So, I've been pondering this for a bit...
Let's say you get an international school job. Will most countries banks offer credit cards to IT's?
If the answer to the first question is yes, is there anything to stop this IT from maxing out the card a few weeks before their contract ends?
Said IT wouldn't care much about their credit rating getting trashed in the host country since well, they're moving to a new place anyway. I would imagine most card companies are just going to write off the loss once they figure out the IT has moved abroad and left no forwarding address.
Any downsides to this? All hypothetically speaking, of course...
Credit cards abroad?
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global_nomad
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 pm
Re: Credit cards abroad?
Joe- In the foreign country where I am living as an expat, they won't let those with a "temporary" ID apply for credit cards (the banks won't accept your application). All foreigners with work visas have temporary ID's issued that need to be renewed yearly (after the work visa has been renewed). So unless you get permanent residency, you can't get a local credit card here. I do hear there are ways around that like buying property though.
Re: Credit cards abroad?
I have a worked in a country where the exit visa included demonstrating that you had no outstanding debts with businesses in the country. So any pending government debts (unpaid traffic tickets or fines), phone/utility bills, and any lines of credit with local banks all had to be zeroed out before exit paperwork was granted. I'm sure that some folks managed to get out without paying, but it was an extra preventative hurdle.
Re: Credit cards abroad?
OK, let's assume our IT is not and never will be working in the ME (and so there are no 'final exit' visas, you can just leave whenever you want).
Seems like potentially a nice way to get a little summer bonus every few years - if there's places outside the ME that issue credit cards to foreigners. All hypothetical of course...
Seems like potentially a nice way to get a little summer bonus every few years - if there's places outside the ME that issue credit cards to foreigners. All hypothetical of course...
Re: Credit cards abroad?
Living in China and Saudi, with a great exchange rate and a good US credit card we didn't need a local credit card. In our current country, the exchange rate is not great and we do have a credit card from a national bank...all teachers do and we use it much more because we want our spending to stay in country as much as possible so we don't incur rate change fees. The idea of a "foreign" credit card is a country by country issue. We didn't use them before because we didn't need to, and now that we do, it was easy to get.
ME countries that have exit visas do require you to have all your ducks in a row before they'll give you the exit visa. Watching people exit our current country, there are numerous visits to different offices to make sure you don't have anything hanging when you leave. I expect that doing a runner after racking up a bill might be harder than you think.
ME countries that have exit visas do require you to have all your ducks in a row before they'll give you the exit visa. Watching people exit our current country, there are numerous visits to different offices to make sure you don't have anything hanging when you leave. I expect that doing a runner after racking up a bill might be harder than you think.
Re: Credit cards abroad?
Well, other than the obvious ethical and legal considerations...
As stated before, it is common for teachers to be able to get a local credit card. Not everywhere, but common enough. To do it, like opening any banking account, you have to establish your identity, by providing a copy of your passport, residence/work visa and identifying your employer. In short, the bank will have a pretty good handle on who you are and how to find you.
Also as above, some countries have legal requirements in place that require you to demonstrate you have cleared all debts before you are allowed to exit the country on a cancelled/expired visa. (Yes, some will point out that you could get around this by not cancelling the visa, just leaving, but since it's your employer who does the cancelling, that's not an option unless you also intend to abscond on your job.)
Some countries also have legal requirements, or common arrangements, that your employer has to notify your bank when they are getting ready to cancel your visa. Banks commonly cut off your credit at that point, which could be several months before you leave, and they start working hard to collect whatever is owed.
Even without the legal requirements, it's pretty easy and also common for a bank to spend some time looking for you if you run off. First off, they contact your school. Your school probably knows where you have gone, plus your address and contact details in your home country, and they may also have kept back some money from your final paycheck to use in exactly such cases. Schools usually cooperate pretty willingly since this sort of bad behavior from one teacher could make it hard for all future teachers to get bank accounts and credit cards. So the school will hand over whatever money they have left for you, and then the bank and/or the school will start calling your mom's house back home, and your new school, explaining exactly why they are looking for you. Pretty embarrassing. Not a great start to a new job.
The bank can also legally pursue you around the globe. If it's enough money, they will use a credit agency in whatever country to chase it down. Even if they don't succeed, it will end up on your home country credit record, very damaging someday when you want a mortgage.
And unpaid debts are not just civil matters in many countries, but criminal ones. Unlike the UK or the US, you could in theory end up in jail.
What I've said above makes it sound like this happens often, and actually it does not. The vast majority of IT are lovely, ethical people who don't skip out on debts. I've only seen this a couple of times personally in over 20 years on the circuit, and I've heard stories as well, but really it's a rarity.
As stated before, it is common for teachers to be able to get a local credit card. Not everywhere, but common enough. To do it, like opening any banking account, you have to establish your identity, by providing a copy of your passport, residence/work visa and identifying your employer. In short, the bank will have a pretty good handle on who you are and how to find you.
Also as above, some countries have legal requirements in place that require you to demonstrate you have cleared all debts before you are allowed to exit the country on a cancelled/expired visa. (Yes, some will point out that you could get around this by not cancelling the visa, just leaving, but since it's your employer who does the cancelling, that's not an option unless you also intend to abscond on your job.)
Some countries also have legal requirements, or common arrangements, that your employer has to notify your bank when they are getting ready to cancel your visa. Banks commonly cut off your credit at that point, which could be several months before you leave, and they start working hard to collect whatever is owed.
Even without the legal requirements, it's pretty easy and also common for a bank to spend some time looking for you if you run off. First off, they contact your school. Your school probably knows where you have gone, plus your address and contact details in your home country, and they may also have kept back some money from your final paycheck to use in exactly such cases. Schools usually cooperate pretty willingly since this sort of bad behavior from one teacher could make it hard for all future teachers to get bank accounts and credit cards. So the school will hand over whatever money they have left for you, and then the bank and/or the school will start calling your mom's house back home, and your new school, explaining exactly why they are looking for you. Pretty embarrassing. Not a great start to a new job.
The bank can also legally pursue you around the globe. If it's enough money, they will use a credit agency in whatever country to chase it down. Even if they don't succeed, it will end up on your home country credit record, very damaging someday when you want a mortgage.
And unpaid debts are not just civil matters in many countries, but criminal ones. Unlike the UK or the US, you could in theory end up in jail.
What I've said above makes it sound like this happens often, and actually it does not. The vast majority of IT are lovely, ethical people who don't skip out on debts. I've only seen this a couple of times personally in over 20 years on the circuit, and I've heard stories as well, but really it's a rarity.
Response
1) Yes, local banks will at certain points that differ from region to region offer bank/credit cards (CC). Its harder in some regions, often in these regions the requirement is you have PR as opposed to a temporary residence. These difficulties may be overcome by things such as guarantees (often from a business or local resident) who is essentially accepting co-responsability. In other regions its quite easy very early to qualify and obtain a CC. Your orientation period will often have a station where you obtain your local banking account and you may be offered a CC as early as that point. Sometimes with substantial credit limits (typically between 1K and 10K).
2) There are in some instances controls such a plan. Much of what @Sid described is not uncommon. Even if its not a formal policy, ISs will often notify the IS bank that you will be departing. However, this isnt as effective with banks or institutions that the IS doesnt know about or isnt aware of. There are varying levels of regulatory control as well in parts of the ME you require an exit visa to leave and financial clearance is a major issue of this process. There are ITs that have been stuck in the ME without employment and cant leave because they cant pay their CC bills. If this is your plan then your best approach would be to not give notice, and for all intent purposes you are just going on end of year holiday, and just not come back.
In regard to @Sids comments:
1) Its true your bank will likely have sufficient information on you to find out at least where your HOR is, and they are likely to be very cooperative.
2) If an IS notifies the bank that your visa is being canceled, they will likely cut off your credit line, though not necessarily, at the very least they would want to have a conversation with you regarding your future plans. A lot of expats have foreign CC accounts.
3) Strongly disagree with @Sid, a bank isnt going to spend a lot of time going after an expat foreigner that has left, with no intent to return.
4) the contact details is easily avoided, ISs almost never send anything by post or telephone. They may have that information but its easy enough to use a local post office or university as an address and a virtual phone number. Which is the IS wants to pass on to the bank is going to lead nowhere. They arent likely to ever send you anything by post anyway. Why youd give the contact info of your parents is just crazy talk.
5) ISs can and do withhold some portion of your salary for final bills. The solution is just to go on holiday summer term, and not come back, and this policy is relatively easy to discover well in advance. Youc an of course also plan to spend more in credit than the IS withholds.
6) Strongly disagree with @Sid, they can pursue legal action against you but in the vast majority of cases its not going to mean anything. They have to file civil suite and to do that they have to execute service on you, which isnt going to be successful. Its not going to end up on any credit report, your credit profile and identifier doesnt cross borders.
7) Its true that in some regions its a criminal offense to abscond on debt. Again, though they would have to convince a prosecutor to issue a warrant, then arrange to locate you, than extradite you and then actually provide you judicial process, which doesnt happen once you are gone.
8) It happens more often than @Sid eludes to.
The main disadvantages are that many of the regional multinational banks do cross borders, and you will have a negative account file at those and partner banks. The other downside is that returning at some point in the future could have serious consequences.
The advantages are of course you get an impromptu "debarkation bonus" with very little risk of any consequences.
2) There are in some instances controls such a plan. Much of what @Sid described is not uncommon. Even if its not a formal policy, ISs will often notify the IS bank that you will be departing. However, this isnt as effective with banks or institutions that the IS doesnt know about or isnt aware of. There are varying levels of regulatory control as well in parts of the ME you require an exit visa to leave and financial clearance is a major issue of this process. There are ITs that have been stuck in the ME without employment and cant leave because they cant pay their CC bills. If this is your plan then your best approach would be to not give notice, and for all intent purposes you are just going on end of year holiday, and just not come back.
In regard to @Sids comments:
1) Its true your bank will likely have sufficient information on you to find out at least where your HOR is, and they are likely to be very cooperative.
2) If an IS notifies the bank that your visa is being canceled, they will likely cut off your credit line, though not necessarily, at the very least they would want to have a conversation with you regarding your future plans. A lot of expats have foreign CC accounts.
3) Strongly disagree with @Sid, a bank isnt going to spend a lot of time going after an expat foreigner that has left, with no intent to return.
4) the contact details is easily avoided, ISs almost never send anything by post or telephone. They may have that information but its easy enough to use a local post office or university as an address and a virtual phone number. Which is the IS wants to pass on to the bank is going to lead nowhere. They arent likely to ever send you anything by post anyway. Why youd give the contact info of your parents is just crazy talk.
5) ISs can and do withhold some portion of your salary for final bills. The solution is just to go on holiday summer term, and not come back, and this policy is relatively easy to discover well in advance. Youc an of course also plan to spend more in credit than the IS withholds.
6) Strongly disagree with @Sid, they can pursue legal action against you but in the vast majority of cases its not going to mean anything. They have to file civil suite and to do that they have to execute service on you, which isnt going to be successful. Its not going to end up on any credit report, your credit profile and identifier doesnt cross borders.
7) Its true that in some regions its a criminal offense to abscond on debt. Again, though they would have to convince a prosecutor to issue a warrant, then arrange to locate you, than extradite you and then actually provide you judicial process, which doesnt happen once you are gone.
8) It happens more often than @Sid eludes to.
The main disadvantages are that many of the regional multinational banks do cross borders, and you will have a negative account file at those and partner banks. The other downside is that returning at some point in the future could have serious consequences.
The advantages are of course you get an impromptu "debarkation bonus" with very little risk of any consequences.
Re: Credit cards abroad?
Interesting and predictable claims from PG.
Just to mention, if you go with his suggested plan of not giving notice, you would by definition be giving up any end of service benefits. These can be sizable (up to one month's pay per year of service, shipping allowance, etc). After my last post, where I had stayed quite a while, my end of service payment was worth over 9 months salary in total. Hardly something I'd have walked away from for the "opportunity" to max out a credit card.
Just to mention, if you go with his suggested plan of not giving notice, you would by definition be giving up any end of service benefits. These can be sizable (up to one month's pay per year of service, shipping allowance, etc). After my last post, where I had stayed quite a while, my end of service payment was worth over 9 months salary in total. Hardly something I'd have walked away from for the "opportunity" to max out a credit card.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Credit cards abroad?
If I am understanding the question, Joe wants to get a UK card, max it out, leave the UK for good, then start fresh in his new country. Would his UK debt follow him to Thailand in the long run, or could he just get a Thai credit card on which he has good credit and walk away from his UK debt?
Aside from the ethical implications, I can honestly say that nobody knows at what point this will catch up to you. International agreements, both governmental and among institutions such as banks, change constantly. So do industry standards regarding credit histories, etc. Tread with caution.
Aside from the ethical implications, I can honestly say that nobody knows at what point this will catch up to you. International agreements, both governmental and among institutions such as banks, change constantly. So do industry standards regarding credit histories, etc. Tread with caution.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
You understand incorrectly. @Joe30 is in the UK and is inquiring in regards to obtaining a CC outside of the UK in a region he would be an IT such as Thailand and then leaving Thailand and going elsewhere and leaving the debt back in Thailand.
You understand incorrectly. @Joe30 is in the UK and is inquiring in regards to obtaining a CC outside of the UK in a region he would be an IT such as Thailand and then leaving Thailand and going elsewhere and leaving the debt back in Thailand.
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interteach
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
Re: Credit cards abroad?
Most US credit cards have far better terms than credit cards in other countries. You may be able to save a fair amount in the long term by keeping a US credit card open.
Plans change. Circumstances get altered. Returning to the US with a dismal credit score may not be what you want even if your bank has given up on you.
But if you just want to be a lowlife thief....
Plans change. Circumstances get altered. Returning to the US with a dismal credit score may not be what you want even if your bank has given up on you.
But if you just want to be a lowlife thief....
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interteach
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:25 pm
Re: Credit cards abroad?
So he's from the US but not from the US.
This is Psyxxx in a nutshell. Textbook.
This is Psyxxx in a nutshell. Textbook.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
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- Location: Japan
Re: Credit cards abroad?
interteach wrote:
> So he's from the US but not from the US.
>
> This is Psyxxx in a nutshell. Textbook.
=============
To be fair, I'm fairly sure it was a typo, but you have a point (it does epitomize the double-think, double-talk we all know and umm love, so well).
> So he's from the US but not from the US.
>
> This is Psyxxx in a nutshell. Textbook.
=============
To be fair, I'm fairly sure it was a typo, but you have a point (it does epitomize the double-think, double-talk we all know and umm love, so well).
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Credit cards abroad?
Joe30 - what's to keep you from maxing out your card and leaving?
In Saudi, you pay your card every month. At my bank, at least, you had to maintain an account balance sufficient enough to cover your credit card. You had to cancel your bank account before you left. Your company sponsors your iqama, and through that, they also are responsible for you. There are factors in place.
In my present country, you can also get a VISA card or a Union Pay card, but it is pay as you go. You load the card, the card works. No money, card no work. Simple.
Others' MMV
In Saudi, you pay your card every month. At my bank, at least, you had to maintain an account balance sufficient enough to cover your credit card. You had to cancel your bank account before you left. Your company sponsors your iqama, and through that, they also are responsible for you. There are factors in place.
In my present country, you can also get a VISA card or a Union Pay card, but it is pay as you go. You load the card, the card works. No money, card no work. Simple.
Others' MMV