set being able to suck up to their superiors, and the older ones who couldn't hack "the real world" so they thought they might give teaching a go (since, after all, anyone can teach, right?). This second tribe is even more skilled at ass kissing, due to their years of humiliating themselves in the corporate world, and as bad, know how to screw over their colleagues."
Is it true that you missed out on a part in "Grumpy Old Men" because you were just too miserable?