Hi,
I am currently working at an international school in China and looking to gain a recognised teaching qualification (I worked for 2 years as an unqualified teacher in an academy school in the UK). However, I don't wish to return to the UK to study a PGCE. Some people have suggested a PGCEi but it seems a bit expensive considering it doesn't qualify for QTS back in the UK. I have been reading about the Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training. I could do this through my current job and it also allows me to apply for QTLS status which I believe is now considered on par with QTS in the UK. My question is whether this qualification would carry much weight with international schools? Or, would I be better served with another qualification?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it?
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jake290788
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:02 pm
Response
QTLS is equivalent to QTS. Without getting into a technical ana1ysis of the comparisons. For about the same costs QTLS is essentially at the undergraduate level where a PGCE is at the graduate level.
QTLS has in my experience been considered by some an inferior training by recruiters and leadership. However these are just biases in academic preparation. If you have classroom performance success and continue to do so it doesnt matter if you have QTS or QTLS a PGCE or a 5DE. It would be superior to a PGCEi.
The PGCE is the preferred qualification and QTS the preferred credential.
Obtaining QTS by AO is another option for you, though you obtain no academic qualification in the process.
QTLS has in my experience been considered by some an inferior training by recruiters and leadership. However these are just biases in academic preparation. If you have classroom performance success and continue to do so it doesnt matter if you have QTS or QTLS a PGCE or a 5DE. It would be superior to a PGCEi.
The PGCE is the preferred qualification and QTS the preferred credential.
Obtaining QTS by AO is another option for you, though you obtain no academic qualification in the process.
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jake290788
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:02 pm
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
Thanks for your response, PsyGuy. At the moment I am just looking to gain further experience in the international school sector. However, I am just concerned that further down the line not having a teaching qualification on my CV might hold me back when looking for other jobs. I have read about the AO route. It still works out more expensive than taking the level 5 and applying for QTLS. I just don't want to fork out money for something that might not even help my international school career.
Reply
@jake290788
You must have a really inexpensive 5DE program Ive seen AO programs that are about £2300.
Lack of a credential is going to hold you back at certain tiers, mainly anything above third tier and even within third tier your marketability is pretty low.
You must have a really inexpensive 5DE program Ive seen AO programs that are about £2300.
Lack of a credential is going to hold you back at certain tiers, mainly anything above third tier and even within third tier your marketability is pretty low.
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
jake290788 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am currently working at an international school in China and looking to gain a
> recognised teaching qualification. However, I don't wish to return to the UK to study
> a PGCE.
The point is moot. Either you go home and do the PGCE + QTS + NQT year properly, or you stay overseas and you do some kind of workaround qualification. It will never quite measure up, but depending on the school and/or your subject, it might not matter much. Which actual qualification is largely irrelevant. iPGCE / QTLS / Level 5 whatever, or even QTS through something else other than a PGCE or B. Ed route.
> Hi,
>
> I am currently working at an international school in China and looking to gain a
> recognised teaching qualification. However, I don't wish to return to the UK to study
> a PGCE.
The point is moot. Either you go home and do the PGCE + QTS + NQT year properly, or you stay overseas and you do some kind of workaround qualification. It will never quite measure up, but depending on the school and/or your subject, it might not matter much. Which actual qualification is largely irrelevant. iPGCE / QTLS / Level 5 whatever, or even QTS through something else other than a PGCE or B. Ed route.
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
Nottingham PGCEi is about 3300 pounds, no? Doesn't sounds that expensive to me, given you can work while you do it and earn a salary higher than you'd get from student loans+bursary in the UK (unless you're studying maths or science).
Oh yeah, and the Nottingham PGCEi I'd just a bunch of easy academic writing, nothing like the grind of teaching in UK domestic schools. I wish I'd chosen that route every day.
Oh yeah, and the Nottingham PGCEi I'd just a bunch of easy academic writing, nothing like the grind of teaching in UK domestic schools. I wish I'd chosen that route every day.
Reply
@joe30
The fees fluctuate but the average is about £3600 (with most current programs either £3500 or £3660) , it depends on the location cohort you enroll in, but some of the cohort programs are much higher around £7500.
Yes, there is no field work component, assessment is academic writing. However, it does not award QTS directly.
The fees fluctuate but the average is about £3600 (with most current programs either £3500 or £3660) , it depends on the location cohort you enroll in, but some of the cohort programs are much higher around £7500.
Yes, there is no field work component, assessment is academic writing. However, it does not award QTS directly.
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
For sure I'd sooner not have QTS but also not have had to teach in UK schools for the best part of a year! The PGCEi is fine for third tier schools which is the level I'm aiming at anyway.
There'd have been more money (cos of salary while I studied), I could have stayed in Thailand, and wouldn't have had to suffer the grind of measuring up to UK 'teachers standards'. If I could rewind a year I'd do the PGCEi without any hesitation.
Think 3600 GBP is perfectly reasonable in terms of fees. With my UK PGCE I get 11,000 GBP in loans+bursary, and the course fees paid for me. So, if you can earn 14,600 GBP a year then the PGCEi would have been more worthwhile (in terms of money for that year).
QTS isn't hugely relevant to me since I'll probably not be teaching in a first tier school and absolutely will NEVER teach in the UK again. Even if they trebled the post-tax salaries, I wouldn't even consider going back.
There'd have been more money (cos of salary while I studied), I could have stayed in Thailand, and wouldn't have had to suffer the grind of measuring up to UK 'teachers standards'. If I could rewind a year I'd do the PGCEi without any hesitation.
Think 3600 GBP is perfectly reasonable in terms of fees. With my UK PGCE I get 11,000 GBP in loans+bursary, and the course fees paid for me. So, if you can earn 14,600 GBP a year then the PGCEi would have been more worthwhile (in terms of money for that year).
QTS isn't hugely relevant to me since I'll probably not be teaching in a first tier school and absolutely will NEVER teach in the UK again. Even if they trebled the post-tax salaries, I wouldn't even consider going back.
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
joe30 wrote:
> Oh yeah, and the Nottingham PGCEi I'd just a bunch of easy academic writing, nothing like the grind of teaching in UK domestic schools. I wish I'd chosen that route every day.
PsyGuy wrote:
> Yes, there is no field work component, assessment is academic writing. However, it does not award QTS directly.
and employers know that. It's why many good schools either won't hire people with iPGCEs, or will prioritise teachers who have gone the proper route.
> Oh yeah, and the Nottingham PGCEi I'd just a bunch of easy academic writing, nothing like the grind of teaching in UK domestic schools. I wish I'd chosen that route every day.
PsyGuy wrote:
> Yes, there is no field work component, assessment is academic writing. However, it does not award QTS directly.
and employers know that. It's why many good schools either won't hire people with iPGCEs, or will prioritise teachers who have gone the proper route.
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
PsyGuy wrote:
> Many of the ITs with a PGCEi arent looking or focusing on "good" ISs. A PGCEi is a working qualification for a lot of third tier ISs.
Fair enough. Although that can equally be said about many of the other alternative quals listed above.
Out of interest, is it the same with US certification? Are they all considered equal, or are some considered more valid than others?
> Many of the ITs with a PGCEi arent looking or focusing on "good" ISs. A PGCEi is a working qualification for a lot of third tier ISs.
Fair enough. Although that can equally be said about many of the other alternative quals listed above.
Out of interest, is it the same with US certification? Are they all considered equal, or are some considered more valid than others?
Reply
@shadylane
I dont know which credentials you are referring too? A DT who holds QTLS and is a member of the SfE is licensed to provide instructional services in maintained DSs in England including BSOs and further, is exempt from induction. Do I agree with that from a professional standpoint, no. I understand why they did it, so that DSs could directly offer a broader range of courses in 6th form.
Is that a good reason? Maybe.
Whats the result? Well it costs less thats for sure.
Do students suffer, not that I can see.
Could students be served better, theres a lack of data to support that they would, mainly because those courses just wouldnt get offered.
Does it hurt DTs? It increased the labor pool, thus depressing marketability. What would have been the option though, again those students would have either not had the opportunities or they would have been transported to institutions for those courses.
Is there an observable difference in an ITs utility and marketability. Yes, but its based on small sample size. There just arent a lot of ITs with QTLS that are doing so with the intent of perusing IE.
Is there an appreciation or deprecation in IT performance? No, usually by the time a DT, regardless of training foundation enters IE, their experience whether from design or evolution is consistent with accepted practices of meds/peds.
Id much rather have to defend the area and degree of content preparation than that of meds/peds. It just comes down to "can the IT get it done", at that level of determination a lot of roads lead to the same destination. Ive known ITs that were naturals, no formal training at all, who I would rather have in a classroom then some highly educated ITs who cant seem to teach their way out of a book.
The situation in the US is more turbulent. Among the most significant issues are:
1) No common credentialing authority. Each state credentials and licenses educators individually. Nothing like the TCL exists on the national level in the US.
2) No standard or uniform credential. States may offer multiple levels of credentials that all authorize instructional services. Nothing like QTS exists in the US as a whole.
3) Different credentials are mandated/required for leadership. While the UK has the NPQ, this isnt a compulsory requirement, neither is enforcement of the head teacher standards.
4) No mandated central repository for disciplinary actions. A DT may hold multiple credentials and have sanctions on one license without effecting the others.
The gold standard of IE credentialing in the US is California:
1) They have high standards. In addition to a full EPP/ITT program that includes field work, DTs must complete a process similar to induction either provided by am employing DS/IS or the DT must complete it academically through a Uni. It essentially makes the system of credentialing a two year process.
2) WASC accreditation is heavily and almost exclusively influenced to the point of design by CA standards. WASC standards are predominate in IE, and even in regions that are accredited by other regional bodies, they all respect WASC.
3) Due to size CA (and TX) essentially dictate the writing, design and content of textbooks for use in the US. As such CA curriculum is a defacto US curriculum. You just cant escape it, States rarely if ever allocate limited education resources to the writing of a specific textbook. In the cases they do, its almost always a state history or culture text.
4) CC, Aero, and for all practical purposes NGSS standards were all either an adaptation of or heavily influenced (dictated) by CA curriculum and standards.
That standard and influence isnt common in other states, and its difficult to find reciprocity and consensus despite their being agreements among states on mutual recognition (based heavily upon the NASDTEC Interstate Agreement).
In very broad generalities:
1) Traditionally trained DTs who completed their EPP/ITT through academic study and clinical field work at accredited tertiary institutions are generally accepted as equivalent and have the fewest issues of recognition within the US. If you went to X University/College and completed a course of study leading to bachelors degree and either major, minor, or concentration in professional education that resulted in a state issued credential, you can essentially go to any other state or territory and receive some form of credential to teach.
2) Of those traditionally trained the difference among state grades/levels of credential differ by years of previous experience and possibly having obtained an advance degree.
3) Of the largest disagreement and variance in the recognition of educator credentials are those obtained by ACP (Alternative Certification Programs) which can range from a post-back (5th year or 1 year) Uni EPP/ITT program to those that very closely resemble apprenticeships.
4) Of highly controversial nature are the pathways that do not require EPP/ITT programs at all, commonly referred to as "test based" programs.
5) There is an entirely option and voluntary program called the NBPTS (National Board for Professional Teacher Standards) this organization offers credentials to current DTs/ITs taht is almost exclusively a portfolio based demonstrations of meds/peds and content proficiency. A DT with such a credential often is provided an expedited and easier pathway to applying for a state credential trough reciprocity.
I dont know which credentials you are referring too? A DT who holds QTLS and is a member of the SfE is licensed to provide instructional services in maintained DSs in England including BSOs and further, is exempt from induction. Do I agree with that from a professional standpoint, no. I understand why they did it, so that DSs could directly offer a broader range of courses in 6th form.
Is that a good reason? Maybe.
Whats the result? Well it costs less thats for sure.
Do students suffer, not that I can see.
Could students be served better, theres a lack of data to support that they would, mainly because those courses just wouldnt get offered.
Does it hurt DTs? It increased the labor pool, thus depressing marketability. What would have been the option though, again those students would have either not had the opportunities or they would have been transported to institutions for those courses.
Is there an observable difference in an ITs utility and marketability. Yes, but its based on small sample size. There just arent a lot of ITs with QTLS that are doing so with the intent of perusing IE.
Is there an appreciation or deprecation in IT performance? No, usually by the time a DT, regardless of training foundation enters IE, their experience whether from design or evolution is consistent with accepted practices of meds/peds.
Id much rather have to defend the area and degree of content preparation than that of meds/peds. It just comes down to "can the IT get it done", at that level of determination a lot of roads lead to the same destination. Ive known ITs that were naturals, no formal training at all, who I would rather have in a classroom then some highly educated ITs who cant seem to teach their way out of a book.
The situation in the US is more turbulent. Among the most significant issues are:
1) No common credentialing authority. Each state credentials and licenses educators individually. Nothing like the TCL exists on the national level in the US.
2) No standard or uniform credential. States may offer multiple levels of credentials that all authorize instructional services. Nothing like QTS exists in the US as a whole.
3) Different credentials are mandated/required for leadership. While the UK has the NPQ, this isnt a compulsory requirement, neither is enforcement of the head teacher standards.
4) No mandated central repository for disciplinary actions. A DT may hold multiple credentials and have sanctions on one license without effecting the others.
The gold standard of IE credentialing in the US is California:
1) They have high standards. In addition to a full EPP/ITT program that includes field work, DTs must complete a process similar to induction either provided by am employing DS/IS or the DT must complete it academically through a Uni. It essentially makes the system of credentialing a two year process.
2) WASC accreditation is heavily and almost exclusively influenced to the point of design by CA standards. WASC standards are predominate in IE, and even in regions that are accredited by other regional bodies, they all respect WASC.
3) Due to size CA (and TX) essentially dictate the writing, design and content of textbooks for use in the US. As such CA curriculum is a defacto US curriculum. You just cant escape it, States rarely if ever allocate limited education resources to the writing of a specific textbook. In the cases they do, its almost always a state history or culture text.
4) CC, Aero, and for all practical purposes NGSS standards were all either an adaptation of or heavily influenced (dictated) by CA curriculum and standards.
That standard and influence isnt common in other states, and its difficult to find reciprocity and consensus despite their being agreements among states on mutual recognition (based heavily upon the NASDTEC Interstate Agreement).
In very broad generalities:
1) Traditionally trained DTs who completed their EPP/ITT through academic study and clinical field work at accredited tertiary institutions are generally accepted as equivalent and have the fewest issues of recognition within the US. If you went to X University/College and completed a course of study leading to bachelors degree and either major, minor, or concentration in professional education that resulted in a state issued credential, you can essentially go to any other state or territory and receive some form of credential to teach.
2) Of those traditionally trained the difference among state grades/levels of credential differ by years of previous experience and possibly having obtained an advance degree.
3) Of the largest disagreement and variance in the recognition of educator credentials are those obtained by ACP (Alternative Certification Programs) which can range from a post-back (5th year or 1 year) Uni EPP/ITT program to those that very closely resemble apprenticeships.
4) Of highly controversial nature are the pathways that do not require EPP/ITT programs at all, commonly referred to as "test based" programs.
5) There is an entirely option and voluntary program called the NBPTS (National Board for Professional Teacher Standards) this organization offers credentials to current DTs/ITs taht is almost exclusively a portfolio based demonstrations of meds/peds and content proficiency. A DT with such a credential often is provided an expedited and easier pathway to applying for a state credential trough reciprocity.
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jake290788
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:02 pm
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
Thanks again for the replies to this post. I have looked into the PGCEi. My situation is that I kind of fell into teaching. I worked as a TA to get a feel for it and then worked as an unqualified teacher in an academy school in London for two years. I then decided that I wanted to try my luck abroad as my quality of life, in London on an unqualified teacher's salary, just wasn't cutting it for various reasons. Now, while I am still fairly inexperienced compared to some, I am confident in my ability and potential as a teacher. However, I just feel I need some sort of qualification under my belt because right now if somebody asks if I am qualified then all I can refer to is a few years of experience. I don't want to seem like I am just being lazy and avoiding the hard work of gaining an academic qualification like a PGCE, I would just prefer to save the thousands of pounds and continue gaining further experience in my current position. The reason I have asked about the Diploma in Teaching and Training is that it is both cheaper than the PGCEi and can qualify you for QTLS.
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jake290788
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:02 pm
Re: Level 5 Diploma in Education and Training QTLS. Worth it
Sorry, *Diploma in Education and Training.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @shadylane
>
> I dont know which credentials you are referring too? A DT who holds QTLS and is a member of the SfE is licensed to provide instructional services in maintained DSs in England including BSOs and further, is exempt from induction. Do I agree with that from a professional standpoint, no.
I wasn't really talking about the values of these streams. Just that many of those that do the hiring prefer a PGCE or B. Ed with QTS + NQT year. Many of those that don't care either don't have much choice or would happily hire unqualified staff anyway.
> @shadylane
>
> I dont know which credentials you are referring too? A DT who holds QTLS and is a member of the SfE is licensed to provide instructional services in maintained DSs in England including BSOs and further, is exempt from induction. Do I agree with that from a professional standpoint, no.
I wasn't really talking about the values of these streams. Just that many of those that do the hiring prefer a PGCE or B. Ed with QTS + NQT year. Many of those that don't care either don't have much choice or would happily hire unqualified staff anyway.