Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

reisgio
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by reisgio »

I have come out of self-imposed exile to respond to the original poster. Let me put it to you like this: You have a slave mindset. You must change it immediately. Feel guilty? Obscene. The fact that so many posters are even engaging with you on this and telling you to say nothing is amazing and pathetic all at once. SLAVES EVERYONE.
Overhere
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by Overhere »

Ask for it. In the end what do you have to lose, it's not like you're getting anything now.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@McQwaid

@Sid is an administrator and an apologist for them. What their rational would be for half of a stipend is bunk (only half and only maybe), your coordinating, the idea there are no students enrolled is nonsense, its just more leadership fear mongering and smoke and mirrors.

I agree with @Sid that for leadership spousal connected flights isnt common. Leadership has more flexibility in negotiating a contract (especially at the senior and executive level). However, what it sounds like is that youre on a faculty (IT) contract with TLR for the coordinator, and the IS gets to define those benefits as they see fit.

@Sid

Yeah we disagree.
Walter
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by Walter »

“Leadership fear-mongering and smoke and mirrors…” Ah Dave you’re so unoriginal. How many times have you used that expression in your 5600 posts? Incidentally, 5,600 posts out of 41,000 total is a pretty generous helping of your wisdom. I'm very grateful.
And then we have Reisgio and his call to end the slave mindset of forum contributors. Reminded me of Shelley. I love Shelley. Do you remember his call to the English working poor to overthrow their oppressors:
Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:
Ye are many—they are few!"

If I don’t look at ISR for a few weeks, I always get such a lift when I come back.

As for the original question, I can only say that, as an administrator traveling to my new post with a baby, I didn’t get an extra seat. Nor would I have wanted one. My wife and I got bulkhead seats with a bassinet for the infant. Most of the time my little girl slept; when she didn’t, she fed or cried. In which case we held her. What would I have done with an extra seat? Propped her up so she could watch the movie? Looking at the miles you are flying, I guess you are in Asia. In which case make sure you fly with an Asian airline rather than Delta or American or United (Dave is VERY fond of United). I’m pretty sure you’ll be well treated if you do.

Schools have different rules for accompanying spouse travel. We would pay for the flight back (and grant full medical benefits) for a spouse who was added to the contract while in country. Other schools wouldn't. That’s their choice. Don’t believe this is a problem that only pertains to the world of international education. Every type of international institution does these things differently. Some of the expats in international business have appalling contracts in terms of health insurance or visas for dependents or arrangements for home travel or what happens to schooling in the event of the death of the employee. Some Embassies pay 100% tuition costs of dependent children; some pay 10%. Why would you think for a moment that all schools should handle all these things in the same way? So here’s a rule for everyone: RTFC. Three of the words are “Read” “The” “Contract”. If you end up getting more benefits than were outlined in the contract, you’ve been very lucky.

I can also understand why different schools look differently on the role of – say – an IB Coordinator who is setting up a program but has no students in her care versus an IB Coordinator who is looking after the learning of 200 students in Grades 11 and 12. What isn’t fair or responsible on the part of the school is that any supposed stipend or supplementary benefit wasn’t sorted out before the contract was issued.

So my advice to the poster is ask by all means, but my guess is that you’re better off constructing a request for special consideration about the stipend rather than making any kind of demand for a fully paid seat for a baby.
Walter
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by Walter »

@Dave I'm so sorry but I've traduced you. You have 6400 posts out of 41,000. Jolly well done!
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

No one I know is fond of United. Anyone have a different view?

I dont know of any multi nationals or embassy expats who are on horrible contracts.
What ISs would do and how they differ is not relevant to what they SHOULD be doing. Too many ISs both ownership and leadership think they should be praised for doing the things they are supposed to do.

More bunk and smoke and mirrors, its called misdirection. You can not depend on a contract to be any guarantee of anything, almost every contract references other documents that fall under the heading of "policy" and these policies can be ignored, rewritten, dissolved, and added to at the whim of ownership. Even your contract and its most basic tenants, (such as how long the contract is for) can be changed and modified. What is an IT going to do about it if they are somewhere like the ME or Asia. If leadership needs to extend the contract two weeks, what are you going to do say no? Sure if your leaving, buy your own flights, leave behind salary and any bonuses, and then your reference will reflect negatively whatever leadership wants it to.

Of course @Walter can understand why one coordinators doing the same job and same title should be compensated differently. An HL/AP maths IT can be argued does more and has more value than a PHE IT, they should pay them differently as well. Leadership can "see anything as reasonable" if it benefits them.

@McQwaid

Its of no relevance what @Walter has or would have or prefer. What matters is that youd prefer, desire and want a separate and individual seat. What @Walter thinks is immaterial to what you want.

More bunk, it was sorted out before hand its in the policy and says such as you quoted it. The IS is just at the end of the contract and saying no because your leaving and they dont have any incentive to give it to you. You arent going to pull a runner so they dont have a problem.

More bunk the difference between an infant lap seat and an infant full seat fare is a few hundred, and not anything near the value of the stipend. Ask for the seat and then ask for the stipend, why do you have to choose one or the other.

@Walter

When they become less true. You dont know anything, including how to recognize numbers, its 6410.
nathan61
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by nathan61 »

An infant in the lap costs a maximum of 10% the price of a seat, and you generally get some extra checked and carry on luggage.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@nathan61

10% is pretty much average, but a few airlines are as high as 33%. An infant seat on average is 75% of the adult fair, but full fare is required on almost as many carriers. All that aside full fare on a one way flight is going to be very difficult to come close too the lost stipend of $4000.
McQwaid
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by McQwaid »

Thank you everyone for the great feedback. The creative conflict on the issue is also very informative. I pretty know where I contextually stand on the issue now - thanks to you :) I'm gonna keep my requests balanced and reserve my energy efficiently.

As for the stipend - yeah, that's actually a big $8000 USD + the 1000 Spouse travel credit each year = 10,000 USD after two years that my 2 IB Coordinator colleagues have that I don't. And I was there for every meeting and accreditation prep processs they did. They only have 30 students each so the "running/active program" thing really doesn't fly. Oh well, I learned a lot.

A few months ago my Principal informed me that the Board agreed to give me "$1000-1500" for my DP Authorization work if we get the DP Authorization. I was disappointed and I prepared a grievance letter for the Board about the whole issue, and then asked that I be compensated half what the other IB Coordinators get. I emailed it to the Principal first, and he came back and told me he emailed it to them for me and that the new arrangement is "$2000-3000" if we get the DP Authorization. I wasn't cc'd the email correspondence with the board (wink wink:) Pretty big number range there too ;)

So, I guess if they don't like the new safety gas valves in the new science lab, I don't get the money. Or if IBO thinks the school doesn't have the resources and enough money to support the program, I don't get anything. I see these as item that I certainly do not have any control over.

Me - "aside form the DP Coordination, what about my "leadership team" membership? All those meetings I have to go and participate in with the other 2 coordinators? I even started school a week early with the other coordinators? And what about all those WASC accreditation meetings I had to attend? And all that weekend work marketing the IB DP Program? All the MYP Grade 10 DP student guidance/counseling? What about all this?

Principal - "right, yeah, you make a point, I wasn't here last year when all this was negotiated (stone face silence)"

Me - "yeah, I don't recall any negotiation though"

;)
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@McQwaid

Yeah you got screwed, your doing the same job as your colleagues are, and your leadership is exactly like the thieving, fear mongering, smoke and mirrors leadership that @Sid and @Walter are apologists for. They owe you some major coin, for proper services rendered and they are just going to leave you holding your hand out, because they dont have to give you anything and they know it, and your principal is just trying to keep you from getting angry and walking.
sid
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by sid »

McQwaid, it's unfortunate that your innocent and perfectly decent question pulled you into all this palaver.
I'm sorry that your school has treated you so poorly over the coordinator work. You deserve to be paid, though at this point I have my doubts that the school will do the right thing. Fingers crossed that you get the authorization and the school pays you a nice decent lump of cash.
Keep your head up, and use your hard-won experience to your advantage. You now have DP Coordinator to add to your resume, which is very valuable in a job search. Next time you're offered a leadership role, read the fine print and do the due diligence, so all these questions are settled in advance. Be sure that you're happy with what you're offered, and don't accept a post until you are. It's always easier to get it in writing first than to try to negotiate once you've already done the work.
I don't know about "slave mentalities" and "apologists". I believe that people are generally doing the best they can. That includes leadership and teachers. As a leader, I can see lots of sides to the questions you raised. A lot of the issues could have been avoided with if leadership had been more clear and proactive - a policy on flights and babies, a written agreement on your duties and remuneration for coordinating, and making sure that you were clear, before you accepted the post, on how your duties and remuneration compared to other coordinators. If that had all been done, you wouldn't be wondering now what you should get, and hopefully you wouldn't be feeling so used. So shame on leadership for not getting their ducks in a row. I do believe, as mentioned before, that teachers have a responsibility to read the contract before they sign (at a minimum), BUT I also recognize that teachers do not know what they do not know, and sometimes I have to make sure that an incoming teacher knows certain pertinent facts. It avoids unhappiness and unpleasantness later. As a school leader, I should have a better idea than teachers do of the ins and outs of the school and contracts, and I should be able to use my knowledge to make a reasonable guess as to what you need to know before I let you sign.
I've been in the position of needing to appoint someone to do real work, but not being able to pay them (or to pay them as much as the work was worth). Sometimes it happens. Honesty and good will go a long way. My offer is along the lines of "The school needs a coordinator to set up the DP. You'll be doing a lot of paperwork, attending a lot of meetings. For the moment, the position is unpaid. Once you achieve authorization, there'll be a bonus of $y, and once there are students in the program, there'll be a stipend of $q. You also will be released from [whatever class or duties], starting as soon as you take the post." It gives you fair notice of what to expect, and you have the info you need to make a decision. I've had people say yes, and people say no, but none of the yesses ever came back later to complain they were unfairly treated. Your admin could have handled your case better.
I feel for your current principal (though not as much as I feel for you - he took on the leadership job, so he needs to have big shoulders). If I understand correctly, some previous person appointed you without real clarity/fairness, and worked the situation so that you weren't getting paid or getting benefits. That person is now gone? And your current principal is stuck with the leftovers of that questionable maneuver. In a school that's on a shoestring budget. From what you've described, he knows you're right. Reading between the lines, he's powerless to fix it. If he's a smart guy, he's already lining up ducks to make sure this kind of thing doesn't keep happening.
Fingers crossed that everything works out really nicely for you!
McQwaid
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by McQwaid »

@Sid

I know exactly what your saying Sid. I agree. Thanks.

To be more clear.... I signed a teaching faculty contract for MYP through Search Associates. Then, I received an email a day or two later saying that "I put you down as the DP Coordinator, I hope you don't mind" (no question mark included in the grammar there;) He did mention in the contract that he can't pay the stipend until the program is running and he sees it as one 50 minute block per week filling out the application, with more time given the second year" ( more time given to me for this or more time from me given towards this? LOL) Anyways, it turned out to be about 10+ per week. Perhaps he really didn't know how much work was involved in setting up an IB DP program? and nor did I for that matter- turned out it's not just "an Application". Plus, the new Principal came in organizing the coordinators as if we all had the same arrangement - example: " hey guys, can we start a week early"! that sorta thing. The whole thing went way out of the context I original saw. Just kinda happened really, I don't think it was sinisterly masterminded - at least I hope not. But there is a chance to right a now known wrong and that opportunity isn't really being met appropriately IMO.
Walter
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by Walter »

Oh my, I’ve aroused the ire of Senator Ted as well as Dave. There is a bit of a bromance going on there, so I shouldn’t be surprised.
As for the OP’s question, I still think you’re wasting time and breath asking for a separate seat for an infant. I certainly wouldn’t give it you, and I’m notoriously generous. I think you can construct a strong argument for at least a healthy proportion of a coordinator’s stipend, but I wouldn’t do this in the guise of a “Grievance” that went to the Board. Knowing how (some) Board Members think, this would almost certainly be a mistake. Writing a reasoned letter of appeal to your administrators' sense of fairness is more likely to pay off than an accusation or a threat. The fact is that you are partly to blame in all this. You should have established the terms and conditions of your service before you took on the role. Because there is nothing in writing, you are appealing to the school's sense of obligation, rather than requiring adherence to the wording of a contract. You won’t make this mistake again.
Ted and Dave, stay calm, my sweets. If you’re good, I’ll quote some more poetry.
McQwaid
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Re: Return Flight Expectation for Infant dependent

Post by McQwaid »

Thanks again folks. The tickets are already bought. It's all "Baby On Lap" - I didn't request a baby seat. Let's see how the Bulkhead $100 bassinet seat fees go over when I submit my tickets for refunding next month. That should be fun. I paid with my own credit card - the school does not buy the tickets for you and there isn't fixed guideline on this. I went out of my way and on my initiative to make sure I was buying a fair ticket first. I know some people who would have just bought what they wanted and submitted the whole thing for reimbursement without a word of prior consideration.

The stipend issue is closed. Has been so for many weeks. I wrote a strong grievance letter and received a minimalist response. I'm fine with that. Everyone knows what's what, especially me ;)

Peace out and thanks again
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