PsyGuy,
Wow, thanks for the detailed reply yet again, I appreciate all the info. I contacted my advisor/mentor at the charter school and am awaiting a reply, so hopefully I'll have more info soon. I do have just a few more follow-up questions if you don't mind.
1. What does TCL mean? Why would there be uncertainty as to whether the
2. With the NJ CE option, you mentioned the Praxis, which I assume refers to the middle school PLT (5623). I never bothered looking at other state's requirements until now, but on the NJ section of the Praxis site I don't see any PLTs listed. Is it just an error of omission by the site or am I missing something?
3. Assuming it's the PLT, do I have to complete it before the workshop, before getting the CE, or some other deadline?
"If you get an IS appointment as long as its an EP program and accredited by or applying for accreditation from someone than you dont need a field experience placement you can use the job you have, and steal to stone a bottom tier IS is going to be vastly better than a NY charter."
From the above quote, it seems like you don't share the same concerns as Thames Pirate about the consequences of teaching at a bottom-tier IS. Maybe this is too broad a question, but suppose I did 2 years at a complete trainwreck of an IS vs. 2 years at a DS: what are the practical differences going forward from that point in terms of opportunities? (assume that I don't pull a runner regardless of how bad the IS is)
I know there's a huge amount of variance when it comes to 3rd-tier schools, what I'm not so sure about is to what extent that variance translates to the opportunities that follow.
Worried about resume, job, to stay or go, and more...
Reply
@donteven
1) TCL = Teachers College of Leadership, short for National College for Teaching and Leadership. They are the agency that manages and maintains the QTS register in England.
2) No it refers to "Middle School Mathematics" (5169) exam, NJ doesnt require the PLT (meds/peds) only the specific subject matter tests (plus core academic skills).
3) Its not, and you can complete the PRAXIS exams and 24 hour course in any order, though individual programs may have different requirements. As far as deadlines go, NJ is in the process of implementing changes that were approved some time ago, the 2017/2018 year will have new requirements that will effect CE holders and candidates.
I actually agree with @Thames Pirate in this case. The advice is relative to the comparison of the experiences. The forum consensus is that 2 years post certification in DE is better preparation that IE. In brief, ISs are not generally resourced to provide an intern IT the mentoring, resources and room to grow that a DS will. Its relative if you had an appointment at Manhattan Prep to do your field work in compared to the bottom third tier, staying in DE is the way to go. You arent however, Charters tend to be the worst of the worst, the DSs where the worst students go (for a variety of reasons), and in New York this kind of experience is likely to be worstest of the worst, worse. Even a bottom scrape the barrel IS in a hardship location is going to be far better. You wont have to worry about being shoot, mugged, robbed, assaulted in IE (at least by the students).
This DS is probably a train wreck on a train wreck in terms of experience. It would be like comparing a train wreck you watched (IE) too a train wreck you are on and hitting a rotting octopus storage tank (NY Charter DS). If you survived two years at this charter without screaming into the night as you run dodging the hail of small arms fire and actually made a difference in your students lives in some measurable way, you can probably talk that up with some spin that you can handle anything. If you can do that you can handle any inconvenience or frustration OS life might throw at you. However, most of the experience will be inapplicable to IE. You dont have to earn your students respect in IE, you have it walking into the door, your going to get a significant degree of obedience, and deference that comes with being an IT. The bottom tier IS is going to give you a more applicable experience of how IE and OS life works, but your going to likely be struggling on your own, at least you wont be dodging bullets or having to motivate your students to do the simplest of things.
Again, change that NY charter to something else and the entire scenario easily changes.
1) TCL = Teachers College of Leadership, short for National College for Teaching and Leadership. They are the agency that manages and maintains the QTS register in England.
2) No it refers to "Middle School Mathematics" (5169) exam, NJ doesnt require the PLT (meds/peds) only the specific subject matter tests (plus core academic skills).
3) Its not, and you can complete the PRAXIS exams and 24 hour course in any order, though individual programs may have different requirements. As far as deadlines go, NJ is in the process of implementing changes that were approved some time ago, the 2017/2018 year will have new requirements that will effect CE holders and candidates.
I actually agree with @Thames Pirate in this case. The advice is relative to the comparison of the experiences. The forum consensus is that 2 years post certification in DE is better preparation that IE. In brief, ISs are not generally resourced to provide an intern IT the mentoring, resources and room to grow that a DS will. Its relative if you had an appointment at Manhattan Prep to do your field work in compared to the bottom third tier, staying in DE is the way to go. You arent however, Charters tend to be the worst of the worst, the DSs where the worst students go (for a variety of reasons), and in New York this kind of experience is likely to be worstest of the worst, worse. Even a bottom scrape the barrel IS in a hardship location is going to be far better. You wont have to worry about being shoot, mugged, robbed, assaulted in IE (at least by the students).
This DS is probably a train wreck on a train wreck in terms of experience. It would be like comparing a train wreck you watched (IE) too a train wreck you are on and hitting a rotting octopus storage tank (NY Charter DS). If you survived two years at this charter without screaming into the night as you run dodging the hail of small arms fire and actually made a difference in your students lives in some measurable way, you can probably talk that up with some spin that you can handle anything. If you can do that you can handle any inconvenience or frustration OS life might throw at you. However, most of the experience will be inapplicable to IE. You dont have to earn your students respect in IE, you have it walking into the door, your going to get a significant degree of obedience, and deference that comes with being an IT. The bottom tier IS is going to give you a more applicable experience of how IE and OS life works, but your going to likely be struggling on your own, at least you wont be dodging bullets or having to motivate your students to do the simplest of things.
Again, change that NY charter to something else and the entire scenario easily changes.
Re: Worried about resume, job, to stay or go, and more...
Interesting. So I would have to re-take the 5169? I thought that once I took those I can request to have the scores forwarded to any education institution/department?
Regarding the NYC Charter / bottom-tier IS comparison:
Even though I'm doing my field experience at the charter, that doesn't mean I necessarily have to pick up a job there in January once I complete the program, right? I get that it's the most convenient/obvious transition, but wouldn't I be able to find a public school opening in January after I'm completely certified?
Regardless, let's assume the following: If I do 2 (or 1.5 rather) years at the charter, I will be great at dodging bullets and at least halfway decent at my job (for a new teacher). If I go to a bottom-tier IS, I will not pull a runner and do what I reasonably can with the available resources.
If my goal is to eventually move to a good 1st-tier school in CSA or East Asia, is either starting point appreciably better than the other? Suppose I also pick up a HS Math certificate along the way.
Regarding the NYC Charter / bottom-tier IS comparison:
Even though I'm doing my field experience at the charter, that doesn't mean I necessarily have to pick up a job there in January once I complete the program, right? I get that it's the most convenient/obvious transition, but wouldn't I be able to find a public school opening in January after I'm completely certified?
Regardless, let's assume the following: If I do 2 (or 1.5 rather) years at the charter, I will be great at dodging bullets and at least halfway decent at my job (for a new teacher). If I go to a bottom-tier IS, I will not pull a runner and do what I reasonably can with the available resources.
If my goal is to eventually move to a good 1st-tier school in CSA or East Asia, is either starting point appreciably better than the other? Suppose I also pick up a HS Math certificate along the way.
Reply
@idonteven
No you wouldnt have to retake the 5169 exam for middle school (assuming your score was high enough for NJ). You wouldnt have to take the PLT (5623) exam at all for NJ. Some agencies have a expiration on PRAXIS scores.
It depends on the contract, I would generally say no, but they might be expecting you to continue in the position, and you might have a contract that obligates you to complete the rest of the term or year. It would be a good idea to discuss these with your charter, as even without a contract they might have expectations and you dont want to sour the relationship.
You may find a DS in January, you may not, my crystal ball is in the shop so i cant really say. Maths is generally in high demand, but the DSs your going to find vacancies at arent going to be much better than a charter. Manhattan Prep and UNIS arent going to come knocking on your door with your resume.
These types of questions are the most difficult, because they assume you can control for all other variables, and ignore opportunity factors. The definition and 'quality' of the term "appreciable" further complicates the issue. On straight metrics in this specific scenario given all other variables are equal or insignificant, and ignoring opportunity potential, IE edges out DE.
The upper secondary maths credential further increases the utility of IE.
No you wouldnt have to retake the 5169 exam for middle school (assuming your score was high enough for NJ). You wouldnt have to take the PLT (5623) exam at all for NJ. Some agencies have a expiration on PRAXIS scores.
It depends on the contract, I would generally say no, but they might be expecting you to continue in the position, and you might have a contract that obligates you to complete the rest of the term or year. It would be a good idea to discuss these with your charter, as even without a contract they might have expectations and you dont want to sour the relationship.
You may find a DS in January, you may not, my crystal ball is in the shop so i cant really say. Maths is generally in high demand, but the DSs your going to find vacancies at arent going to be much better than a charter. Manhattan Prep and UNIS arent going to come knocking on your door with your resume.
These types of questions are the most difficult, because they assume you can control for all other variables, and ignore opportunity factors. The definition and 'quality' of the term "appreciable" further complicates the issue. On straight metrics in this specific scenario given all other variables are equal or insignificant, and ignoring opportunity potential, IE edges out DE.
The upper secondary maths credential further increases the utility of IE.